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Dissociatives The Small & Handy PCM Thread

xen2xen

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Oct 22, 2020
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This base arylcylclohexylamine is now beginning to show up on the markets. How exciting! To my knowledge, base arylcyclohexylamines have not been offered at the retail level in quite some time.

I suggest that PCMe or NMPCA (N-methyl-1-phenylcyclohexylamine) be used to refer to this molecule, as PCM has previously been used to refer to the N-morpholine analog. However, some vendors are still using PCM to refer to this molecule.

The only report I have been able to find comes from adder's thread on PCP analogs, PCP analogs (Cumulative) - Retrospective - Bioassays:
PCM, N-methyl-1-phenylcyclohexanamine

Route/dose: 15mg intranasally of HCl salt
Report: Nothing else beside what I would have expected from this compound. It's safe to say it's as potent as PCP. However, as with PCE, there's a distinctive feel to it. Piperidine ring broken compounds have somewhat different intoxicating effects from PCP, more bodyload, different taste, different smell.

I am looking forward to hearing what others think of this dissociative in the coming weeks :)
 

Xorkoth

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Oh shit, PCM?? Wow. I believe the Me is not how it is usually referred to, it is a methyl and hence, PCM.

I am going to try to find some of this! I've always wanted to try one of the base dissos.

I want to try PCE the most, but I bet PCM is a winner, too. From my understanding, the base ACHs are very heavy duty, potent, and powerful.
 

Philo_

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Oct 28, 2020
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Oh shit, PCM?? Wow. I believe the Me is not how it is usually referred to, it is a methyl and hence, PCM.

I am going to try to find some of this! I've always wanted to try one of the base dissos.

I want to try PCE the most, but I bet PCM is a winner, too. From my understanding, the base ACHs are very heavy duty, potent, and powerful.
I've read one report of this new batch and apparently the doses are surprisingly high, like ~100mg give or take. The person in question has a high disso tolerance though so take it with a grain of salt. They said it feels very good and i believe compared it to a combination of 3 ho pcp and 2fdck. I look forward to trying it.
 

necropolis

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I'll be interested to hear what others have to say about this one. I might give it a try myself - still undecided on that front.

PCA (1-Phenylcyclohexanamine or 1-[1-phenyl]cyclohexylamine) is also supposed to be interesting. It has the potential to be used as an immediate precursor to PCP, so it might not be easily obtainable.

I'd like to see somebody try opening up the aryl moiety and see how that affects the final effects of some of these materials. As always - I wish everyone calm and reasonably pleasant, if not outright enjoyable, experimentation. Have fun and be safe...
 

necropolis

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From my understanding, the base ACHs are very heavy duty, potent, and powerful.

Indeed they are. Although I'm still in the same boat as far as never having had actual unsubstituted PCE, I can feel a difference in the subjective aspects of the expeience with the ethylamino sidechain substituted analogues like 3-MeO-PCE and 3-HO-PCE (which I hate to admit I'm typing this message on)... To make a super exciting (for me only, probably), long and boring discourse short - The psychedelic visual aspects and what I call "Introspective Analyses" seem to be more obtainable/accessible with the N-Ethylamino chain attached (i.e., 3-HO-PCE/3-MeO-PCE, 2'-Oxo-PCE and the like).

I can't speak to any personal experience with PCE or PCA; judging by my experiences recently with other compounds the reduction in terminal amine chain length should maintain the same basic spectrum of effects, with a probable drop in NMDA 2A/3A binding affinity (Ki or IC:50) with respect to methylamine VS ethylamine in the final synthesis.

In other words, the potency of PCM 1-[1-(Phenyl)cyclohexylmethanamine) ; N-Methyl-PCA or however the hell you want to call it would probably be - LESS - ? But I have no clue. And I'm too high on a close relative to make coherent sense as it is.
 
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Philo_

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In other words, the potency of PCM 1-[1-(Phenyl)cyclohexylmethanamine) ; N-Methyl-PCA or however the hell you want to call it would probably be - LESS - ? But I have no clue. And I'm too high on a close relative to make coherent sense as it is.

From what I have heard so far, this appears to be true. Solid reasoning!
 

Psychestim

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Oh shit, PCM?? Wow. I believe the Me is not how it is usually referred to, it is a methyl and hence, PCM.

I am going to try to find some of this! I've always wanted to try one of the base dissos.

I want to try PCE the most, but I bet PCM is a winner, too. From my understanding, the base ACHs are very heavy duty, potent, and powerful.
I know the PCE chemist guy from the Hamilton Morris podcast and he says that PCE is subjectively identical to 3-MeO-PCE. He also made PCM which, according to him, was extremely similar to DCK (which would be a bummer IMO). But who knows, we'll find out soon. ;)
 
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Xorkoth

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I would take that with a huge grain of salt. I have also heard people say that PCP is nearly identical to 3-MeO-PCP. The reports I have read of PCE claim it is even stronger than PCP and extremely debilitating, whereas the 3-MeO version is quite functional and light except in very high doses.
 

necropolis

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I know the PCE chemist guy from the Hamilton Morris podcast and he says that PCE is subjectively identical to 3-MeO-PCE. He also made PCM which, according to him, was extremely similar to DCK (which would be a bummer IMO). But who knows, we'll find out soon. ;)

I would take that with a huge grain of salt. I have also heard people say that PCP is nearly identical to 3-MeO-PCP. The reports I have read of PCE claim it is even stronger than PCP and extremely debilitating, whereas the 3-MeO version is quite functional and light except in very high doses.

