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The current vaping lung ‘epidemic’

w01fg4ng

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I live in the UK anyway.
The campaign was indeed born in the USA and HR 420 Regulate Marijuana like Alcohol is a federal bill being made in the USA. This doesn’t mean it’s the only place in the world it’s applicable.

Concerns with illicit production of alcohol are also our main concern here with the latest illnesses and deaths related to blackmarket marijuana cartridges.

The UK, for example, uses the “Fit and proper test” to prevent these types of illicit activities from happening in your neighborhood.

2.10 The fit and proper test
We’ll only grant approval to applicants who can demonstrate that they are fit and proper to carry on a controlled activity. This means HMRC must be satisfied the business is genuine and that all persons with an important role or interest in it are law abiding, responsible, and do not pose any significant threat in terms of potential revenue non-compliance or fraud.

HMRC will assess all applicants (not just the legal entity of the business but all partners, directors and other key persons) against a number of ‘fit and proper’ criteria to establish:

  • there’s no evidence of illicit trading indicating the business is a serious threat to the revenue, or that key persons involved in the business have been previously involved in significant revenue non-compliance, or fraud, either within excise or other regimes - some examples of evidence we would consider are:
    • assessments for duty-unpaid stock or for other under-declarations of tax that suggest there’s a significant risk associated with the business trading in duty-unpaid alcohol
    • seizures of duty-unpaid products
    • penalties for wrongdoing or other civil penalties which suggest a business does not have a responsible outlook on its tax obligations
    • trading with unapproved persons
    • previous occasions where approvals have been revoked or refused for spirits production or other regimes (including liquor licensing)
    • previous confiscation orders and recovery proceedings under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002
    • key persons have been disqualified as a director under company law
    • there are no connections between the businesses, or key persons involved in the business, with other known non-compliant or fraudulent businesses
  • key persons involved in the business have no criminal convictions which are relevant for example, offences involving any dishonesty or links to organised criminal activity - we will normally disregard convictions that are spent provided there are no wider indications that the person in question continues to pose a serious threat to the revenue (an ‘unspent’ conviction is one that has not expired under the terms of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974)
  • the application is accurate and complete and there has been no attempt to deceive HMRC
  • there have not been persistent or negligent failures to comply with any HMRC record-keeping requirements, for example poor record keeping in spite of warnings or absence of key business records
  • the applicant, or key persons in the business, have not previously attempted to avoid being approved and traded unapproved
  • the business has provided sufficient evidence of its commercial viability and credibility - HMRC will not approve applicants where they find that they cannot substantiate that there’s a genuine plan to legitimately trade from the proposed date of approval
  • there are no outstanding, unmanaged debts to HMRC or a history of duty or VAT not being paid on time
  • the business has in place satisfactory due diligence procedures covering its dealings with customers and suppliers to protect it from trading in illicit supply-chains, read paragraph 16 for more information about due diligence
The list above is not exhaustive. HMRC may refuse to approve you for reasons other than those listed, if they have justifiable concerns about your suitability to be approved.

Other regulations that legal weed states in the US have also already begun include proper potency testing of products. Your friends in the UK are doing the same thing.

7.3 Instruments for measuring alcoholic strength: criteria and use
Instruments must comply with regulation 18 of the Spirits Regulations 1991 (as amended).

Automatic densimeters must measure density according to regulation 18 of the Spirits Regulations 1991.

The 2 main criteria are:

  • the density must be directly measured as ‘density in air’ not ‘density in vacuum’ and then converted to ‘density in air’
  • at the time the measurement is taken, the temperature of the liquid must be 20°C - the measurement cannot be taken at a different temperature and converted to the equivalent density at 20°C
The automatic densimeter must carry out density measurements with accuracy and precision. All of the approved densimeters have been 5-decimal place machines, and when used according to the operator’s instructions, have proved to be accurate and precise enough for our purposes.

Some machines can convert the density of a liquid to the alcoholic strength from an internal look-up table. If you select this option, the machine must use the Official Laboratory Alcohol Tables to convert the density in air value to an alcoholic strength. For a copy of the table write to the Alcohol Policy Team at the address in the ‘Comments or suggestions’ section at the end of this notice.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/excise-notice-39-spirits-production-in-the-uk/excise-notice-39-spirits-production-in-the-uk#para2-8


The comparisons list is longer than I care to elaborate on, but it’s obvious there is a need for regulation of marijuana sales.

Of course there are places that you could argue alcohol is OVER regulated, however that’s a separate issue. In 2019, marijuana is almost universally under-regulated and this is due to prohibition.
 

