Bupe Told My Bupe Doc That the Bupe Dosages Commonly Scripted are Unnecessarily High

[Cane2theLeft]

Bupe doctors have a limited number of patients they can treat and they don't get excessive amounts for each patient unless they don't take insurance and require exorbitant out of pocket rates... and SOME do, but this isn't the norm.

Talk to legitimate bupe docs, it actually often hampers their earning potential, especially compared to many other specialties in medicine.

There are certain inconsistencies and problems, but its certainly not all some wild conspiracy.

 

[pixplzthx]

Well this thread has a ton of great information but I'd like to chime in with an opinion/experience.

I found that when I started I needed 16 mg. However, I only needed that amount during the first week or so and then I easily lowered my dose to 2-g mg per day.

I think it has to do with the body's reaction to one no longer having their drug of choice. However, most opiates are out of your system within a week (methadone being the obvious exception). So, once that opiate is out of your system you can/will find that reducing your dose is pretty easy.

So in short: At first you're combating physical withdrawal symptoms. Later you're just trying to avoid cravings and post acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS).

Just a thought, anyway.

 

[Pegasus]

There are certain inconsistencies and problems, but its certainly not all some wild conspiracy.

I've come to the conclusion that the reason the doses scripted are so high is because they want to keep you really intoxicated by the bupe. This is intentional, to keep the patient using bupe in levels where they hypothetically crave less and are less able to use other opiates alongside the bupe. 2mg/day, for example, is plenty to hold almost everyone, but doesn't actually stop many people from being to use other opiates on top of it.

The thing is, doctors don't have first-hand experience with the drug. They have this theoretical version of what should happen which is pretty accurate, but do not precisely know the difference between a 2mg dose and an 8 or 16mg dose.

There needs to be more room for titration with Suboxone, IMO, because as long as the dose is a "blocking" dose, the patient should be able to be on as low of a dose as they desire to allow for less side effects. Even in some individuals that show an ability to stay clean, or at least mostly clean while on a non-blocking dose, the option should be there to use a lower dose that has less side effects (and more good effects).

Of course, any patient can just take the dose that they want out of the large amount prescribed by the doctor. I think the doctor should be able to dispense more accurate information in the first place, and get a system going where they can more accurately dose the patients that are not researching their dosing enough themselves to even know that a lower dose could suffice.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^GREAT post, BW!

I especially agree that I suspect a lot of the impetus to take higher doses is because they (Doctors) think it will block more (which is true) and that it will hold people's cravings better (while this is usually the case with 'done, its often not the case with sub).

 

[Moral Decay]

i posted this in another thread but didn't get much response there and was directed to this thread; I am taking 120mg of oxy a day but split it up over 4 30mg doses of IR through out the day to keep WD at bay. I have access to 0.2mg bupe. Would this be effective to keep me from getting sick? would I need more then 1 a day do you guys think? would it even be worth it for me to bother with these pills? I do not have access to bupe any stronger than 0.2mg so if i needed a larger dose i would just need to take more. Any advise would be great!

 

[fm1983]

i posted this in another thread but didn't get much response there and was directed to this thread; I am taking 120mg of oxy a day but split it up over 4 30mg doses of IR through out the day to keep WD at bay. I have access to 0.2mg bupe. Would this be effective to keep me from getting sick? would I need more then 1 a day do you guys think? would it even be worth it for me to bother with these pills? I do not have access to bupe any stronger than 0.2mg so if i needed a larger dose i would just need to take more. Any advise would be great!

You must be talking about 2mg pills. They make either 2mg or 8mg when talking about suboxone.

I was on a slightly higher dose of oxy than you, and I can get by on around 2mg a day if I really try, but somedays I take as much as 4 or 5mg, depending on how I feel and such.

Start with 1 mg, and then every half hour, dose another .5mg until you find a dose that holds you well. Everyone is truly different when it comes to suboxone and how much each persons 'magic dose' varies widely between people.

 

[Moral Decay]

You must be talking about 2mg pills. They make either 2mg or 8mg when talking about suboxone.

I was on a slightly higher dose of oxy than you, and I can get by on around 2mg a day if I really try, but somedays I take as much as 4 or 5mg, depending on how I feel and such.

Start with 1 mg, and then every half hour, dose another .5mg until you find a dose that holds you well. Everyone is truly different when it comes to suboxone and how much each persons 'magic dose' varies widely between people.

not sure if its 2mg or not, its Temgesic which i am fairly certain is .2mg

 

[Shambles]

There are certainly 0.2mg bupe pills cos I used to get them sometimes for the "in-between" doses when tapering. They are perfect for that. If you have enough to allow yourself a few a day you should be okay, in my opinion. Withdrawal is never painless and it would be pointless if it were - gotta feel at least a bit of the comeback to make you think about what you're doing to yourself - but bupe makes it easier than anything else does. Again, in my opinion. A single dose can keep you functioning and even fairly comfy for up to three days once you're over the acute initial w/d. Stock up or find a decent doctor who understands addiction to script you some of the higher dose pills to get you started on the right road would be my advice.