I second that. Everything I've heard and read about PCE suggests that it is up to twice the potency of PCP on a weight-for-weight basis. The subjective effects are also different. A journal article from the early period of human trials with these drugs seems to point to less "body image distortion" with PCE (called CI-400 - PCP is/was CI-395). The effects were different in other ways as well. Parke-Davis the ancestor of what is today known as Pfizer, synthesized over sixty different arylcyclohexyamine derivatives. When phencyclidine was determined to be unsuitable for use as an anesthetic because of troublesome emergence effects, they tried to find a usable alternative in compounds such as PCE. None of the original series proved to be clinically useful in humans. The development of ketamine began in 1960 with a study done by Dr. Calvin Stevens on 2-Keto substituted derivatives of PCP, culminating in the synthesis of halogenated versions in 1962. Ketamine proved to be a much more useful and safer alternative to PCP and obviously has been in clinical use for decades.

I have yet to experience PCE for myself, but I would venture to guess that it is subjectively distinct from its 3-MeO cousin by quite a bit.

I have a full copy of the article that I mentioned, by Leonard Levy et al - if anyone is interested PM me and I can hook you up. I have a lot of other interesting articles as well.
 

RoDizzy

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Oct 14, 2021
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Just received this. Haven't noticed much in the way of effects yet, been slowly titrating. Certainly not as potent as PCE, 3-HO-PCx, or 3-MeO-PCx's. I'm having a hard time distinguishing effects. Most of these are intranasal, have tried vaporizing once to some cannabis esque effect profile.
 

Xorkoth

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Interesting. I wonder if the synth is good or if there are purity or other issues? There isn't much info on PCM but the work done by a Bluelighter many years ago (who synthed his own and was expert level at chemistry) suggested this is around as potent as PCP which suggests that this synth may be bad. In which case, proceed with caution as who knows what it could really be or what impurities are present. Someone who gets this should take one for the team and send it to a lab for analysis. This would be true regardless, but your report of unexpected lack of potency raises a red flag.

By the way, I changed the thread title to reference "PCM" instead of "PCMe" just to avoid confusion... it is commonly referred to as PCM (if anything could be said to be common about this one).
 

necropolis

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I agree that "PCM" is a better way to refer to this stuff, as PCMo designates the morpholine analog of PCP. I don't think that unsubstituted PCMo has ever been offered on the RC market, but there was 3-MeO-PCMo a few years ago. It never took off, mainly due to the roughly ten-fold lower potency relative to 3-MeO-PCP. Dosages of 300-450 mg were required to achieve the desired effects.
 

Xorkoth

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Me (as opposed to M) is sometimes used to refer to methyl, it's just in common drug nomenclature, just M is used (DOM for example, also 2'-oxo-PCM, 3-MeO-2'-oxo-PCM, etc). I just figured there would be less opportunity for confusion by some people thinking Me was different than M. And as you say, less chance of confusion with PCMo.
 

Kaleida

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I don't mean to doubt adder but I'd be kind of surprised if PCM was as potent as PCE or PCP. I never used 2'-Oxo-PCM but I remember people using dosages much higher than what I was using for 2-'Oxo-PCE. Ketamine is a PCM derivative and it's incredibly low potency for an arylcyclohexylamine.

Looking forward to hearing more about PCM regardless, though.
 

Xorkoth

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Well good points there Kaleida. I guess we'll see. I do hope someone sends it to a lab to get analyzed so we can all know for sure, in any case.

DCK (2'-oxo-PCM) on the other hand is quite potent, not as potent as 2'-oxo-PCE, quite a bit less, but a whole lot more potent than ketamine.
 

necropolis

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Me (as opposed to M) is sometimes used to refer to methyl, it's just in common drug nomenclature, just M is used (DOM for example, also 2'-oxo-PCM, 3-MeO-2'-oxo-PCM, etc). I just figured there would be less opportunity for confusion by some people thinking Me was different than M. And as you say, less chance of confusion with PCMo.

Also, PCMe could hypothetically refer to N-Methyl-N-Ethyl-1-phenylcyclohexylamine which has never been made as far as I know. I guess it would be properly abbreviated in fully capitalized form (i.e., PCME). But "PCMe" could be confusing in that regard as well. Is it methylamine? Is it N-methyl-N-ethylamine? Or something else? Better to call it PCM. Good call on the name change.
 

necropolis

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Also, I can't recall the exact figures, but I read somewhere in a journal article that PCE has a binding affinity for the PCP site on the NMDA receptor four times greater than that of PCP itself. This would suggest on the face of it that, by extension, PCE is 4 times the potency of PCP by weight. But in terms of subjective effects this does not prove to be the case necessarily. logP values, receptor binding and dissociation kinetics, lipid solubility, volume of distribution, blood-brain barrier penetration, half-life and a whole host of other pharmacodynamic/pharmacokinetic properties dictate the ultimate effect of any material. Not to mention the different receptor binding profile of compounds that are altered even by a single methylene spacer (homologs/homologues). PCP binds to a plethora of other receptors besides NMDA. Eticyclidine and most of the others in the series are quite pharmacologically promiscuous as well, but the overall balance between different families of receptors can vary widely with each drug. From everything that I have heard and read from journal articles, research studies and trip reports I would venture to guess that PCE is on average about 2-2.5 times the potency by weight versus unsubstituted PCP.

Judging from the significant drop in potency going from 2'-Oxo-PCE to 2'-Oxo-PCM I would suspect that PCM is going to be less potent than PCE. But things can go the opposite as well - the lackluster potency and effects of N-ethylnorketamine are a perfect example.
 

RoDizzy

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Still haven't gotten much in the way of effects with this guy. Up to 50mg intranasal.
 
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