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Questions and Info about loperamide

Janiac

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Jul 28, 2015
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Hi, I'm new here and have some questions re loperamide and its long term effects. I started to take this approx. two weeks ago for an abrupt w/drawal from about 10-15 codeine day. I have horrible stomach pain, repetitive, forceful vomiting and diarrhea for which I see a GI, still don't have a definitive diagnosis, just prescribes(d) the painkillers until he told me could not do any longer. So I read on this forum about lope and it has been a miracle until about three days ago, when I started to experience extreme blurriness, dizziness, like I'm on a boat in the ocean and its going up and down in the waves - really bad when Im walking can hardly walk straight, and weird muscle spasms, almost seizure like when I try to fall asleep. Im getting some anti-anxiety meds tomorrow from my Pscyh, and Ill probably stop taking the lope, but WTF is happening? I took with Prilosec and VitC, and more than anything Im so grateful the stomach pain and vomiting until my eyes come out of their sockets stopped. But I am scared about these symtoms, don't know if they are related to being two weeks off codeine and k-pin (that's the refill tomorrow), or if its side effects from the lope.

Anyone who has any info please share it, Im sure Im not the only one who would benefit. Thank you-Janiac
 
Yes. I am a heavy loperamide addict, upward of 200-400mg a day, and these, in my roughly year addiction to loperamde, are acute overdose symptoms and are rather universal and common. I OD'd, in fact, on upward of 800mg-a gram and I couldn't walk straight. you bend over at the waist, possibly something to do with the inhibition of the perstaltic mechanisms in the gut and some cross over to light muscle tensing as a reaction to it. Me and a friend (whom I also got *addicted* to OTC lope) call the blurry vision "lope eyes", it doesn't appear (no pun intended) to be permanent. I no longer get it (tolerance) but if I up my dose at any given time by a large amount it recurs. So despite literature concerning atypical Parkinsonism potentially from the elucidation of similar molecule structures; it's long term effects appear to be benign. I had to be narcan'd five times on my overdose, be careful, it is a real opioid.
 
I can't thank you enough. I'm caught in this loop of taking codeine for the pain and vomiting, then getting off cold turkey, and the same with klonopin. Loperamide works for the w/d symptoms and I think [revemt seizures from stopping klonopin - I know, otherwise I would be in the hospital, have already had about six seizures over the past year from these hi-jins. Anyway I took about 100mg of lpe today and think its just too much as I had extreme side effects. Another thing - you do not sleep on this drug. I have been able to sleep about 4 hours max each night, getting Benadryl tonight, and going down to 4-60 mg lope after. How long does it take to develop a habit - I know if is topped taking them now abruptly I wld probably die or close to it. Am I safe with 40 mg to 60mg
 
200mg seems to be safe high-end starting point to a non-opiate naive individual, as a starting dose from long periods of being off of any substances (e.g. someone who has been addicted to other opioids for extended periods), I got out of Walla Walla penitentiary late last year and began my regimen at around 100 pills (200mg), stay away from the gel-tabs, they seem to upset ones stomach at large doses. Also the simethicone as a second active ingredient in brand name Imodium doesn't seem to be a problem in high doses either; I cannot say for extended periods, but I've had to resort to taking more than seventy Imodium name pills as a one time replacement to my generic "loperamide only" pills I prefer, and have had no ill effect. But this was a one-off substitution in an extenuating situation; I wouldn't recommend sustaining on this, who knows what the effects in the long term of simethicone over-use may entail if done consistently. Be aware of the contents. I think the amount of anhydrous lactose and other pill binding inert constituents of the pills may have led to cases of extreme digestive irritability; I had to dial 911 for an ambulance from my front porch when I had such a case of extreme acid reflux it lasted for four hours and I thought it would be a heart-attack. They gave me an internal cock-tail of lidocaine to swallow and prescribed me carafate to take as needed. It helped with the spells, but they were unbearable on the pain scale, certainly not a normal effect and I have never had a history of such problems before my inordinate and copious OTC pill intake.

Four 72ct bottles are the most I've taken at once and been fine, the day after, I took four 96ct bottles at once and OD'd, so there was some lingering from the day before, which is why I say my OD was between 800mg-&-1,250mg. I was hit with naloxone fives times, they wanted to give me a sixth shot before moving me out of ICU but I refused it: if I hadn't been awake before I went out and collapsed, I wouldn't have been able to inform them that it was an opioid overdose and may not have made it. Luckily I was out doing chores in public at the Dept. of Social Health Services (DSHS) building getting some things done or I may have fell out at home and been done for. Note: they say loperamide withdrawal is worse than methadone withdrawal, and since being dependent, I haven't gone more than two days without because it is easily accessible; I will say though, at day two, it felt just like the peak of that first narcan shot; but sustained, not lasting only ten minutes; my skin felt like it was on fire and spontaneous dunked under ice water at once; I was vomiting uncontrollably, which I never did in my seven years of heroin dependance (I puked near the end of a kick, three days after the worst of it, usually); so it is definitely much worse than heroin; I've also heard it said that WD from lope *peaks* four to seven days into it; so I wasn't even half-way to the worst of it. WD from lope may even be fatal like benzo WD; I certainly think I wouldn't *want* to survive it if it came down to that. It's a nightmare; also; the state funded local methadone clinic goes by FDA regulations, and though it was a schedule I substance in 1977; it isn't recognized as such now and I cannot get on MD maintenance to get me off of it. The county jails don't even care and won't even put me in the detox tank if I get hemmed up; I also test as a false positive for benzos and my probation officer, who knows of my habit, said; after denying it at first, that the false positive may be do to strange interactive metabolites of long term lope use. If it does something lke metabolize in vivo to a benzo like substance; that could explain the way worse feel of coming off of a long habit and the blurry vision; benzos give me blurry vision too. So in short; don't catch a big habit of this stuff, neurochemical pharmacology has been a hobby of mine for seven years, and it took that erudition for me to find an addiction *worse* than heroin; and it is the down side for my self study; the internet has things you can find that the general public is completely in the dark about; and it is right under our noses. Sometimes when a door is locked; God gives you a brick to break the window with to get in; but expect to get cut badly on the way through.
 
