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Opioids Trying to switch to sub, but no WD after 36+ hrs

Yes please wait...do not take those subs until you are in full WD you mentioned you are taking Benadryl and something else for sleeping...they say dont no over the counter or comfort drugs at all before the switch...just so you know
Also dont freak about going to work nothing might happen at all you might be fine easy for me to say but you must think positive...just think that WD go for what 5 days at the worst part and you are at 3 !! well lol fingers crossed and I pray it will be so
 
My chest pain suddenly became completely unbarable. I'm screaming and it feels like a brick is being thrown at my chest.

Is this WD or unrelated??

I am tempted to take 0.5 mg of sun because I just can't take it
 
Stop trying to convince yourself to take the sub. Honestly reading thru your thread it's almost like you are trying to justify to yourself "take just 1mg" or "just 0.5 mg".

I can tell you from experience if you are getting lucky and having an easy withdrawal that once you touch any opiate --even sub--it'll for whatever reason bring back the wd in full force. I don't claim to understand why, but that happened to me every time I wasn't feeling really sick and would think "oh I'll take it so I don't get sick at work". Bad bad mistake. If you're worried about work take it with you where you have access to ease your mind but don't take it

Second--try to stop thinking about when/if wd may come. You said you're worried about resuming normal life. But that's exactly what you should do. And if you get worse wd, handle it then. Staying busy/active will only help though.

As everyone has told you--don't even think of taking the sub until you're in awful wd. Not mild. Like "I can't take it anymore" type. Hopefully you never get there

On a fairly decent fentanyl habit I was sick for 5-6 days. Mostly RLS after the first two days of chills/sweats. I couldn't sit still but I had no energy to walk so I shuffled around the downstairs floor of my house like a mental patient. Would do that for about 5-10 min, collapse into recliner and be able to sit for about 15'minutes til the legs started aching and twitching again. Miserable. At that point I tried oxy on day 3 to help and 90 mg barely helped --It took away the RLS but that was it


And yes I just saw your update re : chest. If you are having that kind of pain, get to an ER and make sure you're not having a heart attack!! That's not a wd symptom, unless you're experiencing crushing anxiety
 
BlueSosa said:
My chest pain suddenly became completely unbarable. I'm screaming and it feels like a brick is being thrown at my chest.

Is this WD or unrelated??

I am tempted to take 0.5 mg of sun because I just can't take it
Click to expand...

I hope you called an ambulance.
Kepp us updated !
Hope you're ok.
 
No one really should try switching between a full agonist opiate and sub unless their tolerance is at the level comparable to a ceiling dose of bupe or lower. That is in the 60-80 mg methadone range but really if your tolerance is above 80 mg of oxy the transition could be difficult. It can take a really long time for a large habit to work through your system. It can take twice as long as it normally would for someone on a moderate to small dose. Purchasing white powders on the street could be any number of drugs besides actual fent.
 
^When switching from Methadone to Buprenorphine the standard protocoll is to taper down to 30mg of Methadone before the Bupre-induction.

But I agree that OP could actually have gotten some Fentanyl analogue labeled as "Fentanyl HCL" if he bought it from online vendors.
 
With fentanyl, at normal dosages it can take 3 days before you are safe to take buprenorphine without going into precipitated withdrawal because its metabolite nor-ibogaine has a long half-life. I cannot even guess at how long you would have to wait with the dosages you are doing. This is my guess as to why it is taking so long. I hope you find relief soon.
 
^Are you confusing something here?

Noribogaine, or 12-hydroxyibogamine, is the principal psychoactive metabolite of the hallucinogenic drug Ibogaine
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Fentanyl is metabolised to Norfentanyl which is inactive in itself. Just to clarify things :)
 
Where are you OP? Sure hope you're still with us and that wasn't a heart attack ?
Please update.
 
I went to the ER and it was just muscle cramps. Last night I started getting WDs after the ER pretty badly. Shakes, RLS, HotFlashes, etc.

I induced myself with no PW but also not much relief until 5 mg. even at 5 mg I'm not feeling good enough to get up and go to work. Can I take more? Or will that just make the taper impossible?? The addict in me wants to be 100% fine and move on but I don't know if that's the right thing.

Thank you all for you help and concern. You don't know how much this support means to me!!!
 
Regarding tolerance being too high for subuxones ceiling limit, that was more or less what my doctor said when I said how high my tolerance was, which was pretty close to the OPs description in heroin. That's why it was suggested I go on methadone, to which I agreed.

Edit---

But on the other hand im always saying doctors are wrong all the time and can't be trusted to be right about anything.

Glad to find out you didn't get precipitated withdrawal. Honestly I was kinda curious to find out if you would. When I was looking into the subject I had some trouble finding individual cases with tolerances close to or higher than what mine was to see if the subuxone ceiling dose might be a problem. I couldn't find a clear answer.
 
