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Lysergamides The Big & Dandy LSZ Thread

^ Good sir I may be mistaken but I believe I have seen you reviewing DMT samples as of late. No excuses! A trip report is needed ASAP! :)
bump i want to see that as well. oh and dmt isnt really tripping to me in the classical sense, since its over so quickly. it doesnt put any strain on the body like other psychedelics. i cna barely do any of em anymore, since my whole body will be aching for days and i often feel like my soul has been sucked dry for the following two days or so. dmt never does that sorta thing, its actually extremely refreshing. feels as if it restores lots of body functions that have lost their balance, like my appetite feel a lot more healthy. less paroxysmal, clear tendency towards appetite for whole food, fruit and stuff vs candy and meat usually developes right after i come off. also, dmt almost puts me to sleep. if i spent a few weeks sleeping too little without noticing due to (hypo)mania i often slide right off into sleep before opening my eyes after a dmt trip. seen this happen to two other people as well. now most long lasting psychedelics would just have me wired for hours. dmt calms me better than anything else, just a natural fleeting sense of serenity, how we should probably all be feeling most of the time.

id try this one though or some other obscure acid analogue. just send all the obscure psychedelics my way and ill selflessly make myself available as your lab hamster! ;)
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Lucky fucks
yeah, just cant help hating their guts... ;)
 
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bump i want to see that as well. oh and dmt isnt really tripping to me in the classical sense, since its over so quickly. it doesnt put any strain on the body like other psychedelics. i cna barely do any of em anymore, since my whole body will be aching for days and i often feel like my soul has been sucked dry for the following two days or so. dmt never does that sorta thing, its actually extremely refreshing. feels as if it restores lots of body functions that have lost their balance, like my appetite feel a lot more healthy. less paroxysmal, clear tendency towards appetite for whole food, fruit and stuff vs candy and meat usually developes right after i come off. also, dmt almost puts me to sleep. if i spent a few weeks sleeping too little without noticing due to (hypo)mania i often slide right off into sleep before opening my eyes after a dmt trip. seen this happen to two other people as well. now most long lasting psychedelics would just have me wired for hours. dmt calms me better than anything else, just a natural fleeting sense of serenity, how we should probably all be feeling most of the time.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. After many years of taking more psychedelics than I can keep track of, I have never ever felt like my "soul has been sucked dry" afterwards (except after one traumatic trip, but that was because I'd put myself through hell). On the contrary, many of my trips have left me with an afterglow, a sense of refreshment or rejuvenation. And I'm talking about non-DMT compounds.

Just because Rick Strassman made the wild claim that DMT is the "spirit molecule", doesn't mean that it is. And it's insane to think that it's the only psychedelic which can catalyze positive changes in you. Psychedelics are psychedelics. Any other fanciful notions we attach to them are just in our minds.
 
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. After many years of taking more psychedelics than I can keep track of, I have never ever felt like my "soul has been sucked dry" afterwards (except after one traumatic trip, but that was because I'd put myself through hell). On the contrary, many of my trips have left me with an afterglow, a sense of refreshment or rejuvenation. And I'm talking about non-DMT compounds.

Just because Rick Strassman made the wild claim that DMT is the "spirit molecule", doesn't mean that it is. And it's insane to think that it's the only psychedelic which can catalyze positive changes in you. Psychedelics are psychedelics. Any other fanciful notions we attach to them are just in our minds.
I used to get afterglows, but these days I'm just depressed after coming off. Might very well be due to the fact that the few instances in which I've still used long lasting psychedelics have either been unintentional doses (don't ask), or have happened towards the tail end of my episode of massive psychedelics abuse. I've had times when I tripped daily for weeks. Skeletal muscle hypertension got increasingly worse throughout those years and these days my body jsut feels violated as soon as effects begin to faded. I tried all kinds of stretching exercises, free-flowing yoga type stuff etc. Tried to work it out on a fucntional level somehow, but never had much success and like I said, it just got worse and worse up to a point where I can't take the stuff anymore without feeling brutally violated for days. Same goes for the psychological level, though I suspect this would be different if I was actually opening myself for change when I trip. I'd still love to have a full-blown "change-inducing" experience every now and then, but it's not gonna happen before I'm in that mindspace where the time is right for change. Otherwise, depreshing crushes me as soon as I come off. The afterglow used to last weeks at first, especially after my first acid trips, but also during my mushroom honeymoon phase it'd still be very desirable and lasting several days. Eventually this came to an end and only mescaline managed to bring back such an afterglow a couple of times.

