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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

NZ: BZP criminalised and taken from market - estimate 2 months!

Thanks for the website.

Had a look and gave it a go but not in Auckland so probably no good.

Hope it makes it to Qld...
 
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Hi,

My name is Matt, I started Stargate, we have a website here for more info: www.stargate.org.nz

The overall message of the designerpills website at the moment is "talk to the hand" - we're not open yet. Sorry we can't ship to Australia.

Reading from the top of the thread there was a lot of that "THIS IS GOING TO ALL BE ILLEGAL SOON" expectation. I'm happy to say that we're well past that phase now.

To give some context to an explanation of what has happened, NZ's government didn't buy into the "WAR ON TERROR" refusing to go into a war when the evidence to do so looked a bit light. Those at the top of our drug policy groups also view moves to treat drug issues with "WAR" in a similar light.

Our drug policy (which is available for viewing here: www.ndp.govt.nz) is one of harm minimisation. It is part of the HEALTH portfolio, so the issue is seen as one of reducing public health risk.

When we began with BZP it was at a time when NZ was seeing significant harm spreading quickly from the availability and enthusiasm for smokable methamphetamine.

In the clubbing scene we saw a shift from ecstasy to smokable and in some places injected meth and kiwis just were not ready for the results. Many people losing jobs, family, houses, primary relationships, many of us had friends lose their lives from drug usage which was quite new to us. (Smack isn't common here.) It's a small country, so when a few people die it's a major. We started using BZP instead as a replacement for the stimulation of meth, to keep the scene going and give people an alternative with lower addictive potential to use in the social sense.

Our drug policy calls for members of the public to come forward with solutions to reduce demand for illegal drugs. The most obvious way to me was to produce safer legal, non-addictive alternatives. The legality was said by many to be a "grey" area so we consulted government on it to get some feedback, to present it as a solution.

I met with our Minister for Drug Policy, Hon Jim Anderton and his panel of advisors and it was agreed that government would remain evidence based and give it a risk assessment. He commented to me that he knew it was not right to "continue on with prohibition" as the lessons from American history last century were that "they tried that with alcohol and it gave them Al Capone."

The representatives of "LEAP" (law enforcement against prohibition www.leap.cc) had met with him a few weeks previously and the number of unusual events in NZ from horrific murders, suicides and violent crime not normally seen in NZ was significantly higher than usual with widespread smoking of, and heavy increase in i.v. usage of, badly made crystal methamphetamine. We were ready to try something new.

The Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs agreed that a legitimate industry producing safer alternatives in a regulated framework was an acceptable harm reduction initiative.

It is still early days, it's only been 5 years and we only have the first stages of legislation, the statute, but it has the new "FOURTH SCHEDULE" so we have Class A, B and C drugs being illegal and CLASS D drugs being "non traditional designer susbtances taken for psychotropic purposes" having an R18 restriction on them, this has been through parliament and is active law now, and the next part of law, the REGULATIONS are being developed in consultation with industry, (and the public etc).

We've had to do a lot of work with our officials and taken high level professional media and legal advice, and to engage the media on all levels with a solid message backed up by people in authority to grin and bear it, this is the way forward and the long term benefit is a reduction in health risk. The messaging has been vital to keep public opinion at a place where the politicians are confident to move forward and to destigmatise recreational drug usage in our country.

Hope that makes sense.

Best Regards,

Matt Bowden.
Stargate
 
Thanks for the information Starboy.

I think what you are doing is fantastic and I will support you all the way (especially when I am back home in NZ and wanting to party!).

It is about time we started testing different ideas and solutions to societies problems, rather than just prohibiting the problems and making everyday people into criminals, or even worse - unhealthy.

I have said this before but will say it again, if I had the choice of a really good illegal ecstasy pill or a professionally manufactured, correctly dosed and tested legal alternative, I would take the later.

So would most of the people I know.

Well done Stargate. I hope that what you and others in NZ are proactively doing will make NZ a safer, healthier and happier country.

