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The Devil is determinism and God is free will and you are both.

You answered your own question about the shooter. They actually do miss the shot but the thing you have to keep in mind is that the shooter wanted to miss the shot and the person being shot at wanted to be missed. It is still free will on both sides. You are still thinking in terms of your lower self. You’re assuming that just because the shooter wants to shoot at someone implies that they want to kill them. On a lower level that is true but on a higher level that they are not aware of, they are actually holding back and purposefully not hitting their target. Because they know it’s not in alignment with their evolution and it wouldn’t serve them spiritually. Same thing with the person being shot at. Their higher self may have felt that it was better to be in a situation where they ALMOST got shot instead of actually getting shot. On a lower level they obviously don’t know that they are doing this on purpose but that is the level you are operating on and that’s why it seems illogical to you. Your confusion is because you really do not understand free will and higher selves....nothing happens without us wanting it to happen. That is the whole point of free will. If we didn’t want it to happen then it just wouldn’t happen. Nobody would get shot. Nobody would blow up on a train. Nobody would die in a plane crash. It just wouldn’t happen.

The only reason things like that happen is because we want it to happen and we attract it to us because our higher selves are in control of reality a lot more than our ego selves are and they are able to manipulate the factors and the conditions in our environment in order to create situations like that. Even if some people die on the train and some people just get injured and some people didn’t get hurt at all. Everyone of those people on the train have a higher self and those higher selves chose to experience whatever happen to them. All of the participants and passengers agreed on a deeper level that they were gonna be part of a bomb explosion on a train. It’s all agreed upon beforehand by free will. They are all connected and are all one.
See. I explained the scenario of the shooter and I even explained your additional scenario that you provided about the train bombing.

If you need more clarification I can quote some more stuff that I wrote. I go more in depth about why it happens like that.

Oh and I even cut out the parts that I thought you would find insulting yuh big baby
 
You didn't answer it. I knew you would say they missed the shot, so I changed the scenario to the bomb under the seat of the train because there is no way to explain that. Prove me wrong. Respond to what I actually asked you rather than avoiding it and responding to something else.

ovenbakedskittles said:
Oh and I even cut out the parts that I thought you would find insulting yuh big baby

You're not insulting me. It's just tiresome and I have better things to do. If I have a choice between having a civil discussion with someone else and having a childish discussion with you that mostly consists of you rambling on about how great you are and how stupid I am, I'm going to opt for the former.
 
You didn't answer it. I knew you would say they missed the shot, so I changed the scenario to the bomb under the seat of the train because there is no way to explain that. Prove me wrong. Respond to what I actually asked you rather than avoiding it and responding to something else.



You're not insulting me. It's just tiresome and I have better things to do. If I have a choice between having a civil discussion with someone else and having a childish discussion with you that mostly consists of you rambling on about how great you are and how stupid I am, I'm going to opt for the former.
You’re asking if there’s a bomb under the seat where two guys are sitting and one of them doesn’t die or gets hurt when the bomb explodes??That doesn’t even make any sense. If there is a bomb under the seat then obviously they are both gonna get hurt or die. The laws of physics still apply. And if that’s the case then they chose to do that to themselves. If one of them wanted to survive then they would have gotten up and walked far away enough from the bomb so that they wouldn’t get hurt. Like maybe they felt the urge to go to the bathroom right before the bomb exploded.

It happens all the time. You always hear stories of how people missed death by a close second and if they have been standing in a certain spot three seconds before then they would have died but they had to get their car keys or something. Their higher self compels the lower self to avoid the situation. And so you will feel an intuition to move in a certain way to avoid certain situations. Free will still applies.
 
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ovenbakedskittles said:
You’re asking if there’s a bomb under the seat where two guys are sitting and one of them doesn’t die or gets hurt when the bomb explodes??That doesn’t even make any sense. If there is a bomb under the seat then obviously they are both gonna get hurt or die. The laws of physics still apply. And if that’s the case then they chose to do that to themselves. If one of them wanted to survive then they would have gotten up and walked far away enough from the bomb so that they wouldn’t get hurt. Like maybe they felt the urge to go to the bathroom right before the bomb exploded.

