What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[indigoaura]

Based on these reports I can't imagine anyone taking it and rating it a 8.5/10.

And this is where it gets tricky, because I want to take people at face value when they say they are getting typical MDMA. But, I can imagine how you would rate it at 8.5 out of 10 if all you have experienced were variations of Meh. But, most of the reports you posted talked about euphoria or enhanced touch, so that makes me think that they are getting magic stuff.

 

[Negi]

But, I can imagine how you would rate it at 8.5 out of 10 if all you have experienced were variations of Meh

This is useful, because based on the descriptions in here I had been assuming mehDMA to be be a complete turnoff even to a first timer. How would you compare mehDMA to just being on a decent dose of amphetamine or meth?

 

[indigoaura]

This is useful, because based on the descriptions in here I had been assuming mehDMA to be be a complete turnoff even to a first timer. How would you compare mehDMA to just being on a decent dose of amphetamine or meth?

I have never deliberately consumed meth or an amphetamine by itself, so I cannot say. I have had it mixed into pills before, but in unknown amounts.

I did cocaine once and found it boring, but cocaine was more rushy than MehDMA. There was more of that "pleasantly overwhelmed" feeling with cocaine.

I keep saying it, but based on my experiences MehDMA is most similar to low-dose xanax. But the main difference there is that if someone interrupted me or bothered me on xanax, I would not care at all. Everything is "whatever" on xanax. Whereas the MehDMA can turn somewhat hostile.

 

[OpiateKiller]

This is useful, because based on the descriptions in here I had been assuming mehDMA to be be a complete turnoff even to a first timer. How would you compare mehDMA to just being on a decent dose of amphetamine or meth?

MehMDMA is worse than amp or real meth. But I don't even find good meth enjoyable, it's just not my choice of drugs to be honest.

Real Magic MDMA, is quite like any other drug. The love and empathy and feeling of serenity is quite unlike any substance I've ever used. Meh lacks all these qualities

 

[user666]

I keep saying it, but based on my experiences MehDMA is most similar to low-dose xanax.

Xanax is a GABA agonist similarly to some alcohols.

I remember that when I was reading this entire thread, someone was writing obout sending a sample of Meh MDMA to one of these public drug labs and they have detected some kind of alcohol analog of the MDMA molecule (with an OH group) in it.
I think it was @G_Chem who replied to this post and noted that "-ol"s can be "sleepy".

Maybe it was one of these:
MDP2Pol
MDP1Pol
Piperonyl alcohol and Piperonal oxime
Alpha-Hydroxy-3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone (CID 13591054)
1,3-Benzodioxole-5-ethanol, alpha-methyl (CAS 6974-61-4)
N-Hydroxy-MDMA (a.k.a.: MDHMA)
... but I could be wrong and it was none of these.

Question to Chem Pros: How can MDMA be separated from its analogs containing an OH group, without running a column ?

I remember reading somewhere that the N-Hydroxy analogs are unstable and like to dimerize via the oxime and they fool the GC/MS analysys because they undergo pyrolytic disproportionation into the MDP2P oxime and the pure base (e.g. MDMA) through the simultaneous reduction of the other half of the oxime dimer.

 

[draculic acid69]

Xanax is a GABA agonist similarly to some alcohols.

I remember that when I was reading this entire thread, someone was writing obout sending a sample of Meh MDMA to one of these public drug labs and they have detected some kind of alcohol analog of the MDMA molecule (with an OH group) in it.
Maybe it was "MDP2Pol" or "N-Hydroxy-MDMA"* but I could be wrong...

Question to Chem Pros: How can MDMA be separated from its analogs containing an OH group, without running a column ?

* I remember reading somewhere that the N-Hydroxy analogs like to dimerize via the oxime and they fool the GC/MS analysys because they undergo pyrolytic disproportionation into the ketone oxime and the pure organic base (e.g. MDMA) by simultaneous reduction of the other half of the dimer.

