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☠ WARNING ☠ *WARNING* Chronic ketamine/dissociative use causes bladder/organ damage

jhjhsdi

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Thanks for posting this, jhjhsdi
Not a problem I've wanted to post them for ages I thought I'd lost the photos, so glad I found them.
I hope that they can help some people.
Can you do that clever mod thing ive seen you do on trip reports where you hashtag them at the bottom so they easily come up in searches, say if I send you a list of words/phrase to # via pm? Ones I was searching myself at the time and not having any luck.
 

Xorkoth

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Well that system is something implemented in Trip Reports that is supposed to use a special search engine eventually. It uses coded text strings that the search engine will know to look for. But the functionality got broken once we upgraded the site software. It was never just a series of words or phrases.
 

jhjhsdi

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@Xorkoth
Ah i see. No worries! If i wrote a load of phrases at the bottom of the post like
Ketamine bladder syndrome
Pissing blood ketamine
Green lumps in urine ketamine
Blood in urine ketamine
Etc, things that I was searching myself back then..
That would help locate the post through something like google right? (and BLs search engine)
I really need to sleep now i need to be up in 4hrs ish but if it'll help people searching for help or advice I'll do it later on today 👍
 

Chris Timothy

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Magnesium should be mentioned in the context of ketamine harm reduction. It's doing some harm-reversing for what I suspect is the dissociative component for my tinnitus case. Considering that magnesium even significantly helps prevent tinnitus in general, even if not chemically induced, it should therefore help prevent ketamine ototoxicity in particular.

On form, bisglycinate is better than citrate is better than oxide. The first two bypass the absorption mechanism for inorganic matter, for which there's competition. And the first one gets more efficiently delivered to the brain in particular.

Since it's technically an NMDA-antagonist as well it certainly won't hinder the effects.
 

G_Chem

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Magnesium should be mentioned in the context of ketamine harm reduction. It's doing some harm-reversing for what I suspect is the dissociative component for my tinnitus case. Considering that magnesium even significantly helps prevent tinnitus in general, even if not chemically induced, it should therefore help prevent ketamine ototoxicity in particular.

On form, bisglycinate is better than citrate is better than oxide. The first two bypass the absorption mechanism for inorganic matter, for which there's competition. And the first one gets more efficiently delivered to the brain in particular.

Since it's technically an NMDA-antagonist as well it certainly won't hinder the effects.

I personally like magnesium l-threonate although it’s not cheap.

-GC
 

jhjhsdi

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@Chris Timothy
I take Magnesium tablets every night when I take the rest of my vitamins/supplements.
They're 600mg iirc. Had no idea they could be useful for k harm reduction.
I take it because I heard it can help with sleep, and also depression.
 

LucidSDreamr

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I thought they were probably better suited to the dark side forum than as a thread in PD. Could seriously ruin someones trip lol

Maybe a bad trip thining about health consequences is the trauma some people need to respect drugs often perceived as harmless compared to "hard" drugs.
 

HearWhalesLaugh

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well here’s a sad panda datapoint... I have done 2fdck a mere 3 times in the last 45ish days and I’m feeling it after the last one...

to be fair I was a dumbass this time.. didn’t plan for it and had crappy food
In the tum etc etc but I’m gonna have to keep dissos to a 3 month rule
And probably stick to boofing to maximize my effect per mg...

I’ve been feeling my bladder all day and having to pee a little more often. Switching back to green tea from coffee and praying for the best. If the 3 month thing doesn’t work well , bye bye ACHs

(I had strep in my blood a few years back and had sores on my member, and it hurt like fire to piss.. before I found out what it was i Thought my partner had cheated on me! So im never looking to experience that again)
 

Chris Timothy

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I personally like magnesium l-threonate although it’s not cheap.

-GC

I can't say I share the like. It doesn't seem to significantly add to the effect of the glycinate form. And apart from hurting the wallet it's headachy and vaguely nauseating. It looks good on paper for sure, but in practice all that seems to do is explain its price tag.