Now your overall tone seems very offensive if I may say so. You are making assumptions that seem to be emit solely from your own mind's expectations.
A I've never read any books or papers by Strassman. Not a single one.
B I've never said other psychedelic cannot induce change. Though ultimately I don't think any drug induces real change in itself. DMT doesn't and neither does any other psychedelic. We are the ones that bring change into our lives.

That being said, DMT still holds a very special position amongst psychedelics. Not only to me in a sentimental fashion, which surely is the case, but also because of it's occurence in nature, and it's most remarkable pharmacologic profile (which really shouldn't be debated in this thread I guess, but the fact that all evidence seems to suggest it's the most important endogenous ligand for the sigma-1 receptor alone should be noteworthy). Oh right and a growing religious community utilizes it and has received permission in numerous nations to do so. I don't see why DMT should be looked at in the same way as other psychedelics IF that was what you were trying to suggest. Each substance deserves some attention in itself and should never be assumed to have an identitcal activity pharmacologic profile as another of course, but in the case of DMT... I don't even look at my occasional DMT use as problematic opposed to all other recreational/performance enhancing drugs I use or abuse. For me personally, it just takes a very special place, because it makes me feel refreshed and healthy on every level imaginable and other psychedelics don't. Simple as that, was all I was saying. I don't make that statement by choice, it's not forced, but it's describing exactly what I've experienced over and over and over again.
 
Just because Rick Strassman made the wild claim that DMT is the "spirit molecule", doesn't mean that it is. And it's insane to think that it's the only psychedelic which can catalyze positive changes in you. Psychedelics are psychedelics. Any other fanciful notions we attach to them are just in our minds.

Bloody well said, here here !
 
Any other fanciful notions we attach to them are just in our minds.
The notion of "reality" vs. "just in our minds" also just exists in our minds. I don't see how anything we perceive is not in itself wondrous and fanciful. I also don't see any reason to subtract from a fanciful phenomenom's subjectively perceived magic, aside from satisfying people like you who oviously don't enjoy other people believing in the little magic that life in modern western society leaves to them. I'd much rather have you calling me a whackjob instead of admitting that all the things I've experienced on said drug are meaningless. "just in my mind" yeah ofc they are, what isn't just in our minds?! Is it that important that only things are deemed valid, that can be perceived by other people in the same fashion as we perceive them, things that can be measured, reproduced and dissected? Or can we just accept that our experience might considerably differ from the next person's experience and there will sometimes not be a common grounds uniting all these experiences in scientific agreement. Why is everyone not accepting that considered "insane" (yes, I'm freely quoting you, here)? What's the gain in that?
 
i hadn't heard of it until just now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_2,4-dimethylazetidide

"It was developed as a rigid analogue of LSD with the diethylamide group constrained into an azetidine ring in order to map the binding site at the 5-HT2A receptor."

that's kind of what they ("a team at Purdue University led by David E. Nichols.") did with mda to make mdai "a non-neurotoxic and highly selective serotonin releasing agent (SSRA)"
 
The notion of "reality" vs. "just in our minds" also just exists in our minds. I don't see how anything we perceive is not in itself wondrous and fanciful.

one word for you. SCIENCE. Measurable, and repeatable.
 
cr00k I've had the same experience as you. At some point last year all afterglow was replaced with depression and physical malaise.

