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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy 4-HO-McPT Thread

Kaleida

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Welcome to the Small & Handy 4-HO-McPT Thread!



4-hydroxy-N-methyl-N-cyclopropyltryptamine

This novel tryptamine has recently become widely available to those who know where to find it. I am not yet aware of anyone having taken it and come back to report on the effects, but I do know that many are interested and I know of at least one person who is planning to soon, if they haven't already. I also will be contributing my own experience to it some point, when I work my way to it. For that reason, I have decided to start up this thread in anticipation of what is to come. However, before I wrap this up, please heed the following warning.

This is an entirely novel psychedelic so I must urge caution to all those out there who intend to or are considering trying it for themselves. Though so far the class of chemicals it comes from appears to produce fewer risky physical effects than many others on average, there is no way to tell how anyone will react to an entirely new molecule until they actually do it and find out. Please, if you do plan to take this chemical, know your sensitivity to these kinds of psychedelics first and start with reasonable doses before working your way up.

That said, in the case that you do take 4-HO-McPT, please consider adding any important information about your experience to this thread as well, so that others will be more educated about its effects and safety. Due to the popularity of many closely related chemicals to this one and the recent outgrowth of tryptamines it seems likely that many people will be trying this one for themselves if they get the chance, so the more information we have about it really will greatly benefit everyone, especially since we're starting from basically nothing.

Alright, let the information gathering begin!
 

Kaleida

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I really could not say with any amount of certainty, but the only McPT trip report I'm aware of found it to be active in a similar dosage range to MiPT, but more alike the straight chain alkyl tryptamines in effect than MiPT is if I'm not mistaken. This would make enough sense to me since the structure is basically the same minus the extra bond which holds the two end carbons on the tail a bit closer together, so I figure you'd expect it to bind pretty similarly. So, for 4-HO-McPT, personally if I had no other reference I would probably go into it treating it like it had similar doses to 4-HO-MiPT, but maybe with the precaution that it could be a little more powerful of a trip by weight.

That's probably the best advice I think I could give with my level of knowledge, but again, it's all just theory. Just try to be as safe as possible when you try it! I doubt that this particular class of chemicals has much inherent danger based on past experiences and what I've read about them, but you never know what's going to turn out to be dangerous for some unforeseen reason....
 

Solipsis

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Really cool that you're sampling these novel tryptamines :D
Not sure if they were sold out in an instant but they were gone when I got there.. but i have a budget to stick to anyway..
Thanks for reporting on them, at least for starters with the 4-HO-EPT..
 

Kaleida

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You're telling me, I've been pumped 24/7 since they showed up. :D It's a shame that they're already sold out though, I wonder if there's plans to get more or if it will now come down to those who already got some to see how they go....

But yeah, I was definitely just really lucky to notice them when I did. I was already aware of the source and their adventurousness and had been watching them like a hawk. I managed to get myself a pretty good personal supply of most of them too, I think I'm going to be pretty satisfied without even having to seek out anything else for some time now. :)

And no problem! I'm glad to contribute my experiences and thoughts. 4-HO-EPT really has been a cool one for me so far too, it's got me even more excited for the others. I'll also be soon writing about MET, MPT, EPT, and DPT which I actually haven't tried yet.... After I've done that, I'll actually have tried every base or 4-hydroxy tryptamine with a tail using every combination of only methyls, ethyls, and propyls except for DET, which I unfortunately cannot get as a research chemical as it has been illegal here for a long time. I still hope to find it one day somehow, but until then it will haunt my dreams.... But, at least I'll have my otherwise completely full checklist to hold me over until then. =D
 

fractal fountain

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*BUMP*

Has anyone tried this one yet? Still eagerly waitingon trip reports so we can figure out if it's worth getting or not. It's definitely high upon my wish list along with the other novel 4 subs. so if you've taken it post! Kaledia, are you planning to trip with this one soon? I know you recently did 4-ho-EPT but I think it's about time for some reports on this one! Pretty please!
 

Xorkoth

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I concur! I'm really interested in this one, since we haven't seen anything quite like it before.
 

Kaleida

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I know, I really figured we would have seen something on it by now! However, the person I mentioned in the opening post who was considering trying it recently reached out to me and said they got sidetracked with life but were now planning it again soon, so that's at least one source of information coming up.

fractal fountain, I am planning to use it relatively soon one way or another, though I haven't quite picked a date. The reason I actually didn't plan to go with it right after 4-HO-EPT was just to give someone else a chance to try a new chemical first, but after a long enough time without any new information I'm definitely getting a little antsy. I was planning to smoke MET some time this weekend before work and then take a high oral dose of MiPT next weekend, but I haven't been feeling it as much as I thought I would be honestly. I still definitely am interested in MET too, but I think if Monday (my best full trip day) rolls around and I feel like doing something fuller and more long-lasting, I might take 4-HO-McPT instead. Decisions, decisions....