you're taking too much. cut the dose by 80% at least.

I'm not sure why someone is recommending you take hundreds of milligrams to alleviate withdrawal symptoms, but you can safely disregard that information wholesale.
 
One gram of loperamide 8o and withdrawal that feels like a naloxone shot 8o I know nothing that feels as bad as naloxone, for me even whilst not being physically tolerant to opioids (not counting my seemingly naturally high tolerance to them) and I had it just nasally, never injected. It´s a really different level even compared to an overdose of some psychedelic.

There is really some interaction between peripheral opioid receptors and the CNS; while on memantine (which I cannot stress enough, if you respond to it, it´s maybe the best med available for alleviating opioid w/d) I thought to feel a brief, light sedation from just 4mg loperamide sublingually and 8mg reduced the size of my pupils slightly. I can´t completely exclude the possibility of placebo effects but there´s also a study where administering an NMDA antagonist with loperamide enhanced its antinociceptive effects in rats (which lope, being just peripherally active, should be completely devoid of, imho).
 
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you're taking too much. cut the dose by 80% at least.

I'm not sure why someone is recommending you take hundreds of milligrams to alleviate withdrawal symptoms, but you can safely disregard that information wholesale.

Firstly, no one told me, I've studied pharmacology as a hobbyist for over seven years.

It has nothing to do with "alleviating withdrawal symptoms", I'm straight hooked on it, if I "cut the dose 80%" I'd go into horrendous, heinous, withdrawal, did you even read my post? I got a nod off of it at that dose when I started, and have been taking it at that dose for well over a year.
 
Firstly, no one told me, I've studied pharmacology as a hobbyist for over seven years.

Then I'm sure you are well aware of the whole torsade de pointes issue here then. Please taper down now, and not at a "comfy pace", but fast and brutal, it will hurt, but your life is hanging on a microscopically thin string right now.
 
Look at the patent, there is a table of the ratio between just bunging you up and acting as a central opiate. The ratio is 615. It appears (from near fatalities) that the dose-response has a 2-phase dosage. Once the ABC transport cannot remove it fast enough so you get 'high... kinda).
If you remove the CL, you end up with something much more useful.
 
Seeing all this they'd probably be better off by just selling codeine OTC as it is in Switzerland (albeit it's hard to actually get it often, even more so if you look 'suspicious', are a young man, etc…)

clubcard, so this means without the aid of a P-gp inhibitor, I'd have to take 615mg or more to get a central effect … somehow I think this number is a bit too high.
 
Then I'm sure you are well aware of the whole torsade de pointes issue here then. Please taper down now, and not at a "comfy pace", but fast and brutal, it will hurt, but your life is hanging on a microscopically thin string right now.

My mental health prescriber through Columbia River Mental Health and my Center For Dual Diagnosis recovery councilor and main therapist and probation officer all four say *Do Not* rapidly taper, they say *that* may be fatal. I've heard withdrawal peaks 4-7 days after cold turkey, I've only gone two, and it was many magnitudes worse than heroin withdrawal, to the point where it literally felt like a sustained peak of a shot of narcan (mercifully those shots last only ten minutes, this however, just gets worse from the second day onward, I couldn't imagine), I was running back and forth from my room to my front door waiting for my ride to CostCo where I was going to buy a bottle, but could barely move by the same token, just couldn't sit still, vomiting profuse dry-heaves. I don't even do that until *the end* of a heroin detox.
 
I abused loperamide last spring, in addition to other opioids (poppy tea, codeine). I took at most 128mg/day (Imodium is more expensive here in Finland so I couldn't afford larger doses). I didn't have a heavy physical dependency, but I had binges of use lasting at most a week and my performance at work was rather poor during those binges. Even after quitting use after only a few days on loperamide, there's an unpleasant "hangover" that lasts three days. Haven't been using opioids for three months now, it's just not worth the negatives.
 