I learned my lesson and I limit the psychedelia to once every couple of months now, with an occasional exception here or there. Things are much much better now, but I still can't get back to the honeymoon phase. A lot of former favorites are hard on my body and my mind now.
 
@JBrandon
Yeah and it seems we aren't the only ones either. I cannot put my finger on who it was exactly, but I'm quite certain I've talked to at least one person before who experienced this type of qualitative degradation of his psychedelic experiences in terms of increased side effects after a long period of heavy use. Other people seem to be fine even after decades of heavy use. In my case, it might very well be due to me being bipolar, but there really is no telling what the exact reasons are as of now.
one word for you. SCIENCE. Measurable, and repeatable.
Exactly. But the very notion of everything we consider real to fit into this pattern of being repeatable and measurable is nothing more than a belief in itself. A belief dictates it's believers what is to be considered "knowledge" and what isn't, I guess you could say belief is located upstream relative to knowledge. Without belief, there is no knowledge. If you deny science is based on a set of beliefs, then you obviously don't know the first thing about scientific theory. I'm not naive to science, neither do I not believe in it (just trust me on that one). I merely allow myself to extend my reality past what science allows me to consider part of it by extending my set of beliefs. And that extension happens through whichever personal experience does not fit into said concept, but nonetheless has a very profound meaning to me personally. Call me delusional or crazy or insane, and while you're at it, call the other 5 billion religious people on earth crazy. And enjoy your very limited version of reality, that reality which is layed out before every living person (with an internet connection lol) like an open book. I just don't see the gain in that, except being able to high-five the next scientist you meet for being sane and well educated.
 
The Small & Handy LSZ Thread

So I see next to no information on here about these two substances, but I know for a fact that both are making the rounds in some corners of the internet. I have personally tried AL-LAD... and while I have not sent any to a lab to be tested, I have strong reasons to believe it is what it is being sold as. It is very similar to lsd in many aspects: it has very little perceivable flavor, (which rules out most options) it is active in small enough doses to fit on lsd-sized blotter, and it's effects are VERY similar to, but seemingly different from, lsd. I suppose it IS possible that it is just lsd being sold as al-lad both for novelty purposes and so it can more openly be sold online, but I don't believe this to be the case. The duration is shorter and the comedown is more gradual, and the actual high seems more euphoric and seems like it causes less mental obstruction. The vendor I received it from is including some LSZ with my next order and I am very interested in trying that to see if that is any different from the al-lad, which would mostly rule out the idea that it is all LSD. Does anyone else have opinions on this? Has anyone tried this stuff as well and have any feedback on the subject? This topic is now open for discussion.
 
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I am slightly hesitant about these novel ergoloid research compounds being introduced lately. They have opened a floodgate of demand, which means there is a large incentive to offer such products for chemical vendors. And on occasion these chemical vendors are not the most honest individuals, so I wouldn't put it past some to misrepresent LSD as LSZ or AL-LAD. I just want to throw it out there, since the legality of these compounds is what makes them desirable, and it would be unfortunate for someone to face legal issues for purchasing something they thought was completely legal.
I hope this isn't occurring, and look forward to some independent analysis done by 3rd party labs to verify these compounds. Until then, I hope you all stay safe!
 
I have doubts that a vendor would willingly try to pass off an illegal substance as a legal one.. its just not worth it for them, nor does it really make any sense. If anything theyre the ones who are going to be in the legal clusterfuck
 
I have doubts that a vendor would willingly try to pass off an illegal substance as a legal one.. its just not worth it for them, nor does it really make any sense . If anything theyre the ones who are going to be in the legal clusterfuck
I was simply stating this so individuals on the consumer end may protect themselves. It actually makes plenty of sense for an individual to take a cheaper, illegal product and sell it as something that is more expensive and legal. This makes financial and business sense as not only are they generating greater profits, they are able to market their product to a broader customer base. We have seen this before many times with the regulation of compounds coming about, and those compounds promptly being distributed as their legal 'replacements'.