I've definitely got high hopes for it too though, for a substance with nothing written on it anyway. The propyl and isopropyl derivatives are already quite interesting and worthwhile, I don't see why the cyclopropyl wouldn't be too!
 

TheAppleCore

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I've got quite an itchy trigger-finger on this one, too. The only thing stopping me is the speculation that the cyclopropyl group might represent the potential for cytotoxicity / DNA alkylation. However, bluelighter Erny appears to indicate here that the metabolism of a tryptamine with a cyclopropyl substitution is unlikely to pose any risk (if I'm reading that correctly).

Regardless, my pharmacology knowledge is pretty much nonexistent, so can someone who knows what they're talking about chime in here?
 

Coolfriday

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Possibly sometime either this week or next I will be doing my first experiment with 4-HO-MCPT (I am the one Kaleida mentioned above). I will treat this one very carefully and will try report back with some information!
 

Kaleida

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I've got quite an itchy trigger-finger on this one, too. The only thing stopping me is the speculation that the cyclopropyl group might represent the potential for cytotoxicity / DNA alkylation. However, bluelighter Erny appears to indicate here that the metabolism of a tryptamine with a cyclopropyl substitution is unlikely to pose any risk (if I'm reading that correctly).

Regardless, my pharmacology knowledge is pretty much nonexistent, so can someone who knows what they're talking about chime in here?

I can't pretend to know much about the DNA alkylation, but the fact that he and a couple others don't seem to worried about it is comforting. Still, something to keep in the back of the mind.... However, after reading through that I am now personally much more concerned about the fact that N-cyclopropyltryptamines apparently act as monoamine oxidase inhibitors. If 4-HO-McPT retains this activity as well then that could make it a good deal more dangerous than other 4-substituted tryptamines, possibly on its own but more seriously I think in combinations, as these chemicals are often used. It would probably be very wise for anyone reading this and considering trying this molecule to not combine it with anything at all that you would not take with an established MAOI....

Possibly sometime either this week or next I will be doing my first experiment with 4-HO-MCPT (I am the one Kaleida mentioned above). I will treat this one very carefully and will try report back with some information!

Can't wait to hear what you've got to say! :D
 

Incunabula

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^^ Me too. This is one I just have to try, if not just for the novelty of the N-cyclopropyl group.
 

Bigazznugz

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So with talk of the cyclopropyl group messing up dna, my question is what would be the harmfull side effects accociated with it. Im sorry but it just beyond my relm of knowledge.
Also if its a maoi potentiating chemical then would do you have to worry about besides medication interaction? I think foods also can mess with maois.
And lastly if it is a maoi and you (godforbid) have a bad reaction what would happen?
Thx all
Nugz
 

Kaleida

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I unfortunately can't speak to what damage could be caused, but I would love for someone more knowledgeable to chime in. All I know about these alkylating agents from the brief searching I've done so far is that they are sometimes used to kill cancer cells.... So, I guess it's probably not going to outright kill you if they already give them to people regularly, but just because they're worth taking to cancer patients doesn't necessarily mean they'll be worth it to people without some terrible health issues to get rid of to balance it out either.

From my brief reading on the MAOI activity of N-cyclopropyltryptamines, it looks like they're reversible inhibitors like the harmala alkaloids. However, I'm not sure if they only are functionally like them or if they actually work by the same specific mechanism(s). If they are like the harmala alkaloids then the dietary restrictions might not really be a serious issue, as much as people talk about the diet being important I've never heard of someone having a bad reaction to foods from harmalas, and I've known people to eat very tyramine-rich foods while tripping on ayahuasca regularly. But, if the mechanism is different and somehow does not allow for whatever causes the harmalas to be safer, then it could still be potentially quite risky to eat those foods. It still shouldn't last beyond the duration of the drug itself though, unlike the older pharmaceutical MAOIs.

If you do have a bad reaction from the MAOI effects, what would happen depends entirely upon what causes the reaction, because it's not going to be the MAOI effects themselves but whatever has its metabolism prevented by them. To my understanding, the primary result of having too high tyramine combined with MAOIs is a hypertensive crisis, and if you are worried about it I would very much recommend looking up some lists of MAOI diets, they are quite common. With anything else, it's either going to be that the drug you mix it with is directly potentiated enough to cause an overdose and whatever typical symptoms it would bring along with that, or it's going to be that some neurochemical effects of the drug you mix it with are potentiated, such as preventing metabolism of the serotonin released by an empathogen and causing serotonin syndrome.