Explain Hiroshima.
Check mate.
 
Explain Hiroshima.
Check mate.
I can explain Hiroshima 9/11 and the holocaust in one statement

Sacrifice.

The victims had to play that role of suffering in order to wake humanity up to their destructive behaviors and unconscious awarenesses. It’s the same for massive amounts of people as it is for people’s individual lives. They attract that towards them so that society as a whole could gain awareness and evolve.

And also you are just proving my point of the arrogant destructive force of science and authoritarian and political structures that impose their will on others. If we didn’t have those structures these atrocities would have never happened. If we were a more spiritual and emotional based society these things would have never happened.
 
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No, explain it in terms of the shooter/bomber, free will vs determinism problem.
I just did lol. The victims of Hiroshima made a choice to take on the role of suffering that would come from the bombing in order to awaken society. They chose to take on that role with their free will. Determinism is them thinking that it just happened to them without them asking for it. But they were not aware of themselves enough to see their higher aspect that manifested this situation.

Same with 911 and holocaust. Their higher selves decided to participate in suffering for the purpose of higher expansion and awareness for future generations. It was something that was planned before they even came into this life.

the people who bombed Hiroshima already have their free will established because they are the ones imposing their will. That part of it is obvious.
 
ovenbakedskittles said:
If someone dies... by getting shot it is their unconscious decision for that to happen for the sake of expansion and evolution and progression and awareness.

ovenbakedskittles said:
f there is a bomb under the seat then obviously they are both gonna get hurt or die. The laws of physics still apply. And if that’s the case then they chose to do that to themselves. If one of them wanted to survive then they would have gotten up and walked far away enough from the bomb so that they wouldn’t get hurt.

So, all the Jewish children who died in gas chambers wanted to die... and all the innocent people in Hiroshima wanted to die?

You seem to be oscillating between them being able to chose whether or not they want to die (free will) and their higher selves choosing if they die (which implies free will on the part of their higher selves, not them).

With all due respect, what you're saying doesn't make sense.

If you were sitting in a room with someone who's daughter was brutally raped and killed would you tell them she chose to die that way?

Your explanations for Hiroshima and the holocaust are conveniently inconsistent with your explanation for the train scenario. If there is no way for them to get up and walk away, the rules change apparently?

Let's say the entire train explodes. They can't walk away (like Hiroshima) so you'd say that was "sacrifice" and that everyone on the train decided of their own free will - before they were born - to die...

ovenbakedskittles said:
On the third level, this is a planned event. The shooter and the victim have higher selves that have been around for eternity and are connected to god and are connected to eachother and have better view of the whole scope of the situation. These higher selves have an agreement on an inter dimensional level that this shooting is gonna happen.

I pointed out earlier that this implies a lack of free will on an individual human basis. Hiroshima implies a lack of free will also. If these events are planned, doesn't that imply determinism?

ovenbakedskittles said:
They chose to take on that role with their free will... It was something that was planned before they even came into this life.

So it was predetermined and they chose it?

Buzz Lightbeer said:
I admire your determination

Thank you.
 
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So, all the Jewish children who died in gas chambers wanted to die... and all the innocent people in Hiroshima wanted to die?

You seem to be oscillating between them being able to chose whether or not they want to die (free will) and their higher selves choosing if they die (which implies free will on the part of their higher selves, not them).

With all due respect, what you're saying doesn't make sense.

If you were sitting in a room with someone who's daughter was brutally raped and killed would you tell them she chose to die that way?

Your explanations for Hiroshima and the holocaust are conveniently inconsistent with your explanation for the train scenario. If there is no way for them to get up and walk away, the rules change apparently?

Let's say the entire train explodes. They can't walk away (like Hiroshima) so you'd say that was "sacrifice" and that everyone on the train decided of their own free will - before they were born - to die...



I pointed out earlier that this implies a lack of free will on an individual human basis. Hiroshima implies a lack of free will also. If these events are planned, doesn't that imply determinism?



So it was predetermined and they chose it?



