Storing pill tester kits

[katmeow]

Marquis should definitely be kept at lower temperatures, although it should never be stored near food.

Unfortunately I live at home, so can't keep it in the fridge. It's in a dark cupboard away from the window at the mo... will this be alright?

 

[phase_dancer]

It's in a dark cupboard away from the window at the mo... will this be alright?

Marquis will slowly deteriorate over time as the formaldehyde polymerizes. This occurs because the sulphuric acid acts as a catalysis for the reaction (other reactions also occur). As the reaction rates are affected by temperature, these may be slowed by storing at lower temperatures.

Forensic literature states Marquis will last longer if kept in the fridge. I've confirmed this by comparing isolated samples from various batches stored at various temperature ranges. So, while a refrigerator may be considered an optimum storage medium, Marquis kept in a cool cupboard will last longer than if exposed to higher temps. However, unless you've access to a cellar or area where temps don't get close to those of a typical Australian summer, then the reagent will likely not last more than a few months.

As it deteriorates, the reagent will first become a light brown colour before gradually changing to a dark brown. While the observable differences may be harder to distinguish with an "off reagent", a light brown solution can generally still be used. But it's important to realise that sensitivity will effectively be less for some compounds, particularly those where the expected colour change is similar to the starting liquid.

 

[katmeow]

Thanks for the info p_d ... will keep an eye on it. Just bought it last weekend @ Earthcore from the Enlighten crew

 

[Ekstasis-//7]

Oh... My Robadope and Marquis is in a dark cupboard too... Damn I forgot that Marquis info sheet about putting in the fridge I read ages ago...

Hey Phase... so what about Mecke??

What if I just put the whole damn tub (ie containing all 6 bottles of the EZ-Complete) into the fridge for storage? You said Simons and the buffer may precipitate... but If let it warm up a little after taking out of the fridge and then shake it then the precipitaion should be gone yeah and the reagents work ok? Would there probably be no permanent damage to the kits?

Sorry to be a pain in the arse its just that I know if I separate some of the bottles out of the tub then it's way more likely some may get misplaced... If theres a descent risk of some of the reagents getting damaged from the cold of the fridge I'll separate it out. Please let me know what you think...

Thank you.

 

[phase_dancer]

Mecke reagent reportedly lasts for some time at room temperature.

However, of all the common reagents, Mecke contains perhaps the most toxic substance - selenious acid (aka selenous acid). While selenium present in the reagent is not as the originally added acid, the compounds are nevertheless still extremely toxic, and so the reagent should never be kept or used anywhere near food or areas where food is prepared. If a kitchen plate is used to test with, then IMHO this should not be used again for food.

The precipitate formed in simons does not readily re-dissolve. Applying an external heat source, or merely leaving the bottle open for any length of time at room temps will likely result in some acetaldehyde boiling off - potentially affecting reliability, and higher temperatures will destroy the reagent completely.

Unfortunately, in order to achieve maximum shelf life, these reagents do require different storage conditions.

 

[Ekstasis-//7]

Thanks Phase for your quick reply... much appreciated... So it seems I should ideally keep only the Marquis and Robadope in the fridge.

While selenium present in the reagent is not as the originally added acid, the compounds are nevertheless still extremely toxic, and so the reagent should never be kept or used anywhere near food or areas where food is prepared. If a kitchen plate is used to test with, then IMHO this should not be used again for food.

Damn this doesn't sound good So far I've used all the reagents including Mecke on the underside of either a small plate or the underside of a white coffee mug. These items where then thorourly washed with dishwashing detergent and then put back in the cupboard for use with food/drinks. Obviously the underside won't be touching food/drink but still you say its that potently toxic? So I'm guessing that if Mecke stored in the glass dropper bottle that is then inside the plastic EZ-complete tub is still too dangerous to be stored anywhere near food then there must be minute vapour leakages or something?!? Please tell me more... Some of the other reagents are pretty toxic but how toxic?? Should I use a bathroom sink rather than kitchen sink with detergent to wash plates used for reagent testing?? Any safety tips for reagent testing at home I would really appreciate...

Thanks again
Ekstasis

 

[phase_dancer]

I'm perhaps somewhat over-cautious when it comes to toxic chemicals but...


Here's ChemSupply's MSDS for Selenious acid

and from here

The Reference Dose (RfD) for chronic oral exposures is 0.005 mg/kg/day for both selenium and selenious acid (U.S. EPA, 1992a, 1992b). The subchronic RfDs for these compounds are the same as the chronic RfDs (U.S. EPA, 1992c).