Look, 200mg of loperamide is not something people should take. It's not safe. People die from overdose and other , weird symptoms that show up with heavy lope abuse. It can be useful for actual withdrawal alleviation, but It's incredibly unsafe and unsustainable to take more than say, 40-90mg in a dose Daily, for no longer than 1-2 weeks. and I'm speaking about using it to alleviate the worst of withdrawal from A moderate to strong level opiate addiction( say, .5g of heroin a day, or a 100+ mg hydrocodone/oxycodone habit). And of course it should be slowly tapered down from at most 100mg lope ( that's too high imo but some people may need as much) to like 40-50mg a day then taper that down to nothing. Slowly but not too slow or you will devote dependent on the lope and that defeats the purpose of using t for withdrawal cuz it will actually cause more withdrawal when u stop. But honestly, I cannot in good conscious recommend any large dose of lope ,for any reason( especially to get high... Sigh). This is due to the high risks and danger involved and it's unknown pharmacological action in the brain. This is to the OP btw.
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To the guy taking massive amounts and overdosing and needing narcan to be reverse it 6 times or whatever: you need medical help and you should get on something like suboxone/etc instead, and use that to taper off. Your use is clearly unsustainable and incredibly risky. Also it must be hell on earth to be stuck on such a high dose and have horrendously intense withdrawals when u stop. You should do a medically supervised detox under a doctors care, and a doctor who understands your situation and is willing to help u get off that shit. You will end up permanently fuckdd or dead if you don't make changes soon, and I mean changes as in, not taking that obscene amount of a barely centrally active opioid , u are saturating your peripheral opioid system so much in order to get some amount into your cns, I think that is why ur withdrawals are so hardcore and physically unbearable. I'm sorry for you man, I imagine it's not a fun way to live.

The fact that u say it's as bad as a naloxone shot but it keeps going, and only on day 2 of no lope? It means you will not be able to safely get off on your own , not unless you find a compassionate doctor who works with you step by step and knows the risk of ur habit. Look at your life ahead of you and ask yourself if you really want to risk your future and your health to continue an obviously damaging habit to an otc anti-diarrheal like Lope. It's your choice , and I hope you choose wisely and find the help you need to get free of the slavery to lope you have put onto yourself.
 
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...but It's incredibly unsafe and unsustainable to take more than say, 40-90mg in a dose Daily, for no longer than 1-2 weeks. and I'm speaking about using it to alleviate the worst of withdrawal from A moderate to strong level opiate addiction( say, .5g of heroin a day, or a 100+ mg hydrocodone/oxycodone habit). And of course it should be slowly tapered down from at most 100mg lope ( that's too high imo but some people may need as much) ...

I respect your opinion in the interest of HR; but I literally *HAVE INDEED* been taking in excess of 200mg daily for more than a year with no deleterious effects discovered thus far; and that is what it takes to get the BBB penetrative effects had in alternative opioids (e.g. heroin, oxycodone) @ my 5'8" 140lbs (roughly) frame.
 
^ and that's fine, I am just saying that warning because there are known deaths from loperamide abuse and the addiction itself sounds so hellish I meant it can't be healthy for your life. How is such a powerful and easy to continue addiction to an opioid which is meant to be taken at around 1% of your daily dose. People have died from less. You make your own choices and do as you wish with your time and body and life. It's always up to you. Just maybe trying to say you could maybe try to see the inherent danger and risks involved in such a relatively obscure drug of abuse. Doctors Seem to not know much how to treat overdoses or heavy addiction treatment for a case analogous or similar to your own. Be safe and maybe just think about what I'm saying... It's for no reason other than I don't want to see someone hurt or even die by such abuse of this compound. I will say no more on it; I just hope you reconsider the facts and what ur future will be life if you don't stop now.

Peace and best of luck to you man, try to stay safe if at all possible.
 
Think you could get off the insane lope dosages by using a centrally active full agonist (like methadone) together with as much loperamide as needed to stay out of withdrawal (which should be much less, maybe <100mg). After tapering as much as possible, adding memantine should be reasonable to aid further tapering / tolerance reversion. Of course all of this should be made under medical supervision where emergency measures are available. So if the switch would trigger precipitated withdrawal, one could consider doing it under dissociative anaesthesia.
 
Be very careful. The dose-response curve is 2 phase. Once it's being transported into the brain faster than the ABC can throw it back out, the curve gets steeper. If you check the patent, removing the -Cl makes it x10 more potent as an analgesic. Due to it's LogP, you don't want to esterify that bare -OH.
 
Yeah I just did three days in county (f-ing off my probation with only a month and one UA left) and let me tell you, every time I kicked H was a million times sweeter and nicer than that third day in there, luckily a good friend was waiting with a bottle of lope upon release. Not just for HR reasoning: it's not something you want to get hooked on anywhere near as bad as I am. Pure hell nightmare. Still am not right, four hours after dosing my usual. Relatively functional, that's all.
 
Man, I don't know how you do it. I did 200 mg once and it hurt my heart. I was high rather shittyily for 3 days. It wasn't euphoric at all, kinda sucked. I could feel it hurting my chest and I'm only 31 and have been pretty athletic most of my life. That shit ain't safe. Anybody who reads this thinking this sounds like a good idea just buy some kratom or something.

Can you at least switch to something safe like heroin?
 
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