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I did some reading of studies and entries in medical journals on WD last week.
Generally, a dose of 20% , or equivalent , of your usual dose will be enough to stave off WD symptoms. So subs may work if the calculates strength is not more than 80% less.
 
Bliss26 said:
I did some reading of studies and entries in medical journals on WD last week.
Generally, a dose of 20% , or equivalent , of your usual dose will be enough to stave off WD symptoms. So subs may work if the calculates strength is not more than 80% less.
Click to expand...
I have never found this to be the case ever. If so that would mean a person taking 100mg of methadone could take 20 mg of done and not go into WD which if you have ever been on high doses of opiates cutting your dose down to about 20% your average dose will most certainly cause WD symptoms. Now after a few days to a few weeks your body will adjust to the new dose. Cutting your dose down just by 10% can cause nasty WD symptoms in individuals on chronically larger doses of opiates. The thing is these WD symptoms can be managed and will pass with time.
 
BlueSosa said:
I went to the ER and it was just muscle cramps. Last night I started getting WDs after the ER pretty badly. Shakes, RLS, HotFlashes, etc.

I induced myself with no PW but also not much relief until 5 mg. even at 5 mg I'm not feeling good enough to get up and go to work. Can I take more? Or will that just make the taper impossible?? The addict in me wants to be 100% fine and move on but I don't know if that's the right thing.

Thank you all for you help and concern. You don't know how much this support means to me!!!
Click to expand...

Yes you can keep taking more sub now, in fact you will need to do so if you want to feel better quicker, otherwise stay at that dose and just wait until it does clear you up. As I understand it you are not on a sub program but have stockpiled Subs elsewhere or you were on a program? If not I recommend that you do. I think you would really benefit from it, rather than folks I read about going onto subs for a minor-moderate hydrocodone or codeine habits. But to each their own. Glad you're feeling better, perhaps a Dr will give you a little valium for a 'leg up' during this transition?
 
Yes of course take more...they say twice a day but if I was in your shoes It would be threee times a day
They say small increments 0.5 then in another up and so forth until you are comfortable...
You are a bit of a special case so stop being a chemist and thinking about percentages ...
Just go up slowly and remember you go up fast with Fent..
So you come down fast too
After 4 or 5 days it should be out
And as bad as it might be it can only get better
Keep talking to us...and forget about work...not a good idea today...tell them you have a virus....because you do !!!
And never get in this position again !!!!!
 
Well aprescottdave, I guess it all depends on your definition of big dose. I don't do H. My dose of oxy is at least 300mg a day. Dilly doesn't work so well and I have to take 64mg to do anything, but , even though I have 80-100mg at once, 20 'mg will take away WD though not the urge to redose . So yeah I do find it somewhat accurate .

(And I've seen others here who think 10x perk 5's a day is a monster habit, or go on suboxone for a mild codeine habit, so goes to show we have different definitions of a big habit. Geez I know one guy who's on150mg methadone a day for a 40 perk 5 daily habit. What his doc was thinking I have no idea)
 
I'm pretty sure precipitated withdrawals aren't as common as the producers & prescribers of Suboxone would like to have us all think.

Just remember Suboxone has withdrawal too....probably not as bad as fentanyl, but a lot longer and more drawn out. So it would be wise to start tapering once you get through you're first half or 3/4 of your supply.

And yeah, you can take more sub, but remember no matter how much you take, it's not gonna feel nearly as good as the fent did....so you might end up blowing you're whole wad in a week or less if you keep taking more and more, trying to get a buzz. So take what you need, just remember past a certain point it becomes wasteful....especially if you don't have a prescription.
 
Stell76 said:
Back to you Blue...how are you
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Hey everyone,

So it's been trying to stabilize myself with subs and it just didn't work. I actually felt worse than I did the first few days off Fent. It wasn't precp withdrawal, just a feeling of 'needing more medicine'. I went up all the way to 12 mg subs and nothing good came out of it. Symptoms: extreme hot/cold flashes, depression, restlessness, anxiety. I don't know if I'm allergic to them or something... but they definitely did not agree with my body and DEFINITELY did not relieve all of the WDs.

I'm not proud of it but I broke down and went to score some H today (was barely able to get to the guy). I shot almost .75 g so far and don't feel high AT ALL, just feeling slightly better than I did with that sub nightmare. Could it be that the .75g was a waste because it's only been 6 hours since my last sub dose? How long do people usually need to wait?

As sad as it sounds, my plan is to go back to 'normal' (being an opiate addict) for a couple of weeks and then doing a rapid methadone taper when i get my hands on some (40 mg to start, 5 mg taper per day.. worked for me in the past)
 
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