In humans, inhalation of selenium or selenium compounds primarily affects the respiratory system. Dusts of elemental selenium and selenium dioxide can cause irritation of the skin and mucous membranes of the nose and throat, coughing, nosebleed, loss of sense of smell, dyspnea, bronchial spasms, bronchitis, and chemical pneumonia (Clinton, 1947; Hamilton, 1949). Other signs and symptoms following acute inhalation exposures include lacrimation, irritation and redness of the eyes, gastrointestinal distress (nausea and vomiting), depressed blood pressure, elevated pulse rate, headaches, dizziness, and malaise (ATSDR, 1989). In animals, acute inhalation exposures also result in severe respiratory effects including edema, hemorrhage, and interstitial pneumonitis (Hall et al., 1951; Dudley and Miller, 1937) as well as in splenic damage (congestion, fissuring red pulp, and increased polymorphonuclear leukocytes) and liver congestion and mild central atrophy (Hall et al., 1951). Information on toxicity of selenium in humans and animals following chronic inhalation exposures is not available, and subchronic and chronic inhalation Reference Concentrations have not been derived.

While selenious acid or the compounds present in Mecke reagent should not vaporise in the fridge, I'm concerned with the notion that says it's OK to keep anything that toxic or corrosive near food, or anywhere they could be picked up by children or others not acquainted with the nature of the reagents. Like all such chemicals, they need to be stored safely, away from food, little fingers and particularly from curious, "out of it" people. The testing person/s should also wear gloves and appropriate eye protection. In the lab, you wouldn't be allowed near a bottle of sulphuric acid without adequate safety measures being in place. It may sound boring, but IMO it's stupid to do otherwise. Acid in the eye can be a very serious situation. Likewise, any contamination of food could result in nasty outcomes.

It's the odd drip that could splash onto benches etc, or run down the side of the bottle or container, onto food.

My advice regarding the testing surface is to find an old white plate from somewhere - to use solely for testing purposes - or alternatively, use a piece of glass and a table light. Employing a low wattage bulb to avoid heat, the reactions are observed by placing the glass on top of the lamp shade.

Laboratory watch glasses make the best testing platforms IMO as they are curved and protect from the reagent running off the edge. They can be purchased easily from ebay or any scientific supplier. A good overhead light works well with a white ceramic tile, or better still, a ceramic 'spot test well'. I'd advise doing your testing in the laundry basin in preference to a bathroom vanity or kitchen sink.

Another thing is to remember to never mix up simons with Marquis, Mandelin or Mecke. Simons contains sodium nitroferrocyanide (aka nitroprusside) and that releases cyanide gas (HCN) if mixed with an acid. The amount produced may be small, but nevertheless, you don't want to inhale this gas full stop.

These chemicals are dangerous, so be responsible and handle them in a manner that offers maximum protection to yourself and others around you.

BTW, I'm not certain Robadope will be best if stored in a fridge. As I mentioned earlier, PM easy e if you want to know more as I believe this is an EZ test proprietary owned reagent.

 

[ChemicalMatey]

Really!? i have a mandelin and have used my kitchen plates before...uh oh... i am silly... i shouldve realised not to do so it being a highly toxic acid... maybe that information should be put on the kit... ... Is there any way it could leave a residue even though i wash it then put it in the ol dishwasher?? what should i do?? cheers

 

[phase_dancer]

^unlikely, but considering mandelin contains a vanadium compound, which is essentially a toxic heavy metal, would you want the risk (albeit slight) of any residue forming in the dish washer? A possible problem could also involve the porus nature of some older plates which is why I recommend having a special plate for testing which is not used for food.

I think you'll find the Enlighten reagents carry adequate warnings regarding the toxic nature of the contents. This extends to describing how the reagent should be handled and what do do if spillage occurs.

 

[Ekstasis-//7]

I PM'ed Easy E and asked about if I could keep Marquis and Roadope in the fridge or if it would likley damage them. His reply

Keeping the reagents cool (room temp) is the best way to keep them. As long as you don't freeze them they should be alright.

Damn I was kinda hoping for something a little more definative for keeping Robadope in the fride than "they should be alright". Oh well

Hey on another note when travelling what would be a small object I could take with me (other than a ceramic plate) that I could use for testing on... I know plastic is not supposed to be used but what if it was that white waxy plastic such as what vitamin pill bottles are made from.. (that stuff is strong enough to not be dissolved by 1,4B)

 

[Cowboy Mac]

1,4b is not an acid though; a reagent is. The best thing to use is a white ceramic tile, you can buy them for a few dollars.

 

[Ekstasis-//7]

^^eh... I dunno I think I'd feel too weird going all the way to a tilling shop then asking just for one small tile...

 

[OURLILFAMILY]

i use the back of an old dinner plate that is kept away from all my other plates. works well.

on a different note, i had a mate lick the plate believing it was acid(lsd), he ended up spitting it out in the sink and it had stains for ages(got them out though) burnt the fuck out oh his mouth though. he is a dickhead, but he did seem to have a good nite though.

 

[Cowboy Mac]

^^eh... I dunno I think I'd feel too weird going all the way to a tilling shop then asking just for one small tile...

Tile shops let you take small amounts for samples, just like paint chip samples.