Pushing people away

[mtu mwendawazimu]

It's hard to put into words because i'm not exactly sure what does it, but i think it has to do with giving people my respect. Sometimes i do things that lose peoples trust in me, too. Or somehow i disregard them on something important. Or maybe im not emotionally available?

I always start off well. I give good first impressions. But ultimately i think it becomes evident that most my relationships are a one way street.

But don't get me wrong, i go out of my way to be generous and understanding of people. I just can't help putting me and my feelings first. It's only natural.

I think i also underestimate the effect my words have on other people. I'm pretty hard to upset with words, so it's only natural for me to think others are similar.

Gah.. That was a longer post than i thought it would be.

Anyone else have this trouble?

Anyone know someone who pushed them away in a similar manner? How did you feel? What went wrong, exactly?

Thanks.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It's hard to put into words because i'm not exactly sure what does it, but i think it has to do with giving people my respect. Sometimes i do things that lose peoples trust in me, too. Or somehow i disregard them on something important. Or maybe im not emotionally available?

I always start off well. I give good first impressions. But ultimately i think it becomes evident that most my relationships are a one way street.

But don't get me wrong, i go out of my way to be generous and understanding of people. I just can't help putting me and my feelings first. It's only natural.

I think i also underestimate the effect my words have on other people. I'm pretty hard to upset with words, so it's only natural for me to think others are similar.

Gah.. That was a longer post than i thought it would be.

Anyone else have this trouble?

Anyone know someone who pushed them away in a similar manner? How did you feel? What went wrong, exactly?

Thanks.

Snap. This could be me exactly. I have absolutely no problem initially interacting with people and (as far as I can tell) most people who meet me think I am a super nice stand-up kind of guy. I’ve basically never turned down an opportunity to help someone to the extent of my abilities and within the bounds of common sense (I’m not re-homing the homeless guys in my neighbourhood in my spare room for example).

Yet I basically have no friends except a few people who are weirdly persistent about staying connected to me but that I don’t really see often.

I’ve spent years trying to understand this because I actually feel really lonely in life. At different times in my life I thought it was different things. In no particular order:

1. My tendency to push boundaries when manic (way worse when younger). I would do risky things outside the bounds of what people around me would consider socially acceptable. People just felt I might unexpectedly embarrass them in front of their other friends/parents/employers.

2. My tendency towards introspection that makes me go silent for long periods. People apparently assume I’m angry with them or not interested in them or not engaged with being with them. In actual fact I just tend to forget that they are there while I’m thinking my thoughts.

3. My actual anger (way worse when younger). This was a non-specific anger not about anyone or anything in particular, but it would cause me to shut down people and conversations with a sarcastic, cruel, or dismissive one-liner. It was like I was daring people to keep liking me in spite of revealing myself to deep down be a cunt.

4. Being intellectually intimidating and making people feel insecure. I used to think I was always right and I never hesitated about making every question the topic for a winner-takes-all-debate in which I had to prove I was right. I most often was, but I really lacked any empathy for the other person because I thought only the idea mattered and it wasn’t personal. But people always take things personally unless they are actually in debate club.

Basically, I can/could put on really charming and engaging persona when first interacting with people but over time other aspects of my personality would start leaking out and scare/upset/alienate people. However, I don’t think I am psychopathic because that initial engaging persona was authentically me also - just not all of me. Though as I get older I think it is becoming a bigger part of me - but now I am gun-shy about trying to make new friendships/relationships.

 

[Jabberwocky]

i'm autistic so very poorly placed to give any advice i'm afraid. to be honest i didn't have a 'theory of mind' for other people until my early 20s i think so had no chance of understanding why people behaved in certain ways in my formative years.

totally get the thing @Atelier3 mentioned about being intellectually intimidating. a lot of people, men and women, don't like the fact that i've put a fuckload of effort into learning complex things and enjoy talking about that stuff. which is odd cos they're happy to talk about the stuff they have spent years doing, including and i shit you not a date i once had where all the guy talked about was his job managing a stationary store. i cut my losses on that one, fucked him, held him down so he wouldn't cock it up (you can kinda tell someone that unreceptive to talking about anything other than their shit job will not be good in bed), and called a taxi before i'd even got dressed.

i also tell people they are wrong. i'm used to it in my professional life in science cos people tell you you're wrong all the time and you thank them for it but people who aren't used to that, especially brits, find it very offputting.

i totally get feeling like you are happy with things being a certain way, i.e. can take harsh sounding criticism or whatever so finding it jarring when other people can't.

don't worry about this shit too much. as long as you have like some decent people to hang out with and someone you can turn to in a crisis, i don't think it matters. given how obnoxious i have been for most of my life i have a surprising number of friends but they are spread all over the country. all my friends are from my masters (i.e. when i was 21) onwards apart from my boyfriend, who is just a sucker for punishment, so i guess finally realising other people were, like, people, really helped me in the relationship department.