Australia....now it's YOUR turn.
 
chopped_chimp said:
Australia....now it's YOUR turn.

haha not bloody likely!

i was talking to a BZP supplier who was trying to get into the aussie market - he said that it seems like the TGA deems anything that "significant benefit to an individual in a period of less than 24 hours" to be bad for us and bannable. WTF?!

the scary thing was that he also said the aussie and nz tga's will be joining together soon. who will win in this case? will BZP become legal in aus? or will australia muscle NZ and get the pills banned in spite of all scientific evidence? rather interesting.

I rather liked bzp. was just stronger than a really strong coffee, I'd definatly replace methamphetamine with BZP. especially as i didnt notice that bad comedown everyone talks about.
 
marklar_the_23rd said:
the scary thing was that he also said the aussie and nz tga's will be joining together soon. who will win in this case? will BZP become legal in aus? or will australia muscle NZ and get the pills banned in spite of all scientific evidence? rather interesting.

This was part of the logic of moving it under the drug laws and out from under food / therapeutic goods regulations here.

When NZ and Australia harmonise the laws on food and therapeutic goods, there are a lot of substances which humans consume for various reasons, not just social tonics, which would fall through the cracks, so there needed to be an additional category to sell things in - Misuse of Drugs Act is not ideal for this as it really needs an overhaul to address several problems, but in the limited timeframe it seemed like the best option.
 
theyd b so stupid 2 make BZP illegal
i know theres bn a frew incidents but its always bn dickheads who cant read the directions on the botlle.......1 or 2 pills is harmless as anything, its no diffrent 2 popping a couple of no-doz b4 an exam or sumthing
i personally wud do a helluva lot more illegal uppers if it wasnt so cheap and obtainable - i mean id rather hav sum P but if i dont hav the money 4 a point im happy 2 pop one of these legal cheapies (literally, $2 a pill off mates) and it keeps me going
as 4 the comedown, well i know it varies 4 ppl but a bit of weed does the trick - its nothing like the hellhole of an amphetamine comedown.....u can function
i believe our country really WUD hav a drug problem if party pills disappeared off the shelf :X
jim andertons a fucking dickhead - he needs to focus on a drug thats actually causing problems rsather than one that a few sub-zeros hav chosen to mass-consume (some of these overdosers hav consumed like 12+ pills in a night....)
and dont get me started on peter dunne......
 
Some interesting new posts in this old thread. Thanks for the update starboy
 
drug_wench said:
theyd b so stupid 2 make BZP illegal
i know theres bn a frew incidents but its always bn dickheads who cant read the directions on the botlle.......1 or 2 pills is harmless as anything, its no diffrent 2 popping a couple of no-doz b4 an exam or sumthing
i personally wud do a helluva lot more illegal uppers if it wasnt so cheap and obtainable - i mean id rather hav sum P but if i dont hav the money 4 a point im happy 2 pop one of these legal cheapies (literally, $2 a pill off mates) and it keeps me going
as 4 the comedown, well i know it varies 4 ppl but a bit of weed does the trick - its nothing like the hellhole of an amphetamine comedown.....u can function
i believe our country really WUD hav a drug problem if party pills disappeared off the shelf :X
jim andertons a fucking dickhead - he needs to focus on a drug thats actually causing problems rsather than one that a few sub-zeros hav chosen to mass-consume (some of these overdosers hav consumed like 12+ pills in a night....)
and dont get me started on peter dunne......
Actually, no. Anderton's not a dickhead. He's always had his wowserish views about not understanding why people would do drugs (including alcohol and drugs) but he has a commitment to making decisions on the evidence and has placed more stock in the decision-making process through the expert committees.
However, there are other politicians - you mentioned a likely candidate - who do take a view that is more unreasonable and workable. Even to the point of declaring that they'd oppose medical marijuana because it's the "thin end of the wedge" for legalising cannabis.
These are the politicians who use drugs as a political football, a platform for power and publicity, and who contribute little to reducing the harm of drugs. Anderton, my friend, is not one of them.
And please learn how to spell, txt-language is soooo last year.
 
This made the papers today, thoughts and comments?
No plans to ban herbal pills
03 November 2005
By REBECCA QUILLIAM

Despite calls by medical professionals to ban herbal party pills because of increasing evidence of health risks, there is no legislation on the parliamentary agenda to ban the legal drugs.