Mafioso

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ermm… well, back on topic...

file:///C:/Users/DKSpringer/AppData/Local/Packages/Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe/TempState/Downloads/Researchers%20Say%20Vitamin%20E%20Likely%20Isnât%20the%20Culprit%20in%20Vaping-Related%20Ailments%20-%20WSJ%20-%20Copy%20(1).pdf

pdf link to article titled "Researchers Say Vitamin E Likely Isn’t the Culprit in Vaping-Related Ailments"
"
Researchers at the Mayo Clinic have all but ruled out vitamin E oil and other thickeners as the possible culprit in a wave of vaping-related illnesses and deaths, deepening the mystery of what might be at fault.
Instead, the clinic pathology team reported in the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday that the lung tissue they examined suggests the damage was more likely caused by inhaling a caustic chemical fume.
“The damage is essentially akin to a chemical burn,” said surgical pathologist Dr. Brandon Larsen at the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, Ariz., who led the research team. “It looks like a toxicfume exposure, like those that occurred in World War I with mustard gas or in an industrial setting with exposure to fumes from a chemical spill.”"

more info here from the New England Journal of Medicine "Pathology of Vaping-Associated Lung Injury"
"Although it is difficult to discount the potential role of lipid, we believe that the histologic changes instead suggest that vaping-associated lung injury represents a form of airway-centered chemical pneumonitis from one or more inhaled toxic substances rather than exogenous lipoid pneumonia as such, but the agents responsible remain unknown"
"In all cases, histopathological findings showed patterns of acute lung injury, including acute fibrinous pneumonitis, diffuse alveolar damage, or organizing pneumonia, usually bronchiolocentric and accompanied by bronchiolitis"

Legal vapes not safe either, at least in OR:
"State health officials say three additional cases of severe lung illnesses linked to vaping have been reported, bringing the total to eight....The Oregonian/OregonLive reports the five victims Oregon officials reported last week all shopped at legal retail marijuana stores."


Electronic cigarettes disrupt lung lipid homeostasis and innate immunity independent of nicotine
"Electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) or e-cigarettes have emerged as a popular recreational tool among adolescents and adults. Although the use of ENDS is often promoted as a safer alternative to conventional cigarettes, few comprehensive studies have assessed the long-term effects of vaporized nicotine and its associated solvents, propylene glycol (PG) and vegetable glycerin (VG). Here, we show that compared with smoke exposure, mice receiving ENDS vapor for 4 months failed to develop pulmonary inflammation or emphysema. However, ENDS exposure, independent of nicotine, altered lung lipid homeostasis in alveolar macrophages and epithelial cells."

Info on exogenous and endogenous lipid pneumonia.
"
  • Exogenous lipoid pneumonia. This occurs when the fat particles enter from outside the body and reach the lungs via the nose or mouth.
  • Endogenous lipoid pneumonia. In this type, fat particles accumulate in the lungs, causing inflammation. Endogenous lipoid pneumonia is also known as cholesterol pneumonia, golden pneumonia, or in some cases idiopathic lipoid pneumonia."
So it's possible to get lipoid pneumonia from poor diet, or increase risk factors with diet and vaping. But it's important to note that lipoid pneumonia doesn't appear to be the cause, if you note the diagnoses published by the new england jounral of med , which is why I believe vit e and other cutting agents are currently "all but ruled out".

The reason for them not being completely ruled out is likely due to the fact that unknown reactions could be occurring with application of heat, in devices that possibly malfunction and add to the growing list of variables.
 
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FutureReference

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There was quite literally cyanide found in some of the fake "Dank Vapes". A bad batch got out and now the crocodile tears and legislation will follow
 

Mafioso

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There was quite literally cyanide found in some of the fake "Dank Vapes". A bad batch got out and now the crocodile tears and legislation will follow
do you have evidence of this? as it may likely be confusion of a common byproduct produced by vaping myclobutanil(common herbicide) that produced hydrogen cyanide. However, I'm told the levels produced by vaping a gram of dirty distillate is still far lower than one cigarette, so unlikely to be the culprit, unless someone is out intentionally/unknowingly poisoning people.
 

Mafioso

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Legal alcohol is also not safe, however it is remarkably safer when regulated.
….legal vapes are regulated in Oregon(many argue to a much higher degree than alcohol or tobacco), so what was the point you were getting at?
 

w01fg4ng

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There is a big difference between safe and safer. The list of drugs that I can call safe are extremely low and weed has never been on that list.

The number of illnesses/deaths from blackmarket carts still far outweigh the ones in the regulated legal market.
 

