• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

  • Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

Plant-based poisons that kill humans

Status
Not open for further replies.
dalpat077 said:
Funny you should mention this. Pure/concentrated nicotine is fatal in relatively small doses. Another little factoid I discovered at some point. Crazy shit (especially if you think that I've been smoking since about 15 i.e. for 40 years or so?).

And let's not get started on animal stuff (I know that'd be WAY off topic). But just yesterday: I watched a video (Sam Harris) talking about some or the other saliva of some or the frog that when vaporized and smoked it only takes one hit and you're into heroic dose psychedelic territory (I forget the compound it actually is i.e. it does have a name and which I'm sure will be all too familiar to many around these parts).
Click to expand...

You are thinking of the Colorado River Toad. It has glands that pump out 5-MeO-DMT.
 
Atelier3 said:
You are thinking of the Colorado River Toad. It has glands that pump out 5-MeO-DMT.
Click to expand...
That sounds familiar. He did note candidly though: who would even think to try doing that the first time? I just cannot under any circumstances see myself wondering through a strange place, seeing a strange looking frog, and think to myself "I wonder what will happen if I take a secretion from this frog and smoke it?"! Lol! Mind you. Maybe a simple answer i.e. somebody caught one, decided to cook it on a fire as food, and, well, found themselves on another planet from inhaling the smoke off of the fire. Who knows how these things happens.

Apparently that stuff is REALLY potent though (according to him and some or the other psychonaut that he is now big mates with it would seem).

Anyway. As per usual: gonna get in trouble from the OP for going off topic. Sorry OP. These thing just happen! Lol!
 
dalpat077 said:
Here you go. This is just a short insert on “The Poison Garden”. There’s another longer documentary floating around there somewhere. Also and in just searching YouTube using the keywords “deadly plants garden” there’s piles of videos detailing these plants.

Click to expand...
Wolf's bane is the only one I hadn't heard of. It seems like hemlock is the deadliest overall. Interesting
 
Atelier3 said:
Hey @Foreigner. I’m very sorry that you took offence at a bit of lighthearted humour about ‘alternative’ medicine. When I googled ‘herbalist’ to learn a little more about it, I was quite surprised that so many of the results that popped up had terms like ‘charlatan’ in the title. Then that made me remember a big scandal we had in Australia about Chinese herbalists killing children and cancer patients Then that made me remember another scandal about a cash-hungry university here trying to offer degrees in herbalism. And then that made me think about there being medicine (double blind, replicable, peer-reviewed scientific studies) and ‘alternative’ medicine (everything else but) . And then that made me think of the song, which is pretty funny and cheered me up about remembering the herbalists killing children and cancer patients. However, I can see how an ‘alternative’ medicine practitioner might find it a bit offensive. Although, most of my friends that actually went to a medical school think it’s fucking hilarious.

I’m sure you are a very good herbalist, and not the kind that tries to convince children and cancer patients you can cure their terminal illnesses with an all natural smoothie and a bit of incense. I agree that if you can prove with double blind, replicable, peer-reviewed scientific studies that a plant has healing powers then it is fair to call it medicine and not ‘alternative’ medicine.
Click to expand...

If all you care about are big news scandals about herbalism, then you aren't a researcher or scientifically minded. You're just a consumer of media bullshit. I've been doing this for 15+ years and there are plenty of scientific studies available on just about everything. For every practitioner that does something bad, there are thousands out there working earnestly to help people, despite your disdain. There's also a lot of traditional based reporting that is highly accurate and historical, just as valuable. Inductive evidence over thousands of years adds up to something, even if science hasn't yet qualified it. My initial training was in traditional methods, at the university level and also through experiential learning with indigenous people. I probably learned more from them than anywhere. It's why your claim that you could google 1000+ poisonous plants is kind of non-sense. You need direct field experience to know what you're looking at, so you don't kill yourself. People misidentify plants all the time using plant keys, even professionals. It's why experiential learning is part of the process. But if you think you know more than me, then have fun wasting your time hunting for plants.

Your backstory for why you posted the video sounds really bullshitty. I'm supposed to believe you felt down about cancer patients and wanted to cheer yourself up by making fun of my way of life. I find you insincere and backpeddling. It's pretty obvious you just wanted to poke fun at "alternative medicine", a term that big pharma made up by the way in order to psychologically manipulate the public into thinking the pharmaceutical industry is primary and everything else gets othered. So... to sum it all up, fuck you and your phony apology.
 
The Wizard of the Creek said:
Hey dude, if you have a problem with any member or mod here you can smash that report button (you were a mod and know this). I could honestly give a shit about what you think of me, in any capacity. I was just trying to redirect your energy to something more productive than just flaming people here. This could have real harm reduction information (example, death cap/liberty cap misidentification).

As a licensed herbalist, I’m curious about potentially deadly poisonous plants that you suggest as medicines. There are quite a few and your “expertise” on this might be useful to further discussions here. Or you can keep flaming people and run this thread off the rails. Your choice bro, but could care less at this point to be honest.
Click to expand...