 

[Pegasus]

^Yes, there are quite a few 0.2mg bupe preparations across the world... This goes to show you how much freaking bupe is in an 8mg tab...

0.2mg should help; if you could snort it and increase absorption, that would make it help almost 2x as much as putting under your tongue.

 

[Moral Decay]

There are certainly 0.2mg bupe pills cos I used to get them sometimes for the "in-between" doses when tapering. They are perfect for that. If you have enough to allow yourself a few a day you should be okay, in my opinion. Withdrawal is never painless and it would be pointless if it were - gotta feel at least a bit of the comeback to make you think about what you're doing to yourself - but bupe makes it easier than anything else does. Again, in my opinion. A single dose can keep you functioning and even fairly comfy for up to three days once you're over the acute initial w/d. Stock up or find a decent doctor who understands addiction to script you some of the higher dose pills to get you started on the right road would be my advice.

If I recall correctly Temgesic does not contain Naxolone. can this be taken before WD sets in or will it put me into full WD? Do I need to wait until i am sick before I take them?

 

[cj]

Gotta wait till your sick it is the bupe that puts you into precipitated withdrawl.

 

[Znegative]

do they still prescribe Temgesic in US?

 

[Moral Decay]

do they still prescribe Temgesic in US?

dunno, this is not prescription

 

[RhinOXerous]

The high dosage is for 2 reasons: 1. Curb cravings of SERIOUS users(like 400mg ox a day). 2. Make it very difficult for SERIOUS users to breakthrough with full agonists.
I started on 24 mg a day and it barely held off the cravings. Eventually the cravings subsided, and I had my life back. I describe it as feeling the same way you felt before you began using and were in a good mood. I'm down to 8 mg a day now and occasionally have to take 4 or 8 more mg in the evening.

If you truly want to quit this is a miracle drug, but, as we all know, quitting is like telling your best friend who always is a blast to never come around anymore. Then you figure out even though he's the funnest, he stills a lot of $ every time you hang and alienates your friends and family. Fun he may be, but in the end he's a destructive dick.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Bupe doctors have a limited number of patients they can treat and they don't get excessive amounts for each patient unless they don't take insurance and require exorbitant out of pocket rates... and SOME do, but this isn't the norm.

Talk to legitimate bupe docs, it actually often hampers their earning potential, especially compared to many other specialties in medicine.

There are certain inconsistencies and problems, but its certainly not all some wild conspiracy.

I see the cars that the doctors own outside the place I go to. They're not hurting to own 80 grand + cars.

You do bring up an interesting point though, some doctors are much more rich than Suboxone doctors, and I can believe what you're saying. The doctors I see also see other patients for other things, so I think that they aren't hurting.

I'm thinking that doctors who treat more than just addicts are probably going to be making more money, and doctors who just do ORT may not make as much?

Eventually the cravings subsided, and I had my life back.

Well said!

 

[dankonlee_21]

I have been on Suboxone for over a year now for a somewhat moderate prescription opiate addiction. Honestly, Suboxone in my opinion is only good for the extreme withdrawal symptoms of the initial dope kick. Now, a year and a half later I find myself worse off than I was before I went into rehab and got prescribed the Suboxone. Insurance won't cover it, it costs me $25 per day just to avoid severe withdrawals so essentially I am no different than any run of the mill junky. Before, I was using between 1.5 and 3 Oxycontin 80mg tablets per day. I was taking them orally, in halves and taking them throughout 10 hour workdays in a corporate environment in the financial industry. It just got to be a bit too expensive. Thus, I went to rehab after being told over and over again that self medicating with Oxycontin is no solution to any problems and that I would eventually die from it or build an extreme tolerance (I never needed to increase my oral dosage of the Oxycontin and 1.5-3 per day was ALWAYS enough for me to feel great and be productive.) Doctors told me otherwise and as a result now I have spent $10,000 on a bullshit rehab facility and thousands and thousands of dollars going to and from CVS pharmacy to buy my couple of suboxones to make it through the day. Can somebody tell me how this is ANY better than being addicted to the Oxycontin in the first place? The only difference I see is that at least with the Oxycontin I was getting a euphoria and felt great now all I feel is BLAH all day every day and the Suboxone does nothing except stop me from getting extremely dopesick from withdrawal. THE ONLY OTHER difference is that now countless doctors, insurance companies, co-pays, etc etc and the MEDICAL FIELD is lining their pockets off keeping me addicted. Granted, you could say the medical field was benefitting from my addiction to Oxycontin as well I suppose but this whole Suboxone things seems pretty god damned premeditated. Suboxone is good for short term detox, maybe a month or two AT THE VERY MOST IN THE MOST EXTREME OF CASES. Anything past that and the medical industry is simply putting invisible handcuffs on your mind and ensuring that they have job security from now until forever as your number one and always needed DOPE DEALER.