The glycinate has an effect on its own by the way, which makes it particularly suited for ketamine aftercare. It's a co-agonist of the NMDA receptor, which could be stronger than the conditional antagonism by magnesium itself, and down-regulate the up-regulated cochlear receptors in spite of glycinate's effect on the nervous system in general, which is acting as a (in my case welcome) ever so slight downer.

So the threonate form could be preferable as preventive option if you want to avoid sedation (and anything resembling NMDA-agonism) at all cost, and you don't notice its head and stomach load. Apart from that, it does kick in faster. Those are the only pros I can think off. So I'd advice against.
 

jhjhsdi

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which makes it particularly suited for ketamine aftercare. It's a co-agonist of the NMDA receptor, which could be stronger than the conditional antagonism by magnesium itself, and down-regulate the up-regulated cochlear receptors in spite of glycinate's effect on the nervous system in general, which is acting as a (in my case welcome) ever so slight downer
can i get that in laymans terms plz pal?
 

MsDiz

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I can't say I share the like. It doesn't seem to significantly add to the effect of the glycinate form. And apart from hurting the wallet it's headachy and vaguely nauseating. It looks good on paper for sure, but in practice all that seems to do is explain its price tag.

The glycinate has an effect on its own by the way, which makes it particularly suited for ketamine aftercare. It's a co-agonist of the NMDA receptor, which could be stronger than the conditional antagonism by magnesium itself, and down-regulate the up-regulated cochlear receptors in spite of glycinate's effect on the nervous system in general, which is acting as a (in my case welcome) ever so slight downer.

So the threonate form could be preferable as preventive option if you want to avoid sedation (and anything resembling NMDA-agonism) at all cost, and you don't notice its head and stomach load. Apart from that, it does kick in faster. Those are the only pros I can think off. So I'd advice against.
Thiamine will help with the headaches when it comes to magnesium l-threonate.
 

Chris Timothy

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can i get that in laymans terms plz pal?
First sentence in the quote, really. Although I'm somewhat guessing, the mechanism of the glycinate form does look like something that should reverse some dissociative damage at the receptor level, on top of magnesium's action. That complex combination of effects on the relevant neurons might just be what's needed to help normalize them again. I can't state it with any more confidence, because I suppose the general, slight downer effect could explain the decrease of my tinnitus in itself. Nevertheless, from what I've read I can imagine specific reparative stuff going on, I'd say it's worth betting on this particular form of magnesium supplementation for general ketamine harm reduction, perhaps during but especially after the trip.

Thiamine will help with the headaches when it comes to magnesium l-threonate.
I do take multivitamins, so I take it you're not talking standard dose? Anyway, I won't be testing, even if I'd have a reason to. I've read a report of higher dose B vitamins increasing the ringing.
 

Bicycle Tripper

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I recently tried 25mg of DCK orally and a few days later had difficulty urinating and pain similar to when I had kidney stones, this lasted for a few days. Should I take this to mean I'm predisposed to bladder damage from dissociatives?

I'm not too bothered if I can't try any dissociatives again but I was hoping to experience a hole at least once, I only really felt a bit wobbly from the DCK.
 

G_Chem

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I can't say I share the like. It doesn't seem to significantly add to the effect of the glycinate form. And apart from hurting the wallet it's headachy and vaguely nauseating. It looks good on paper for sure, but in practice all that seems to do is explain its price tag.

The glycinate has an effect on its own by the way, which makes it particularly suited for ketamine aftercare. It's a co-agonist of the NMDA receptor, which could be stronger than the conditional antagonism by magnesium itself, and down-regulate the up-regulated cochlear receptors in spite of glycinate's effect on the nervous system in general, which is acting as a (in my case welcome) ever so slight downer.