Why don't you take your own advice, dimwit? Rather than calling me out for animosity, why don't you just use the mod report button? Now you're crying because I talked back to you. Well that's what happens when you don't mind your own business. Maybe next time you'll know better.

I'm happy to give my expertise to people who treat me as an equal human being, but not to people who belittle my life's work in passing cruelty like it's nothing at all to them to try and degrade another individual. People get away with a lot of subtle digs and disrespect on these boards, but it's always the ones who call them out and "flame" who get dinged for it. That's because I make it loud and clear when I call bullshit. I'm not a coward who works in obscurity. I attack bullies when they attack me, especially if they think they can say something under their breath and get away with it because they're too much of a coward to come out and say the thing directly. You don't get to ask for my help while making fun of what I have dedicated to my life to. It doesn't work that way. Respect works two ways. You disrespect me, I disrespect you.

Again, mind your own fucking business, or use the mod report button.
 
Foreigner said:
.
So... to sum it all up, fuck you and your phony apology.
Click to expand...

Man, that’s heavy. Maybe you need a good peppermint and chamomile infusion to reduce your stress levels. I am trying to imagine what the response would be of a scientist or doctor to an anti-science person criticising their work. I expect, thoroughly secure in the knowledge that what they do is essential to human flourishing, they would first pity the person criticising them for their ignorance and then move on to continue doing good in the world and totally confident in themselves. They certainly wouldn’t be foul mouthed, petulant or abusive.

I can’t help noticing that does not seem to be how alternative medical practitioners react to comments or questions about what they do. Instead of being ‘rational’ (like science) they get really emotional (like non-science). I expect most doctors could even take a joke about being in the pay of ‘big pharma’ without having a meltdown.

It was just a lighthearted video not an all out assault. Chill out.
 
Atelier3 said:
I can’t help noticing that does not seem to be how alternative medical practitioners react to comments or questions about what they do. Instead of being ‘rational’ (like science) they get really emotional (like non-science). I expect most doctors could even take a joke about being in the pay of ‘big pharma’ without having a meltdown.
Click to expand...

This comment right here is the truth of what you really think, what your original jab at me showed me. At least you've finally showed some balls to come out and say it, instead of some bullshitty story about feeling bad for cancer patients and needing to lookup a lighthearted song.

Your division of emotion/non-science and rational/science is a big laugh. We're not in a lab here, we're on a social forum where you're acting like a jerk and being called on it. Grow a pair and apologize, sincerely, and I will probably move on. But every time you jab my further, I am just going to fight with you more.

You didn't post anything scientific for me to refute. You just insulted my practice "because science". Don't even bother trying to take the higher ground, I see right through you.
 
The Wizard of the Creek said:
Nobody’s against you here, but please come down to The Abyss so that I can tell you what I really think about your joke claim as a “licensed herbalist” nonsense. Does it involve collecting 50 proof of purchase UPC’s codes from Cheerio boxes?
Click to expand...

You're not against me, but in the same sentence you call me a joke licensed herbalist.

You are so full of shit it's unbelievable.

Don't dish it out if you can't handle it. You don't own this thread. If you want it to go a certain way, then there should be a decorum of respect. If people disrespect me, I call them on it. You can see the thousands of other posts I've made on this board, 99.8% of them well measured. A few are angry like these ones because little asshats try to mess with me and then try gaslighting me into thinking I didn't see what I think I saw. I know what I read and saw. I saw a pro-rationalist brat attacking me because, by his own admission, he read some news articles about hack herbalists, and thought it would be funny to make fun of me by posting a video framing alternative practitioners as anti-science nuts, rather than having an actual scientific discussion with me. When called on it, he now claims I am being emotional and non-scientific. That's sociopaths for you.

It's not my fault if you're too much of a coward to own your own idiocy. If you make fun of my life's work I will tear into you. If you don't apologize, I won't stop. Get used to it, shithead.
 
Wow. That’s some pathological insecurity you’ve got going on there @Foreigner. It’s kind of weird that you are making the case for emotion and non-rationality in a neuroscience forum.

My understanding is that a person seriously engaged in understanding the healing and other properties of plants would be qualified as a biologist. A person really seriously engaged in that pursuit would probably be double qualified as a chemist.

I think @The Wizard of the Creek’s question about your qualifications (though poorly phrased) has become germane to this conversation. You entered this thread with a claim that you uniquely possess information not publicly available by virtue of being a herbalist.

The claimed secret nature of that information was the first red flag that you might be a carpetbagging charlatan. Science is open. Anybody can read the papers and patents and evaluate its claims to truth. Claims to secret knowledge have been the way quacks have duped the gullible for centuries.

Do you a qualification in biology or chemistry? Any kind of 4 year science degree in any discipline from a reputable university.

Or is your epistemology entirely based on swearing at people on the internet?
 
Ok, enough for now chaps, it's gone way off topic. I'm going to lock this until N&PD mods have the time to look things over and clean up where necessary.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top