People who have no faith

[Cheshire_Kat]

You're quite right FUBAR. I feel quite fortunate to have the energy and desire to have turned away. I walk alone and mostly silently.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Yes, you're probably correct and I admit they were poor examples of 'spirituality'. However, I desperately wanted to believe there was more to life than this mortal coil, but my logical, rational side held me back until I eventually gave up trying. One thing I do know for certain though, is that organised religion has irrevocably damaged human spirituality...

Not irrevocably.

Just look at how secular laws are teaching the religious how they should be thinking.

The religious as not the best and brightest, but they are not stupid, as shown by how it is rare to have a religious who is fool enough to try to have theistic laws rule the land instead of secular law.

I happen to have an un-finished O.P. that I am working on. I have stalled on it though.

Perhaps because I am not sure what to title it and have not proofed and rewritten it to where it easier to understand.

Don't be surprised if it is incoherent to you. I sometimes let my anger out in a first draft and that does not do my presentations any good.

I will accept any critique no matter how harsh. I likely deserve it for an un-proofed piece.

-------------

The Good News is; we evolved better laws with our collective secular Jesus consciousness’.

It is almost too bad that a supernatural Jesus never existed.

Secular law is superior to theistic law and we religionists should act like we know this and praise God for it instead of hindering the secular systems that rule over us..

The following was written as a reply where the morality of genocide was being discussed.

I wrote in point form below to show that God has truly given dominion to man and not to Satan and could no longer punish except through a Jesus consciousness.

-----------------------------------

Jesus died to save everyone from god's unjust condemnation. Right?


God gives life with nature. God is just a term to express first cause.

Put nothing above that term but keep it generic. Only a fool would do otherwise.

Jesus deposing god is proof that God cannot punish till he shows his genocidal face here.

God of the Gaps is where both science and religion are.

God, as First cause, cannot punish, as it is no longer what it was.

We will never know if it was sentient unless it speaks to us intelligently.

With God's of the Gasps, be they scientific proofs or religious proofs, only they can prove their own existence by showing up.

They have not so all our efforts and religious spending should be deferred for a time to space research. There is no supernatural god but there may be aliens.

The only decent surprise left for us all is to now if we are unique and are in fact God W.W.Ps.

Only God can create sentience and we are it.

Except for the cosmic consciousness we upload to at death.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

If organised religion could be wiped from the Earth then I would agree with you. But it holds too far much power for that to happen.

Take heart that our children will not have to suffer religions for much longer.

Statistics that are about 5 years old now, show that the tipping point of belief to non-belief is estimated to happen in 2050. But things have accelerated since that estimate was put.

2040 if not sooner, is my forecast.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

You're quite right FUBAR. I feel quite fortunate to have the energy and desire to have turned away. I walk alone and mostly silently.

To me, silently equals immorally.

Let me try to convince you to ----

Insert gays and women harmed by homophobic and misogynous religions to this quote.

You should get an idea of what you should be doing with the homophobic and misogynous mainstream religions if you live by the golden rule.

Please get back to me with your conclusion.

Martin Niemöller
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

W R

Are there any women or gays in your family?

Regards
DL

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Take heart that our children will not have to suffer religions for much longer.

Statistics that are about 5 years old now, show that the tipping point of belief to non-belief is estimated to happen in 2050. But things have accelerated since that estimate was put.

2040 if not sooner, is my forecast.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Regards
DL

I wouldn't expect people to relinquish their beliefs, after all, we all need something to believe in. It's when people are told what to believe and they are expected to follow with blind faith that I have a problem with.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I wouldn't expect people to relinquish their beliefs, after all, we all need something to believe in. It's when people are told what to believe and they are expected to follow with blind faith that I have a problem with.

Ditto, but beliefs are based on facts, not on the blind faith of fools that you are talking about.

Language matters and we do not want to abuse the language the way Christians do.

Facts lead to belief, --- while faith is without facts.

Regards
DL

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Ditto, but beliefs are based on facts, not on the blind faith of fools that you are talking about.

Language matters and we do not want to abuse the language the way Christians do.

Facts lead to belief, --- while faith is without facts.

Regards
DL

Exactly. Couldn't agree more.

It is faith that needs to be eradicated, not belief...

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Exactly. Couldn't agree more.

It is faith that needs to be eradicated, not belief...

Religious faith, yes.

I have read some pros and cons on faith in other things that might have value.