So the threonate form could be preferable as preventive option if you want to avoid sedation (and anything resembling NMDA-agonism) at all cost, and you don't notice its head and stomach load. Apart from that, it does kick in faster. Those are the only pros I can think off. So I'd advice against.

I’ve found the dosages they recommend are WAY too high. I use probably 50-100mg a night and it’s amazing when needed. Although I’ve never tried glycinate.

Also I was under the impression the NMDA-antagonist effects were a magnesium thing no matter the salt/form. I definitely feel like l-threonate has mild NMDA-antagonist effects.

All that said, it is expensive and if the other forms work just as well then go for them. Since I use such low doses it, a bottle lasts me awhile.

-GC
 

Chris Timothy

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Mine come in 50mg doses, yeah. I would have to start opening the capsules to go any lower.

You had the right impression. In short, magnesium antagonises, and glycinate agonises.

Thanks for the tip though, was worth a try.
 

Chris Timothy

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I had some logistical problems with the glycinate, so I used some l-threonate to spread out the stash. It's not that bad in combination with the glycinate, I got used to the stomach feel at least. Only got the headache a couple of times, though at random, and very dose-independent (just from 8mg one time).

It turns out that on top of all its other effects, glycinate is the prodrug of glutathione, the body's own antioxidant. So preloading should be useful as well!
 

LucidSDreamr

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I recently tried 25mg of DCK orally and a few days later had difficulty urinating and pain similar to when I had kidney stones, this lasted for a few days. Should I take this to mean I'm predisposed to bladder damage from dissociatives?

I'm not too bothered if I can't try any dissociatives again but I was hoping to experience a hole at least once, I only really felt a bit wobbly from the DCK.
I'm my experience DCK was the most brutal disso on the bladder. I also used me. K mxe and 3meopcp...but dck flared me the worst by far before I fully quit. I would rank K as the easiest of these on the bladder.

You should absolutely take it as damage. That's how it started with me
..problems after use sessions that would dissipate after a few days...until eventually the pain just never stopped even years later.

I wouldn't try a hole once even just to do it. It's kinda like crack in the sense that nobody just hits crack once then never does again and move on in their life. I found holing and microdosing of dissos to be the most psychologically addicting drugs...and i have done all drugs.

I'm mean crack is really addicting while your actively using it...but dissos become a craving with you long after the next day even. They really are the perfect drug with a little of every drug type all wrapped into one...with seemingly no hangover or consequences...except for that organ damage that you don't realize until months or years later and it's too late.

I know have pelvic floor dysfunction which resulted from my bladder issues. Also a very unpleasant condition.
 
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Bicycle Tripper

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I'm my experience DCK was the most brutal disso on the bladder. I also used me. K mxe and 3meopcp...but dck flared me the worst by far before I fully quit. I would rank K as the easiest of these on the bladder.

You should absolutely take it as damage. That's how it started with me
..problems after use sessions that would dissipate after a few days...until eventually the pain just never stopped even years later.

I wouldn't try a hole once even just to do it. It's kinda like crack in the sense that nobody just hits crack once then never does again and move on in their life. I found holing and microdosing of dissos to be the most psychologically addicting drugs...and i have done all drugs.

I'm mean crack is really addicting while your actively using it...but dissos become a craving with you long after the next day even. They really are the perfect drug with a little of every drug type all wrapped into one...with seemingly no hangover or consequences...except for that organ damage that you don't realize until months or years later and it's too late.

I know have pelvic floor dysfunction which resulted from my bladder issues. Also a very unpleasant condition.
I appreciate you sharing your experiences and I'm sorry to hear about your health problems.

I did try the DCK on one more occasion but I drank a load of green tea before and during the session and didn't have any of the same symptoms as the first time. I've finished the 200mg DCK I had now and I won't get any more. I did get a gram of K a while back but I've not tried any yet, read lots about rubbish K going around so I'd like to get it tested before I try it. I am concerned by how addictive some users find it though, so maybe I will just bin it.
 
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