The Big & Dandy LSZ Thread

etcetera

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Welcome to the LSZ Thread



LSD (left) ; LSZ (right)
Formula = Lysergic Acid 2,4-dimethylazetidide (LA-SS-Az, LSZ, LSz) - Usually the (S,S)-(+) isomer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_2,4-dimethylazetidide


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[original post:]

Pubmed:

Lysergamides of isomeric 2,4-dimethylazetidines map the binding orientation of the diethylamide moiety in the potent hallucinogenic agent N,N-diethyllysergamide (LSD).
Nichols DE, Frescas S, Marona-Lewicka D, Kurrasch-Orbaugh DM.

Department of Medicinal Chemistry and Molecular Pharmacology, School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907, USA. [email protected]

Lysergic acid amides were prepared from (R,R)-(-)-, (S,S)-(+)-, and cis-2,4-dimethyl azetidine. The dimethylazetidine moiety is considered here to be a rigid analogue of diethylamine, and thus, the target compounds are all conformationally constrained analogues of the potent hallucinogenic agent, N,N-diethyllysergamide, LSD-25. Pharmacological evaluation showed that (S,S)-(+)-2,4-dimethylazetidine gave a lysergamide with the highest LSD-like behavioral activity in the rat two lever drug discrimination model that was slightly more potent than LSD itself. This same diastereomer also had the highest affinity and functional potency at the rat serotonin 5-HT(2A) receptor, the presumed target for hallucinogenic agents, and a receptor affinity profile in a panel of screens that was most similar to that of LSD itself. Both cis- and the (R,R)-trans-dimethylazetidines gave lysergamides that were less potent in all relevant assays. The finding that the S,S-dimethylazetidine gave a lysergamide with pharmacology most similar to LSD indicates that the N,N-diethyl groups of LSD optimally bind when they are oriented in a conformation distinct from that observed in the solid state by X-ray crystallography. The incorporation of isomeric dialkylazetidines into other biologically active molecules may be a useful strategy to model the active conformations of dialkylamines and dialkylamides.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm020153s
 
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egor

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I keep hoping to see some assays on lysergic acid 2,4-dimethylazetidide as well as lysergic acid morpholide...
 

Solipsis

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More potent than LSD, are you kidding me? :D

But as I understand it 5-HT2 agonism is not a guarantee for psychedelic effects though many substances apparently have it as their absolute basis. Could someone explain to me how that is possible and how probable or certain it is that this dimethylazetidide is centrally active??
Also am I safe to assume that this compound is even more difficult to make than regular LSD aside from the fact that it has a much much shorter history?
 

Coolio

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I've got a teeny tiny amount which I'm looking for the right time to ingest. When I do, a report will be forthcoming...

Don't hold your breath though as I'm notoriously slow in such things :)
I hope you're storing it properly so it's still actually there when you go to unleash it.
 

GZero

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Did this ever come about? I'd love to know the results if anybody did ever try this compound.
 

kalle

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Oooh come on boys what happened?
Please tell that someone have some experience with it by now.

Perhaps fastandbulbous have played with it and just not report it?
 

TheAzo

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This, or similar, will probably become available fairly soon on the RC market, so we'll be hearing about it... assuming the guy planning to sell it doesn't manage to get himself thrown in jail for criminal stupidity first.
 

kalle

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This, or similar, will probably become available fairly soon on the RC market, so we'll be hearing about it... assuming the guy planning to sell it doesn't manage to get himself thrown in jail for criminal stupidity first.

Perhaps it's just me but i don't wish to buy something with no info at all.
Or I'm i just to picky?
 

Seventeen

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This is apparently entirely LEGAL in the UK, according to an RC chemist who's a FOAF (all acronyms aside, he actually). I'm very interested to see some TRs of this substance
 

8-12

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^ If I remember correctly, the one that's "coming soon" is the ETH-LAD analogue of the title compound.
 

demon66

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More potent than LSD, which as I recall is 25 to 35 ug for thresh hold effects. Of course this source (wikipedia) says this was confirmed from tests on rats.

If this was ever distributed for human consumption it would definately need to be cut with some kinda medium. Could you imagine dealing with something this potent in pure form?

Again I say everything here is speculation as no human tests have been recorded.

I'm suprised with the lack of info on this chem, no one have any info?
 
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greenmeanies

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without mentioning sources, i think this compound first showed up on BL thanks to a scammy vendor. so no actual information, only ideas and speculation.
 

Dondante

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More potent than LSD, which as I recall is 25 to 35 ug for thresh hold effects. Of course this source (wikipedia) says this was confirmed from tests on rats.
I have a miniscule amount (roughly 200 mcg, I think) that I've been waiting to try for a while now...next spring perhaps. Anecdotally, it is not more potent than LSD in human assays, but it is subjectively different. I wish I knew the duration.

One compound I would love to see become available is d-Lysergic acid morpholide (LSM). It's only 1/3 the potency of LSD, but it is similar in effects, and according to F&B, only lasts 6-8 hours. The compound would be legal, and would not involve LSD as an intermediate in the synthesis like ALD-52, AL-LAD, etc.

Speaking of which, I have tried 6-allyl-6-nor-lysergic acid diethylamide tartrate (AL-LAD) at 200 mcg, and generally found it to be less inspiring than its parent molecule. Of course, set and setting are confounding factors that are impossible to really control. Also, I've had so much variation between my LSD trips that it's difficult to directly compare the two based on a single experience. The length was the most obvious difference (steady decline from 4-6 hours, mostly down by 8 hours, sleep easy at 10 hours with 0.25 mg alprazolam). I have never slept on LSD before 14 hours. Visually, it was quite spectacular, but it seemed to lack, to some extent, the sense of open space and the tactile quality that I often get with LSD. The other big difference is that I could not for the life of me get much in the way of an erection. Erotic was there, erection was not. Vasoconstriction? I don't recall cold extremities. I also felt somewhat scattered throughout the experience, despite being cognitively intact. I was able to converse without problem, but I never quite settled in and felt at home with the compound. Overall, it was fun and there were lots of laughs, but I still prefer LSD. That said, keep in mind that I'm comparing it to my best LSD trips (there have been a couple mediocre ones as well).
 
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