 

[Jabberwocky]

i'm autistic so very poorly placed to give any advice i'm afraid. to be honest i didn't have a 'theory of mind' for other people until my early 20s i think so had no chance of understanding why people behaved in certain ways in my formative years.

totally get the thing @Atelier3 mentioned about being intellectually intimidating. a lot of people, men and women, don't like the fact that i've put a fuckload of effort into learning complex things and enjoy talking about that stuff. which is odd cos they're happy to talk about the stuff they have spent years doing, including and i shit you not a date i once had where all the guy talked about was his job managing a stationary store. i cut my losses on that one, fucked him, held him down so he wouldn't cock it up (you can kinda tell someone that unreceptive to talking about anything other than their shit job will not be good in bed), and called a taxi before i'd even got dressed.

i also tell people they are wrong. i'm used to it in my professional life in science cos people tell you you're wrong all the time and you thank them for it but people who aren't used to that, especially brits, find it very offputting.

i totally get feeling like you are happy with things being a certain way, i.e. can take harsh sounding criticism or whatever so finding it jarring when other people can't.

don't worry about this shit too much. as long as you have like some decent people to hang out with and someone you can turn to in a crisis, i don't think it matters. given how obnoxious i have been for most of my life i have a surprising number of friends but they are spread all over the country. all my friends are from my masters (i.e. when i was 21) onwards apart from my boyfriend, who is just a sucker for punishment, so i guess finally realising other people were, like, people, really helped me in the relationship department.

I could definitely imagine being friends with you in real life. But it would be a kind of friendship where getting together would end in “Fuck You. No Fuck You” arguments. But we’d forget that in a month or two and just start over with some new topic. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[MsDiz]

You have a psychologist don’t you? I think it would be a great idea to speak to him/her about this because they can help you come to terms with a few things around relationships.

Ultimately you are the way you are. There are certain personality disorders that will leave you with the inability to put yourself in others shoes and it’s a very important part of any relationship to be able to do that.

It’s easy for anyone to begin a relationship, we all know how to act, what to do to gain someone’s affection/trust. To be able to charm someone is easily mastered. The hard part comes when it gets past that initial stage. Every relationship is unique, people are unique and you can’t just apply a preset and hope it will work out.

Relationships call for vulnerability, you can’t maintain a mask for long when in one. It will always slip and reveal the truth, whatever that truth may be.

I would posit this though, do you actually feel annoyed when one doesn’t work out? Do you already expect them to fail?

edit:corrected wording.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You have a psychiatrist don’t you?

I think this stuff is more the area of psychologists than psychiatrists. At least here. Psychiatrists don’t deal with anything that cannot be medicated.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I could definitely imagine being friends with you in real life. But it would be a kind of friendship where getting together would end in “Fuck You. No Fuck You” arguments. But we’d forget that in a month or two and just start over with some new topic. Rinse. Repeat.

thank you!! same. tbh i love arguments, i don't get personal and don't take them personally.

if you've got to the point in your PhD where reviewer number 2 has torn your paper to shreds and made you do 6 months more work then you should have a thick enough skin lol.

 

[MsDiz]

I think this stuff is more the area of psychologists than psychiatrists. At least here. Psychiatrists don’t deal with anything that cannot be medicated.

Yeah it autocorrected to that as I use that a lot for work lol. I did mean psychologist I’ll change it.

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

Basically, I can/could put on really charming and engaging persona when first interacting with people but over time other aspects of my personality would start leaking out and scare/upset/alienate people. However, I don’t think I am psychopathic because that initial engaging persona was authentically me also - just not all of me. Though as I get older I think it is becoming a bigger part of me - but now I am gun-shy about trying to make new friendships/relationships.

It's hard for me because while i do have ideas about why im off putting, NO ONE FUCKING TELLS MY FACE!!

i totally get feeling like you are happy with things being a certain way, i.e. can take harsh sounding criticism or whatever so finding it jarring when other people can't.

Yeah this bothers me a lot because im pretty blunt if someone is for example annoying me I'll tell them they're annoying or just walk away and that's rude i guess.

You have a psychiatrist don’t you? I think it would be a great idea to speak to him/her about this because they can help you come to terms with a few things around relationships.

Ultimately you are the way you are. There are certain personality disorders that will leave you with the inability to put yourself in others shoes and it’s a very important part of any relationship to be able to do that.

It’s easy for anyone to begin a relationship, we all know how to act, what to do to gain someone’s affection/trust. To be able to charm someone is easily mastered. The hard part comes when it gets past that initial stage. Every relationship is unique, people are unique and you can’t just apply a preset and hope it will work out.