Mafioso

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what are you even saying now @w01fg4ng ??? Difference between safe and safer, like lower and higher regulations, or food grade vs lung grade? And you'll likely only find warnings about inhalation of any of these products/chemicals on the packaging/msds sheets, because there are few things in this world that are "safe" to inhale in concentration....

And why must you turn everything into an arguing match? That is an interesting fact, but it's missing the point. Somewhere around 25% of the illnesses involve no black or white market carts at all, instead resulted from nicotine vapes and date back as far as 2014-16 but it hasn't been until recent that the collection of data has deemed this an epidemic- if you took a few minute to read the article I posted by the Mayo Clinic on the subject, you will see that this isn't even a case of lipid pneumonia like originally thought, as lipid laden macrophages where first discovered and assumed to be the results of accumulation of lipids(oils/cutters). Further research has now led researchers to believe the damage is more akin to caustic chemical burns. Read the article for yourself though if this doesn't make sense. I'm tired of going in circles with this. New info has come out, lets focus on that....
 

w01fg4ng

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And why must you turn everything into an arguing match?
It's a public forum. If you make a claim that marijuana is safe I have every right to prove you wrong.
 

Mafioso

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Legal alcohol is also not safe, however it is remarkably safer when regulated.
legal vapes are regulated in Oregon(many argue to a much higher degree than alcohol or tobacco),
It's a public forum. If you make a claim that marijuana is safe I have every right to prove you wrong.
I don't believe I ever made such a claim... I'm a firm believer in harm reduction and education of risks involved in drug activities. I'll admit I was wrong at the time if I had ever said or implied it was safe to smoke OR VAPE(TY WOLFIE, GOOD BOI)- maybe years ago in my early years on BL.... but def not in the past 2 years. Good luck tho finding that quote.


Back on topic... https://www.pmi.com/smoke-free-products/iqos-our-tobacco-heating-system Philip morris new vape, only FDA approved supposedly rumored to hit market any day now.... coincidence? haa ok maybe.... 22 ppl die per day of opioids, ,1300 from cigarettes, 2,200 from alochol, and the list grows with the real killers. Ok I'm done with the conspiracy theory for now.
 
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Mafioso

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lmfao wolf. great contribution. my bad, I meant vapes... thx for catching that.

edit: change it to smoke or vape, because I doubt I'd make either such claim. Now your simply trying to discredit me.
 

Cosmic Charlie

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I'm a little worried about buying these now because i go through the Black market, the people i deal with have always had quality products. But who really knows at the end of the day. For the last year tho i have been smoking only flower but my girlfriend wants me to buy a couple carts for her and a friend to use. I'm worried about if it could be a bad one, probably just lie and say i cant get it. A small white lie for the greater good is neccasary sometimes when it comes to the safety of your loved ones.

Thinking about buying a Volcano or something like that for us to use. Or maybe they have better vaping options than that these days. They really need to legalize Weed and atart regulating this stuff, its gonna get sold everywhere regardless. Might as well make sure people dont poison themselves you know.
 

Egzoset

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Hi again Mafioso,

...Egozet...
Such deep emotional involvement, since 2010 apparently... M'well, Egzoset likes to believe most people value their spare time in more creative ways. Personally i'll just try to get visual, instead of wasting energy on further reading. Anyway it's what's missing which i intended to register, possibly for future reference (in case i might want to review details of a coupable silence demonstrating rampant tolerance for repeated abuse of moderator privileges by some cyber-bully normally expected to promote "Harm Reduction", on The Wall of Shame. In any case be informed there's more suitable media where to share progress on vaporism!

:whistle:

Now this is my reply to the attention of those who waited patiently:

Peter Principle - The Egzoset Edition vs Cyber Bullying [400x300] .PNG

Good day, have fun!! ☮
 

phenethylo J

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I'm a little worried about buying these now because i go through the Black market, the people i deal with have always had quality products. But who really knows at the end of the day. For the last year tho i have been smoking only flower but my girlfriend wants me to buy a couple carts for her and a friend to use. I'm worried about if it could be a bad one, probably just lie and say i cant get it. A small white lie for the greater good is neccasary sometimes when it comes to the safety of your loved ones.

Thinking about buying a Volcano or something like that for us to use. Or maybe they have better vaping options than that these days. They really need to legalize Weed and atart regulating this stuff, its gonna get sold everywhere regardless. Might as well make sure people dont poison themselves you know.
I'd stay away from black market carts. Recently bought a cart from a friend for the first time in a long while. Usually just use extracts I get from a shop in my dabber or a dab pen. Started coughing up lots of phlegm from it then got pretty sick for 2 weeks.
Never really got issues when going though allot in a short period of time with my dabber. Also just smoke flower again for the first time in a while but don't think it was that since I noticed the cart bother me more and had to switch to the flower for a bit.