Thank you.
Yes it looks like oscillation to you because you don’t know how to integrate those two ideas into one and realize they are one in the same thing in order to view it in an objective way. You have to realize that they ARE their higher selves. They are not separate from them. It’s just an aspect of themselves that they are not aware of because of socialization and deterministic patterns of behavior.

So when their higher selves make a decision it is actually them making the decision. The higher self and the lower self are one. But I have to explain it that way for semantic purposes in order to speak in the way which you see as “logical”. But I’m trying to explain to you that reality is not based on concrete logic and definitive one sided answers. It’s convoluted and has many levels and layers and contradictions and counterintuitive notions.

And yes that girl chose to get raped before she came into this life but of course I would not tell her that. I’m not THAT much of an asshole. It’s a little girl for Christ’s sake. But just because I would not tell her doesn’t mean that it is not the truth.

And I’ll start with train scenario: if people are on a train with a bomb on it and there is absolutely no way to avoid death then all those people decided beforehand that they want to die. That part is not that hard to understand. However, If there was a person that wanted to survive then they just wouldn’t have gotten on the train at all. They could have gotten up late and missed the train they were supposed to get on or something like that. There is always a way to avoid it. The higher self somehow finds a way.

Even with Hiroshima people could have decided to move away to another country or been out of town when the bomb hit. In reality they just wouldn’t have chosen that life in the first place and chose to be born somewhere else. There is always a way to avoid it. You are just thinking to limited.

Even with the holocaust there is people who have stories that they were supposed to get thrown in the furnace or die in someway but somehow they didn’t or they got miraculously overlooked by the nazi soldiers that were exterminating them. Some of them chose to die and some of them chose to survive and tell the story.

And it is determinism if you are not aware that you made the decision and perceive it as a random occurrence that’s happening out of your control and inflicting itself upon your life. It is free will if you wake up to that aspect of you that is in control of the situation (higher self) and you decide whether or not you want to partake in that experience or not. But if you are unaware of yourself and you have resistance towards that higher aspect of yourself then how can you make the decision?? That is determinism and that is the problem in our society today and has always been a problem.

People are not empowered enough to realize their power and their free will and they are socialized into a society that is operating under determinism and lack of awareness. People think that they have no control over their circumstances and it is just not true. They just don’t know the extent of their free will and how far it can go. science and physical secular thinking brainwashes you into reinforcing the idea that the world is fixed and we have no control over our circumstances.

Even if our higher selves decide that something is gonna happen before we were born we can still take actions and gain enough awareness to not partake in that experience. So it is not predetermined. It just appears that way because we are disempowered and disengaged from our higher selves and in a state of “victim” mentality.
 
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A will is a person. I don't know that there's anything more to it. I guess if there is, it looks pretty cool. I wouldn't be surprised if certain people can predict the future but that it might be tied into reincarnation or similar magic. It's not like I hold any beliefs, but it interests me
 
ovenbakedskittles said:
It’s convoluted

Indeed.

ovenbakedskittles said:
Even with Hiroshima people could have decided to move away to another country or been out of town when the bomb hit.

Your explanation makes no sense. You keep saying they could decide to move but it was decided before they were born. Their higher selves deciding before it was born is not individual free will. You have failed to explain it. At the end of the day, you have some interesting theories but you're no different than any of the other people I've talked to who claim to be prophets. I agree with many of the things you've said, but you don't know everything.

I'm done.
 
Even if our higher selves decide that something is gonna happen before we were born we can still take actions and gain enough awareness to not partake in that experience. So it is not predetermined. It just appears that way because we are disempowered and disengaged from our higher selves and in a state of “victim” mentality.
I already explained that. Try reading the whole post instead. It’s no wonder why skeptics don’t understand. They just blow off whatever they think is not worth their time. And then try to make it seem like people like me are the arrogant ones.
 
A will is a person. I don't know that there's anything more to it. I guess if there is, it looks pretty cool. I wouldn't be surprised if certain people can predict the future but that it might be tied into reincarnation or similar magic. It's not like I hold any beliefs, but it interests me
A person has the will to choose 🖖but is a will really just a person ??? Cz it really sounds like a decision a person would make cz they have choices but have your choices already been chosen And you just never no orrrr
 
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