Relationships call for vulnerability, you can’t maintain a mask for long when in one. It will always slip and reveal the truth, whatever that truth may be.

I would posit this though, do you actually feel annoyed when one doesn’t work out? Do you already expect them to fail?

Yeah i have the works. They all work on me like a project.

I think she'd say similar things about why i push people away, but again, not even she nor i would know because no one fucking tells me and it drives me insane.

Hmm.. Interesting question. I can't say i feel much when things don't work out unless i feel like that person did less for me than i did for them in which case id feel angry. Right now i feel just confused. Not sure how lonely i feel i think its just more frustration that everything always happens the same way.

Maybe im just too careless as time goes on.

 

[MsDiz]

Yeah i have the works. They all work on me like a project.

I think she'd say similar things about why i push people away, but again, not even she nor i would know because no one fucking tells me and it drives me insane.

Hmm.. Interesting question. I can't say i feel much when things don't work out unless i feel like that person did less for me than i did for them in which case id feel angry. Right now i feel just confused. Not sure how lonely i feel i think its just more frustration that everything always happens the same way.

Maybe im just too careless as time goes on.

Do you have an ASPD diagnosis?

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

On second thought maybe i am lonely.

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

Do you have an ASPD diagnosis?

No.

But.. My therapist says she's treating me as if i did. She didn't write me down as it for the court because my criminal record isn't long enough.

That's what she told me.

I also know she's got a soft spot for me

 

[MsDiz]

No.

But.. My therapist says she's treating me as if i did. She didn't write me down as it for the court because my criminal record isn't long enough.

That's what she told me.

I also know she's got a soft spot for me

Haha, maybe she likes you thinking you’ve charmed her.

If she’s treating you like you have one then she’s already given you a diagnosis even if it’s not official.

ASPD is a spectrum, I would definitely ask her to explain it more for you.

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

She sort of did explain it.

She told my psychiatrist they were trying to see if my behaviors were a manifestation of bipolar or of psychopathy. Either way, they determined it was not bipolar, but also not psychopathy.

She said the way i talk about relationships in therapy leads her to believe i am not a psychopath. Not sure what she's referring to but hey i definitely wont argue.

But again, no ones told me to my face what they don't like about me. I can only guess.

 

[MsDiz]

She sort of did explain it.

She told my psychiatrist they were trying to see if my behaviors were a manifestation of bipolar or of psychopathy. Either way, they determined it was not bipolar, but also not psychopathy.

She said the way i talk about relationships in therapy leads her to believe i am not a psychopath. Not sure what she's referring to but hey i definitively wont argue.

But again, no ones told me to my face what they don't like about me. I can only guess.

I think you say what you think they want to hear which is probably why they have trouble placing you.

I would just be honest with them. Having an ASPD diagnosis isn’t the end of the world, in fact a lot of people find they manage much better after receiving it. They get more support to deal with life.

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

I think you say what you think they want to hear which is probably why they have trouble placing you.

I would just be honest with them. Having an ASPD diagnosis isn’t the end of the world, in fact a lot of people find they manage much better after receiving it. They get more support to deal with life.

Oh no im dead honest with her.

 

[MsDiz]

It’s a common misconception that people with ASPD can’t feel love or loneliness because that’s just not true. It may not be to the same degree someone without that diagnosis feels it but it’s still valid.

This is a good read. It would be interesting for you too @DeadManWalkin'

Life with Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD)

Receiving a Personality Disorder diagnosis can be really difficult and can come with a lot of negative associations attached. There are many who disagree with the medicalising of these experiences altogether. But for a lot of people, a diagnosis is a way to understand their problems and find a...

www.mind.org.uk

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

Thank you diz i wish more people had the same idea.

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

@MsDiz - it's interesting article.

My biggest conundrum is i have no history of trauma or abuse. I don't even get violent unless drunk.

I agree with the guy when he says chronic boredom is so.. Chronic. It's painful. Worse than anxiety by far.

Anyway, people don't tell me what their problem is with me so i can only guess and how are you expecting me to guess how you feel?

 

[MsDiz]

@MsDiz - it's interesting article.

My biggest conundrum is i have no history of trauma or abuse. I don't even get violent unless drunk.

I agree with the guy when he says chronic boredom is so.. Chronic. It's painful. Worse than anxiety by far.

Anyway, people don't tell me what there problem is with me so i can only guess and how are you expecting me to guess how you feel?

Well you don’t need trauma as a child to have ASPD, it’s something people are born with. You can develop ASPD from trauma though.

Maybe you need to just ask them? Tell them to be blunt with you and that you don’t mind.

Could it be the case they don’t tell you because they worry about you reacting negatively?