To say this makes me sick would be a massive understatement.

 

[Georgie25]

I have been on Suboxone for over a year now for a somewhat moderate prescription opiate addiction. Honestly, Suboxone in my opinion is only good for the extreme withdrawal symptoms of the initial dope kick. Now, a year and a half later I find myself worse off than I was before I went into rehab and got prescribed the Suboxone. Insurance won't cover it, it costs me $25 per day just to avoid severe withdrawals so essentially I am no different than any run of the mill junky. Before, I was using between 1.5 and 3 Oxycontin 80mg tablets per day. I was taking them orally, in halves and taking them throughout 10 hour workdays in a corporate environment in the financial industry. It just got to be a bit too expensive. Thus, I went to rehab after being told over and over again that self medicating with Oxycontin is no solution to any problems and that I would eventually die from it or build an extreme tolerance (I never needed to increase my oral dosage of the Oxycontin and 1.5-3 per day was ALWAYS enough for me to feel great and be productive.) Doctors told me otherwise and as a result now I have spent $10,000 on a bullshit rehab facility and thousands and thousands of dollars going to and from CVS pharmacy to buy my couple of suboxones to make it through the day. Can somebody tell me how this is ANY better than being addicted to the Oxycontin in the first place? The only difference I see is that at least with the Oxycontin I was getting a euphoria and felt great now all I feel is BLAH all day every day and the Suboxone does nothing except stop me from getting extremely dopesick from withdrawal. THE ONLY OTHER difference is that now countless doctors, insurance companies, co-pays, etc etc and the MEDICAL FIELD is lining their pockets off keeping me addicted. Granted, you could say the medical field was benefitting from my addiction to Oxycontin as well I suppose but this whole Suboxone things seems pretty god damned premeditated. Suboxone is good for short term detox, maybe a month or two AT THE VERY MOST IN THE MOST EXTREME OF CASES. Anything past that and the medical industry is simply putting invisible handcuffs on your mind and ensuring that they have job security from now until forever as your number one and always needed DOPE DEALER.

To say this makes me sick would be a massive understatement.

I'd say being on subs and taking OC 80s arent much of a difference addiction wise. But the point of being on subs is to get time away from your old habits and give you more structure so you can live a more normal life. By going to rehab, therapy, meetings, etc. If you just switch OC's with taking subs of course you're just gonna be switching addictions and not really gain anything from it.

 

[birdflu]

i was put on 16 mg a week ago and i agree the dose is unnecessary. i plan on tapering down to only a few mg and hopefully getting off the benzos w.o my dr. finding out i was ever taking them

 

[JimmyCocks]

dankonlee- Either speak openly with your current Doctor, just like you did in your post, about tapering your dose until you no longer need anything ( It wont take long) or go to another one. Most will understand your situation and at least help you get on a tapering plan.

There is a big difference between physical dependancy on OCs and Subs and I would strongly advise going back to your original DOC. In the long run even if you have to spend alittle bit more money on subs it will be worth it in the end.
Your half way to freedom, stick it out man

- p.s I dont know about in your area but where I'm from OC's are alot more than 25 bucks

 

[jamesBrown]

i was put on 16 mg a week ago and i agree the dose is unnecessary. i plan on tapering down to only a few mg and hopefully getting off the benzos w.o my dr. finding out i was ever taking them

good luck i hope it works well for you.

just some advice....i believe that the quicker you taper your suboxone dose and the lower dose you taper it too, the better. In my opinion, even people who are scripted 16-32mg's/day should be able to drop down below 4mg's/day within a week or two of there induction into the program. What makes it so easy is the fact that you havent been on the suboxone very long so dropping the dose is MUCH less traumatic on your brain/body.
Also, I think you should shoot for a dose below 2mg's/day as this is the dose range that I find has the most beneficial effects. It also makes it SOOOO much easier to quit the suboxone in the end if you have only been taking like 1mg/day the entirety of your maintanence. You could very easily go from 2mg's/dy down to 0.3mg's/day and then stay at that for a couple weeks and then jump off with ALOT less disomfort or pain than the average suboxone maintanence user who is trying to quit.