Just using some extracts from a shop now which is working allot better.

If you can find some legit source on wax or dissitlette I'd go with that and just use it in a pen or dabber.
 

Mafioso

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There's also fake wax and diamonds going around(pine tar rosin it's believed). So be on the watch for that as well. It's said to smell extremely piney or like licorice and is way more dense than shatter or diamonds should be.

And egozset, it was more than a full time job for me, also something I was very passionate about. kinda like that vape thingy you keep posting about- but w/e, I won't judge you, or at least I'll try not to. Anyways, you'll have to be a little more clear and less cryptic with the rest of the stuff you are trying to say, seems you are making some accusations there that should be brought up with an admin if you believe it to be an issue. But a word of wisdom, if you are going to go around trying to get people in trouble, you probably shouldn't be going around insulting them and calling them incompetent.

Maybe consider posting something relevant to the topic as well...
 

Mafioso

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"
A new study by a Colorado lab points to a new potential culprit in the nationwide wave of lung injuries caused by vaping: a rare disease caused by inhalation of a chemical present in many cheap vape pens that is used to fuse metals together.

The study used data from 53 patient cases in Wisconsin and Illinois who suffered severe lung illness due to vaping. From that study, the lab concluded that the vaping illness symptoms directly correlate to an advanced stage of a very rare disease, almost exclusively suffered by welders and others who inhale chemical concoctions, called Metal Fume Fever.

The advanced stage of Metal Fume Fever, which the lab believes are the equivalent of the vaping illnesses, is called Cadmium Pneumonitis.

The culprit chemical, according to the lab? Silver solder, which helps binds metals together in many cheaply manufactured vape pens, which contains the chemical cadmium. When inhaled, cadmium oxide fumes are highly toxic to organs, and according to the study the fumes "directly injure lung cells, leading to fluid accumulation, impaired lung function, and respiratory failure."

Silver solder is used to "make stable unions between dissimilar metals such as copper and stainless steel," the study reads. The appeal of lower-end vape pen manufacturers using silver solder is its low price: "Cadmium-containing silver solder is less expensive than cadmium-free alternatives and has improved flow properties which facilitate the joining of dissimilar metals found in vape pen electrical components," the study reads."

this would sense to me, since cutting agents have been used from the start of the industry, and vit e acetate hit the market somewhere around 2016-17. Then again, manufactures have been sourcing cheap Chinese manufactured carts from the beginning. Carts used to be plastic and a lot lower quality.

So much speculation and massive over coverage. 130 die every day in the US from opioids, 241 from alcohol related, 1,300 from smoking cigarettes.
 

Mafioso

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"
Out of the 1,080 cases, approximately 70% of patients are male. Approximately 80% of patients are under 35 years old. More than one-third of patients, or 37% are under 21 years old.


We have continued to assess what products patients have used and now have information for 578 patients with information on substances used in e-cigarette, or vaping, products in the three months prior to symptom onset we found that about 78% reported using THC-containing products and 37% reported using only THC-containing products. About 58% reported using nicotine-containing products and 17% reported using only nicotine-containing products."


interesting video about regulation about where the majority of ecigs, vape carts and batteries are made...
 

Thomas Davie

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Ccell cartridges are supposed to be okay if they are genuine (not talking about the content, but the tank)? ~6 Canadian LP's have signed production agreements with several US (and Cdn) vape companies. Some of the pen style manufacturers stated 'Ccell'; others nothing. Supposedly this is the kind of thing that Health Canada should be able to catch since all producers will be required to submit retail samples 60 days prior to sale. Cutting agents of any kind are supposed to be prohibited.

Pax Era pods use a wicking material of some kind?

Tom
 

Mafioso

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if they are genuine
one of the big problems, indeed.
Pax Era pods use a wicking material of some kind?
Not sure, so I won't say either way- but I can say that most are made of plastic that will degrade when in contact with hydrocarbon solvents(terpenes), which, again, not a chemist, but I'd imagine that left long enough, it would def not be something one would want to inhale.

Not sure how closely related Juul and Pax are in design and material, but just google "juul lawsuit" and you'll find no shortage of results. Lot of it is money hungry lawyers, as only 17% reported using only nic vapes, although 58% reported using both nic and thc.

There would probably be a whole lot more cannabis companies facing similar lawsuits, however, with the whole cannacart/brand counterfitting madness, it makes it harder to nail things down. Canna lawsuits and busts are definitely on the rise though.
 
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