If you have a friend in the hospital, lets say. Telling him or her to have faith in the doctor and his or her healing power could be useful.

That or faith in the love of who you plan to propose to.

That kind of faith is more like bio feedback but does no harm like religious faith does.

I am sure, as Einstein spent what, 10 years in developing his theories, that he had faith in his as yet un-proven talents and ability to dither his theory out.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Religious faith, yes.

I have read some pros and cons on faith in other things that might have value.

If you have a friend in the hospital, lets say. Telling him or her to have faith in the doctor and his or her healing power could be useful.

That or faith in the love of who you plan to propose to.

That kind of faith is more like bio feedback but does no harm like religious faith does.

I am sure, as Einstein spent what, 10 years in developing his theories, that he had faith in his as yet un-proven talents and ability to dither his theory out.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL

As you have said yourself, faith has no factual basis. Einstein had belief, not faith. Having faith in a doctor is a belief based in fact. Faith in love is based upon the fact you believe they love you in return. Faith and belief are two totally separate entities - the former indicates lack of freewill while the latter indicates choice...

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

As you have said yourself, faith has no factual basis. Einstein had belief, not faith. Having faith in a doctor is a belief based in fact. Faith in love is based upon the fact you believe they love you in return. Faith and belief are two totally separate entities - the former indicates lack of freewill while the latter indicates choice...

I am going to split hairs here just for the sake of linguistic use.

Einstein could believe in his mathematical skills, as they could be proven experimentally.

He could only have faith and hope, if I might add that synonym, in his thinking ability that pushed himself to keep working those many years

He would have belief if he had had a working model, but until he had one to change his thinking from hope and faith to belief, I don't think we can say that he believed as belief can only be applied to a known fact.

On your doctor analogy, I am going for an internal exam soon and I hope the doctor knows what he is doing, and have faith in the system that trained him, but I cannot believe it yet. I do not have the done deal fact to have me say, I believe. Sitting her now, all I have is hope and faith in what he can do.

On your love analogy. The same wording applies.

You wrote "faith in love is based upon the fact you believe they love you in return".

You have belief creating faith. If you already believe it based on facts, you have no need of faith or hope. Right?
---------

I am not going to agree with your notion of free will. I think you might have it backwards.

You have faith as a lack of free will and belief as a free willed choice.

If I believe a car hit my house, it is based on fact and I do not have the free will to not believe it.

Faith that it did not happen is also a free willed choice to hope that no car hit my home. This ignores the evidence just as faith is maintained against the evidence.

I am French but hope I have this English right.

Regards
DL

 

[Nagelfar]

Displaying faithlessness is the best way to keep faith from being profaned. I think those non-professors of faith share an inner sacred truth in the ineffible. We can't know so they pronounce no.

 

[Foreigner]

I remember reading a really interesting study years ago that was also turned into a TED talk. Wish I could remember it now.

In volunteers, scientists applied a strong magnetic field to the part of the brain responsible for giving people a sense of individual separateness. When the magnetic field disrupted this part of the brain, the people with faith had other parts of the brain light up to compensate, usually the parts associated with group identity or "oneness" experience. This is colloquially called the faith part of the brain.

The people with no pre-existing faith based system had total psychological meltdowns.

What the experiment showed is that faith is an integral part of psychological survival, especially when the ego is under duress.

Similarly, I have watched interviews with former government torturers, like in Indonesia. They said that the method you use to break someone is to suss out what they have faith in, and insert so much doubt and pain that their faith system collapses. Then they will dissociate and you can get anything you want from them. Obviously this is psychopathic, but it shows how important faith is to one's framework, and why people fight so hard to assert that what they believe is true.

Personally, I think the science and the testimony are too limited. Everyone has faith in something, it's just a matter of degree. If you love logic, then you have faith in logic; if you're a rationalist, then you have faith that rationality will always yield answers for you. The moment at which you are faced with the fact that your faith based system might have limits, or that there might be something in the world that contradicts it, you usually start fighting.

You can always tell who the faith based people are, no matter what their background, because they will always argue to protect it. The ones who are non-attached will be open to refinement... however, sometimes non-attached people find comfort, coping and safety in apathy, so they're not off their hook either.