Edit: I've said it before and I'll say it again, vendors are already long known to misrepresent illegal products as legal products in an effort to gain/maintain sales. This has been seen when mephedrone, methylone, MDPV and numerous cannabinoids were made illegal yet still sold as other compounds that are legal, so arguments of vendors being unwilling to assume such risk are not viable. Yes the market for LSD is larger than that of novel ergoloids, but that does not mean they are equally profitable. Lastly, this is not an issue of being disappointed by the subjective effects one experiences from the product they receive, this is an issue of assuming huge legal consequences unknowingly by an unscrupulous vendor.
 
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The market for real LSD is way bigger than the market for some rare ergoloids sold to online drug enthusiasts. Deception may occur, but its more likely with much lower value substances like 25i, it doesn't make much sense to use LSD.
 
^ Exactly.

The risk factor is what does not make any sense at all. For me, personally, buying these 'rare' compounds online is magnitudes of order cheaper than acquiring LSD or shrooms or mdma and so on and so forth in real life. The differences are actually absurd.. why spend $10 on a tab of LSD when I can spend a couple cents on a hit of 25i, and on the flipside, why not sell something like that as one of these rare ergoloids that no one really knows anything about. No one with a real business sense in this grey market dealing in already suspicious compounds would try to pass off a truly illegal one as a legal one. Not only would users notice, but law enforcement certainly would. I think its a bit naive to think that law enforcement agencies around the world arent already keeping tabs on such vendors.. if we can find them so can they. The end consumer should always be aware of dupes and scams, but imo I think the last thing anyone need worry about is actually getting LSD instead of something like LSZ or AL-LAD.. and yeah you may be a bit upset to find out you didnt get to try a rare compound, but how upset would you really be? you still got acid. And that begs the question, how do you even tell the difference at all if the compounds are supposedly so similar, no tests exist and both come on a blotter? ignorance is bliss.
 
I too am skeptical of these ergoloid analogues that have been appearing lately. If I'm not mistaken, to produce either lsz or al-lad, one would need to produce LSD first (someone correct me if I'm wrong, maybe there's a way around it), but either way these vendors would need to be getting there hands on some very highly controlled precursors.

I don't completely doubt that they are being produced (hell, I would love to try them both) but it just seems a little fishy to me.
 
Not necessarily I think. There seems to be a way around it if the AL part of AL-LAD is put on there at a very early stage. ;) Depending on the type of reactions along the way it may be necessary to use a protective group because allyl is somewhat reactive in certain situations. That is about as far as I'm willing to go regarding synth discussion.

But you are absolutely right IMO: if a lab gets caught with the precursors I don't know if they would be able to justify themselves saying that they are busy doing a custom non LSD synth.

It's probably not the vendors themselves that would be doing that, I don't think. If they are sourcing it clandestinely or making it themselves they would obviously not be able to justify their general practices.

I still haven't checked if I would be able to get a qualitative analysis and I haven't even bought AL-LAD yet and I might be too late now.
 
Legitimate AL-LAD is most definitely available at this moment, and the very same lab (well, the only genuine one I know of) is currently at work producing LSZ. Both of these compounds can be produced without synthesizing LSD itself at any point, though from what I understand this is actually not an issue for the lab in question.

I do agree, however, that there are a large number of individuals who are only taking advantage of the recent availability and resulting demand for novel lysergamides, and that one should exercise caution when dealing with potential sellers of these ergoloids in particular. I don't want to break rules with supply talk but there is very good reason to be extremely wary of anyone claiming to offer these compounds as research chemicals.
 
Someone apporoached me with "LSZ" powder, and at first I didn't even believe them, but then they also offered AL-LAD blots for sale, standard strength, and I was just like "Damn even if one or the other turns up fake it would still be terribly interesting to try atleast one!", will most likely purchase a bit of both, allergy test, then do a real amount/re[prt back!
 
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