- Mar 10, 2006
- iterating through cyclic eternities
IMO this post is not true, helpful, or in the spirit of harm reduction.Just btw, to anyone new to ketamine - this sort if damage is from pretty extreme abuse. I used to abuse >5g a session every couple months, and now use ~1-2g once a month for half a decade with no issue to speak of.
Its like the difference between someone who drinks a six pack vs someone who drinks a liter of vodka, and its effects on the liver.
Ketamine and arylcyclohexylamine damage is cumulative in a far more dangerous and deceptive way than alcohol abuse.
Serious alcohol abuse is usually visible early. On the other hand, ketamine abuse is not. The comparison is not a good one, the way people use these drugs is completely different. It's quite possible for someone to have an entirely secret ketamine habit using a few grams a month alone and still develop serious problems. You cannot say categorically that this sort of damage is from "pretty extreme abuse" when this entire thread has multiple examples that people's ideas about how much ketamine is too much are all kinds of distorted and wrong.
Additionally - alcohol abuse primarily affects the liver, although obviously other organs are and can be affected. Liver damage, again, has very visible signs before it becomes irreversible. Jaundice is very easy to diagnose. The liver is also an extremely regenerative organ. Simply ceasing alcohol use for a long enough period is usually enough to allow it to recover, and there are other drugs that can be used that mostly do what alcohol does but better, and are not nearly as harmful, even close to being entirely biologically benign, so someone with an actual diagnosable addiction can substitute with another drug, if they so choose, making the path away from liver failure and probably death an easier one for the alcohol addict than for those who develop a serious problem with dissociatives - because the toxic elements of dissociatives seemingly span the entire class of arylcyclohexylamines, and to the best of my knowledge, there is nothing that quite replicates the desirable effects of this class, which seem to be quite unique.
Ketamine on the other hand affects the bladder and kidneys - none of these organs are especially regenerative, and bladder symptoms are variable, sporadic, resemble other conditions, may come and go, may in some cases even be reversible although that is up for debate as has been happening throughout this thread. In short, it's easy to convince oneself that their bladder is actually fine - when it's not - and while I concede it's probably easy for an alcoholic to convince themselves that their liver is fine when it's really not, this is less of a problem than it is for the ketamine user, because again, the liver is a highly regenerative organ - the bladder is not.
What should be even more concerning, really, but is mentioned far less, is the toxic effect on the kidneys that ketamine and all drugs from the same class appear to have - the kidneys are very very good at compensating for reduced function, until a threshold is reached when suddenly, they're not. Chronic kidney disease is highly underdiagnosed, and a failing kidney often has no symptoms until it's almost too late. The kidneys do not regenerate, at least not significantly, although function can be improved in the early stages. While everyone is talking about bladder symptoms - I would bet that almost any heavy user of ketamine or ketamine like dissociatives - and by heavy I mean more than a few grams a year, honestly, for most people - already has reduced kidney function but just doesn't know it.
I find your post pretty dismissive, misinformed, and dangerous to new ketamine users. I haven't even got into the subtle addictive pull of dissociatives which is quite different to many other drugs, especially alcohol.
There is, it seems, undeniably some significant variation in how people respond to dissociatives, as far as how susceptible they are to lasting damage, which I've said before and maintain is probably largely genetic, although other lifestyle factors are no doubt involved, as they always are.
You've been lucky. Simple as that. Many others have not been so, and despite all these warnings, will not be so lucky. Please don't be flippant about ketamine's dangers, just be grateful for your own health. And get your eGFR checked, properly, by a company that will take a blood and urine sample on the same day, and test the highest amount of biomarkers you can find. Don't just go for some low-budget option that just tests a couple of biomarkers and gives you a range that caps out at a certain level, like >90, for one it's not accurate, for another, even if it is it doesn't mean you're not at risk, it just means you probably don't have Chronic Kidney Disease yet. For all you know, your eGFR could be dropping several points with every monthly binge. Once you have an accurate figure from a reputable and thorough company, compare it against what would be expected for your age.
You think you're fine, but you might not be as well as you think.
Same goes for everyone who reads this thread and thinks eh, I feel alright, couple grams a month, no big deal. For some... maybe that's true. For many others, it's not.