Basically, if you start having a negative monoamine oxidase inhibition-based reaction, you should probably get yourself to a hospital pretty quickly. However, if you actually plan it properly going in ahead of time, it's extremely easy to avoid such a reaction. MAOIs with even heavier dietary and drug restrictions have been used medicinally for a long time and are not considered to be particularly dangerous to anyone who just follows the rules of their use like with anything.
 

Coolfriday

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When I do test it I want to do it in the best way possible... so I'll make sure I quite hydrated days ahead and the day of, empty stomach for a least 4 hours before ingestion, have a well balanced meal early in the day (I'll avoid food with any MAOIs), supplements/vitamins, 8 hours of sleep, etc. I've just been in a weird spot recently with my personal life so that's why I've held back on doing it already, but I feel like I'm back in a good spot again so I'm giving myself the green light. I'll also have a close friend of mine trip sitting in case anything does go wrong, and if it does either he or myself will report back here as soon as possible with details in hopes of helping others who read this. I also have a small stash of benzos on hand that I only use for bad trips so I will keep that close as well (if mixing benzos with this is a bad idea please let me know).

The only thing that I am unsure of at the moment is the dosage. I have already done the allergy test and there was no problems. I'm just worried that I might take too much but at the same time I don't want to take too little (you can always take more but you can never take less). I won't redose because I feel that like a tolerance might be built and would screw up my results. I feel like 20mg might be a good starting point but I also want to hear what others might think.
 

Hodor

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In Tranylcypromine ("Parnate"), the cyclopropyl group does indeed lead to Irreversible MAO Inhibition. However, the cyclopropyl in that drug is sandwiched between the Phenyl and the amine (it's essentially just amphetamine with the ethyl and alpha-methyl groups fused into a cyclopropyl ring). With 4-HO-McPT, on the other hand, the cyclopropyl is only connected to the terminal amine, so maybe it could get dealkylated/deaminated without permanently gumming up the enzyme.

As for DNA damage - there is a number of prescription pharmaceuticals with cyclopropyl groups attached to them that would probably have been taken off the market already if they were carcinogenic in any significant way; Prazepam, for one, comes to mind. Since the average psychonaut probably isn't going to ingest more than one-hundred miligrams of 4-HO-McPT in a month, I kind of doubt you're exposing yourself to a major cancer risk with it either.
 

Sir Ron Pib

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Oh this is out...that it might be similar potency to 4HO-MIPT 'might' be correct since 25mg MIPT was mild and 20mg of McPT was at the point where I thought it was more than placebo but wasn’t entirely sure. I agreed with the original report that 40mg of McPT is more like a dose but not with them likening it to MIPT in effect; it was very different
 

Kaleida

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When I do test it I want to do it in the best way possible... so I'll make sure I quite hydrated days ahead and the day of, empty stomach for a least 4 hours before ingestion, have a well balanced meal early in the day (I'll avoid food with any MAOIs), supplements/vitamins, 8 hours of sleep, etc. I've just been in a weird spot recently with my personal life so that's why I've held back on doing it already, but I feel like I'm back in a good spot again so I'm giving myself the green light. I'll also have a close friend of mine trip sitting in case anything does go wrong, and if it does either he or myself will report back here as soon as possible with details in hopes of helping others who read this. I also have a small stash of benzos on hand that I only use for bad trips so I will keep that close as well (if mixing benzos with this is a bad idea please let me know).

The only thing that I am unsure of at the moment is the dosage. I have already done the allergy test and there was no problems. I'm just worried that I might take too much but at the same time I don't want to take too little (you can always take more but you can never take less). I won't redose because I feel that like a tolerance might be built and would screw up my results. I feel like 20mg might be a good starting point but I also want to hear what others might think.

Sounds like you've got a great plan there, can't wait to hear how it all turns out! :) Also, to my knowledge benzos are generally not unsafe to mix with MAOIs, but you should probably at least do a couple quick web searches for the one you intend to use specifically to make sure that still applies to it.

As for the dose.... First of all, I feel I should point out that you probably also shouldn't redose for another reason: it could be, for instance, that 4-HO-McPT is not a MAOI but just a regular substrate that is metabolized into a MAOI, which would mean that if you spaced out the doses the successive doses would actually be increasingly more potent by weight than the first one. This is obviously not a good way to collect solid information on a brand new substance, nor is it really that safe of a possibility to take too many risks with at this point. So, yeah, I definitely think you should stick with that logic for whatever reason and not redose for now.

For a single dose, my best guess would be that 20 mg probably won't be too out of control. I'd feel comfortable starting at 25 mg myself, as I probably will, but I wouldn't go over that much for now. I probably wouldn't go under 20 mg either or I feel I'd risk being underwhelmed, but that is just based on my personal experience with other members of this chemical class, whereas for example I know someone who goes out of their mind on 15 mg of 4-HO-MiPT, so they would obviously be better off starting with a different kind of dose.