By reducing the OH group the same way ephedrine is changed to the amphetamine. iodine/hypophosphorus
Lithium/ammonia
Or other reduction methods.
I'd think that a gcms would be able to tell the difference between the OH product and the non OH product but
I honestly don't think these testing facilities do much more than the bare minimum and they do that poorly.id think that an extra Oxygen molecule would be obvious.

 

[user666]

Cooking MDMA salt at 170ºC is a pretty good way to destroy it.

What about cooking MDMA HCl at 117ºC (@ 3mm) to evaporate MDP2Pol ?

 

[user666]

I'd think that a gcms would be able to tell the difference between the OH product and the non OH product but

Maybe not because the the GC/MS analysis is documented to be fooled by the unstable N-Hydroxy analogs which undergo pyrolytic disproportionation into the ketone oxime (e.g. MDP2P oxime) and the pure organic base (e.g. MDMA) by simultaneous reduction of the other half of the N-Hydroxy dimer.
So the MDMA would be produced in-situ from the N-Hydroxy dimer by its mere injection into the hot port of the GC. Such produced MDMA would fool the subsequent MS then, too.

I am sniffing around the "-ol"s because they have a history of affecting people's GABA receptors like the Xanax that @indigoaura mentioned.

 

[user666]

By reducing the OH group the same way ephedrine is changed to the amphetamine. iodine/hypophosphorus
Lithium/ammonia
Or other reduction methods.

But reacting-out the Hydroxyl would not necessarily leave us with MDMA.
I would rather just filter out/wash out any contaminant molecules that have an OH group sticking out.
Question to Pros: What compound likes to selectively attach to alcohols, i.e. the hydroxyl group while leaving the amino group and methylenedioxy bridge alone ?

MDMA does not have any hydroxyl groups sticking out so it should be differentiable by some kind of chemical or physical process.

 

[draculic acid69]

What about cooking MDMA HCl at 117ºC (@ 3mm) to evaporate MDP2Pol ?

An acetone or xylene wash would have gotten rid of that being as it's a liquid isn't it?

 

[jedimafia]

I've always believed cathione abuse lost the magic in myself and those around me. I came to that conclusion as to all the new comers taking Q-Dance pills and appearing/acting as i remember.

However their was this one batch of yellow Rolls Royces in 2015/16 that brought me right back and ticked all the right buttons. Surprisingly as I was selling them then, nobody else saw anything special about them. Not had anything to tickle my fancy since, even then everyone preferred Q-Dance!!! Is the general consensus being that MD isn't racemic any more? I've given up hope, it's about time I tried 5-MAPB

 

[draculic acid69]

But reacting-out the Hydroxyl would not necessarily leave us with MDMA.
I would rather just filter out/wash out any contaminant molecules that have an OH group sticking out.
Question to Pros: What compound likes to selectively attach to alcohols, i.e. the hydroxyl group while leaving the amino group and methylenedioxy bridge alone ?

MDMA does not have any hydroxyl groups sticking out so it should be differentiable by some kind of chemical or physical process.

"But reacting-out the Hydroxyl would not necessarily leave us with MDMA"

Yes it would If the product is n,hydroxymdma the logical product of a OH reduction will be mdma.

"I would rather just filter out/wash out any contaminant molecules that have an OH group sticking out"

If it was that easy washing meh would be the way to turn it into magic.this isn't the case.

"What compound likes to selectively attach to alcohols, i.e. the hydroxyl group while leaving the amino group and methylenedioxy bridge alone ?"

You could halogenate the OH to make
N,bromomdma which would be shit and would still probably behave the same way mdma does so it probably won't just all of a sudden become easier to remove than the OH.
you could make an ester with a carboxylic acid like acetic acid giving n,acetoxymdma which again would be shit and hard to remove.
There really isn't much other than fractionally distilling the products to seperate them or reducing the OH group to mdma.apparently the HI method could cause demethylation of the 3,4,bridge so the lithium ammonia method would be best.