My multiple experiences with near death have deconstructed all my faith based systems until there was nothing left. Once there was nothing, I witnessed the bedrock of reality, which is permanent and unshakeable, and also has nothing to do with me. I no longer need faith because the bedrock is always there, and nothing that "happens to me" can ever change it. I think some people who undergo torture or long-term duress realize this, if they manage to not completely decompensate into animal-like creatures once their psyche is shattered.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Displaying faithlessness is the best way to keep faith from being profaned. I think those non-professors of faith share an inner sacred truth in the ineffible. We can't know so they pronounce no.

Indeed, they lie a lot.

Regards
DL

 

[Gormur]

My answer may seem weird, so no need for apologies up front

I don't see the demons and other, mostly evil things but some neutral spiritual things in my life as existing but rather as static. Static meaning that they don't exist but are in another sphere or dimension apart from this one we humans know

I guess at best that makes me an atheist and at worst a skeptic

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Or at best.

Regards
DL

 

[thujone]

I'm not a spiritual person so I don't particularly even care if God exists or not.

 

[mtu mwendawazimu]

The closest to any faith i have, is thinking that everything happens for a reason, which some days i believe and some days i don't.

No higher power, no god, no after life etc.

I cam to this conclusion in regards to a higher power, because i have no evidence that i am not correct. I don't put it out of the question, i simply have no evidence at the time.

As for people who believe, i often just say, "alright, whatever helps you sleep at night".

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I'm just wondering if anyone that uses this part of BL has no faith & doesn't believe in an afterlife, ghosts, magick, curses, Jesus, "God", Kali etc etc.........(Insert whatever faith system etc you may think of first)

Since being a really small kid I've had faith in a higher force & beings that go way beyond anything we can understand while alive, I've said before about the events I've gone through before & the first was flying down the stairs as a kid. My mom still says to this day I fell down but I would have died & she gets really mad if I bring it up still to this day. Also the first time I saw a demon I was with a friend who was a really strict Jehovah's Witnesses & her mom came round came round going mad at me saying I was making her daughter cry with tales of ghosts etc but we had both seen something truly fucking evil, still to this day out of all then stuff I've gone through that made me 100% SURE there is something way beyond what we can understand & made me sure in my "faith" of a "God" but sadly too many people when they hear the word "God" get trapped in this strange Jewish cult idea of a God (You have to give it to Christianity they sure done a good job of messing up most folks minds when it comes to "God" sadly)

I'm just curious what made people so sure that nothing else is one the other side & why you have NO faith in anything when we die.
I'm NOT here to judge anyone or to try & change a persons view, most people think I am weird & mad at the very least for having the faith I do so please if you post on this thread show respect to another persons ideas etc which sadly is sometimes lacking on this part of BL for some reason.

Why do you have NO faith in anything?
What made you come to this conclusion?
What do you make of people with a faith?

You have faith that you don't have faith. An agnostic "I don't know, I can't know" superposition between faith and faith-of-no-faith seems to be the dangerous point.

YES I know that's bizarre coming from an atheist like myself. But as an atheist I have faith in myself (not AS a god but, you know, just have faith in myself in a generic way) well I think this type of faith is important. Without it in an "in god" or "in yourself" way I think I'd have not made it through some shit I have.

It certainly left my understanding/beliefs unchanged but firm that the faith or faithlessness is important.

 

[draculic acid69]

Because these type of people are realist, they live in reality. Where these things will never exist. Because these type of people aren't bored because we have real things to worry about. Like.. what we gonna eat tonight, what we gonna do tonight, so on. These things don't require a logical person who lives in reality to think just to get the other one out of the fantasy that he's in, you can only make it out by yourself. You have to understand that if such things as "Afterlife'' would exist, then no one would be alive.

In a year of being on this site this is the first time your comment has been good,on point and made sense.well said

 

[draculic acid69]

If organised religion could be wiped from the Earth then I would agree with you. But it holds too far much power for that to happen.

Christianity and Catholicism are well and truly on there way out.islam with the believe it or be shunned,stoned or killed survives only by force of what would the neighbors think and family pressure and from Isis/Taliban/government. guess Jews stick with it bcoz of there history and the thing I'm not appalled by is Jews r told to ask questions,think for themselves and not just blindly accept unlike 99% of other religions.fortunately organised religion is diminishing significantly.more and more ppl are opting out, cancelling there subscription and reclaiming there Sunday mornings.less ppl r seeing being a churchgoer as a good thing,less ppl r trusting the church(&priests),less ppl r forcing what there parents forced on them on there kids, public schools no longer force it on students and more ppl r openly forming there own beliefs and r no longer hiding it.