In Tranylcypromine ("Parnate"), the cyclopropyl group does indeed lead to Irreversible MAO Inhibition. However, the cyclopropyl in that drug is sandwiched between the Phenyl and the amine (it's essentially just amphetamine with the ethyl and alpha-methyl groups fused into a cyclopropyl ring). With 4-HO-McPT, on the other hand, the cyclopropyl is only connected to the terminal amine, so maybe it could get dealkylated/deaminated without permanently gumming up the enzyme.

As for DNA damage - there is a number of prescription pharmaceuticals with cyclopropyl groups attached to them that would probably have been taken off the market already if they were carcinogenic in any significant way; Prazepam, for one, comes to mind. Since the average psychonaut probably isn't going to ingest more than one-hundred miligrams of 4-HO-McPT in a month, I kind of doubt you're exposing yourself to a major cancer risk with it either.

I've been trying to do a little bit of reading on the monoamine oxidase inhibitory properties of cyclopropylamines when I can, and it does seem like there's some variance, and it makes me want to be more cautious that 4-HO-McPT could be an irreversible inhibitor as well. Though, notably, I did find one saying that NcPT and 7-MeO-NcPT successfully inhibited the metabolism of serotonin whereas 5-MeO-NcPT did not, so I wonder if the 4-HO substitution being on the same side of the ring will also disrupt activity there? It's worth noting as well that a few of these studies that ascribe irreversible inhibitory properties to some of these cyclopropyl molecules actually also say that the corresponding isopropyl versions are reversible inhibitors, so it may be worth considering that if there were going to be any serious issues we might have already noticed them with 4-HO-MiPT. Lots of things to consider....

Thanks for pointing out the prazepam too, I was really wondering what some of the supposed pharmaceuticals containing cyclopropyl groups might be. That definitely does give me some more confidence with it.

Oh this is out...that it might be similar potency to 4HO-MIPT 'might' be correct since 25mg MIPT was mild and 20mg of McPT was at the point where I thought it was more than placebo but wasn’t entirely sure. I agreed with the original report that 40mg of McPT is more like a dose but not with them likening it to MIPT in effect; it was very different

Thanks for the input, very interesting that you were able to try McPT as well. Would you mind expanding just a little bit on what makes it different from MiPT?
 

Hodor

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Thanks for pointing out the prazepam too, I was really wondering what some of the supposed pharmaceuticals containing cyclopropyl groups might be. That definitely does give me some more confidence with it.

Come to think about it, Prazepam is actually one of the more obscure drugs containing a cyclopropyl group.

Buprenorphine and Naltrexone also have one, and they're arguably far more widely used.
As is Ciprofloxacin (a highly effective broad-spectrum antibiotic) - granted, that one can actually be toxic a.f., but this seems to be related to the fluoroquinolone skeleton itself, not the little cyclopropyl. Plus, we are talking about a substance where a normal daily dose for an adult is 1,000 miligrams.
 

Sir Ron Pib

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Thanks for the input, very interesting that you were able to try McPT as well. Would you mind expanding just a little bit on what makes it different from MiPT?

Sure perhaps I’ll put my trip report up but for now I will quote a relevant passage:

"It is worth commenting on the comparison that has been drawn between this and MiPT (on Bluelight) but it wasn’t really like it from what I remember.
MiPT was “ok”; very mild (which is where the clumsy simile may come in) with a duration of 6-8hrs. It had a sort of generic synthetic trpytamine type signature and low key head space. You might be able to use it as a museum dose type thing or as a mild social or thinking type thing but it didn’t offer much. I don't know what a higher would do, it didn't seem it would necessarily provide much more. It didn't have the sensory aspect that some find in a couple of the 5MeOs.

Concluding, McPT is odd stuff‘ as is oft said of experimental chemicals.
It’s largely simply stoning with some visual component, and the stand out feature of this trip was the sudden in and out. It's brevity (orally) is unrivalled. (edit) it seemed to come on very suddenly and then evaporate, the most notable level of effect being little more than 20min.”

Worth noting the total duration was about 2hrs so the the ideal that the cyclopropyl turned to an isopropyl seems wrong (also plausably supported by some other data I’m aware of); most of the tests conducted by others were by insufflation and not considered outstanding but one party insufflated a very large amount and found it a candyflossDMT type experience of worth. Sadly never tried 4HO-MIPT but the fact it seems quite good when MIPT is modest suggests 4HO-McPT could be worthwhile but what alteration the hydroxy adds I don’t know. Hope that helps
 
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