 

[user666]

An acetone or xylene wash would have gotten rid of that being as it's a liquid isn't it?

I don't think salts of MDP2Pol are liquids at room temperature.
Please correct me if I am wrong (I do not take offense at being corrected, I welcome it).

 

[user666]

Yes it would If the product is n,hydroxymdma the logical product of a OH reduction will be mdma.

Your right with this one, but I am also considering other compounds which have an OH group sticking out and have been documented to be contaminants in "street MDMA". Such as:

• MDP2Pol and MDP1Pol, which are major byproducts according to this.
• Piperonyl alcohol and Piperonal oxime
• Alpha-Hydroxy-3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone (CID 13591054)
• 1,3-Benzodioxole-5-ethanol, alpha-methyl (CAS 6974-61-4)

Maybe some of them work similarly to Xanax, due to that OH group messing with GABA receptors like some alcohols.
Also, some of them decompose during GC testing and pretend to be MDMA... Just Google for: Hydroxy "Pyrolytic Disproportionation"

apparently the HI method could cause demethylation of the 3,4,bridge so the lithium ammonia method would be best.

What would the lithium/sodium ammonia method do to the pure 3,4-MDMA ?

 

[indigoaura]

@user666

You may be remembering this: https://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=2644

This is a sample that I sent in, and it is what I had access to almost exclusively from 2005 or so onward until more recently.

 

[indigoaura]

I will also add that out of all my meh samples I have discussed here, that sample was the worst, and the most "meh." All of the effects I complain about such as the sleepiness, coldness, sexual ambivalence, and sickness in the following week were the most extreme with that sample.

 

[SunriseChampion]

This is useful, because based on the descriptions in here I had been assuming mehDMA to be be a complete turnoff even to a first timer. How would you compare mehDMA to just being on a decent dose of amphetamine or meth?

I was a tweaker for a bit years ago and have had methbomb pills aaand shit "MDMA" and I would say that as much as I hate meth now, shit "MDMA" is worse as it just feels like.....almost nothing. Maybe a glass of wine combined with a load of caffeine. Not quite the bumping rush of meth nor any of its associated albeit brief and fleeting euphoric rush.

 

[user666]

You may be remembering this: https://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=2644
This is a sample that I sent in, and it is what I had access to almost exclusively from 2005 or so onward until more recently.

So it was you! Can you find your discussion with @G_Chem about it ?
BTW: The 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propanol (CAS 6974-61-4) is another name for the "MDP2Pol", which is the major byproduct of reductive amination of the ketone MDP2P (a.k.a. PMK).

According to Rhodium:

Most of the MDP2P not converted to MDMA will instead have been reduced to MDPol, which will be left in the non-polar phase after the acid/base extraction. This can be isolated, distilled, and then re-oxidized (with chromate, bleach, etc.) to MDP2P and then reused [quoted from here].

 

[indigoaura]

I will try to find it @user666 . There was a second person who also had a similar contaminant found through testing. I can't remember who that was. But, I do remember G_Chem commenting that since we both had such similar contaminants, maybe there was something to it.

Also of interest: after I got those test results back, I forwarded them to the supplier. The supplier was surprised, and said multiple acetone washes would be added to the process. After that, the product was whiter and the experience did improve somewhat, but never to a "magic" place. The post-roll sickness did decrease somewhat though, in subsequent batches. The acetone washed version of that sample is what I sent to Vash, and I will be sending it off for advanced GCMS testing as well. If we take Vash at face value, then that sample showed an extra peak on GCMS analysis, a similar extra peak to what Vash's sample showed.

 

[user666]

One of the Pros conjectured that these weird peaks could mean that MDP2Pol was hiding in there:

There is certainly some weirdness in the 1H spectra, there are several broad peaks typical of amines (and to a lesser extent alcohols) this may be amine vs protonated amine, but equally it could be the alcohol MDP2Pol is hiding in there there are too many broad peaks IMHO. Running NMR in D2O or CD3OD will make the amine peaks disappear and simplify things.