In a yet-to-be published study, lead researcher and emergency medicine specialist Paul Gee tallied up 61 patients who sought treatment at Christchurch Hospital's emergency department for severe reactions to party pills on 80 occasions over five months this year.

Numbers had not decreased since a law change in June restricting sales to those over 18, Dr Gee said.

A number had suffered seizures after taking the "recommended" dose of just two, he said.

Of those seeking medical treatment, 15 patients suffered "toxic seizures", falling unconscious, shaking uncontrollably, and in some cases had lost control of their bladder or bowels.

Such seizures could last from a few seconds to more than an hour, Dr Gee said.

"I'd like this stuff outright banned."

Many took the pills thinking they were safe because they were legal and described as herbal, he said.

But Associate Health Minister Jim Anderton said the Government was working "darn hard" on looking at the effects of herbal pills on users, but stopped short of saying a ban of the drugs would be recommended.

Mr Anderton said he had received advice from the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs (EACD) that the herbal pills were not dangerous enough to ban.

"As far as I know BZP (benzylpiperazine – a chemical found in party pills) has not yet killed anybody."

Mr Anderton said the pills could make some people very ill, and occasionally they might come close to dying, "but no one yet has died as far as I know in New Zealand".

"I have taken advice from the EACD on this matter, and the advice was `we think there are reasons why this should be looked at more closely. Around the world we can only find one example of anyone who's died from this drug, but even then there are questions around it'."

Mr Anderton said two government-funded research programmes looking at the effects of BZP were running at the moment.

Mr Anderton said he would put measures forward to ban BZP if research found it was an inherently dangerous substance.

"I need the evidence, I haven't got it yet."

National's health spokesman Tony Ryall said his party backed more research on the pills but he also would not be calling for a total ban just yet.

National was in favour of close monitoring on the selling of the pills and felt regulation of access was required. " But in terms of banning access of these party pills, we're not in a position to state what our position on that is."

The New Zealand Drug Foundation warned against banning BZP, saying such a move would be against the best evidence available.

"It is absolutely imperative that we make decisions on the legal status of drugs based on the evidence, and the evidence alone," foundation executive director Ross Bell said.

By law, the pills could not be sold to anybody under 18 and the pills needed to carry appropriate health warnings.

"By banning party pills, there is a real risk that these restrictions will disappear. The regulations provide useful controls that we would otherwise not have if the substances were illegal," he said.

"It would be interesting to know how many people are presenting to Dr Gee's emergency department with alcohol-related problems and whether he thinks alcohol should be banned accordingly."
From NZPA: http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3466499a11,00.html
 
A debate on Cambell live between Paul Gee and Matt Bowden screened some week and a half ago now....

5 Reasons why that article is misleading:

- The same idiots continue to do it....at least 19 of those incidents were repeat incidents and thats just within 5 months

- 'A number'...thats BLATANT hype...1 maybe 2>? The entire article on Cambell Live was focussed around one girl who took some diet pills (yes, some stupid fuck put bzp in a diet pill without labelling it properly) and had a seizure. The study clearly rely's on user honesty as to how many they took. This is unlikely to be forthcoming and genuine

- 'Lost control of their bladder or bowels'?!?! Cant pee? No shit...I've never heard of anybody shitting themselves due to herbals, sounds like rubbish to me.

- As far as I could make out on the program, the study considers it a serious reaction if somebody has a panic attack, is dehydrated, or just in any condition where they feel they need to go to hospital.

-"Many took the pills thinking they were safe because they were legal and described as herbal, he said" - thank you for twice referring to them as herbals in your articles ms Quilliam.

This is her second artcile on party pills...hope she doesnt turn up the hype...
 
Nice, why the hell don't we have as balanced views by pollies here in Australia? Anderton in the scope of this article seems like a pretty decent bloke to be in such a position.
 
that reporter/writer/joutnalist/whatevrthefuk was not objective
 
TheYellowDart said:
Nice, why the hell don't we have as balanced views by pollies here in Australia? Anderton in the scope of this article seems like a pretty decent bloke to be in such a position.

Yeh man, its actually really strange...like, this guy is BLOODY conservative personally...he doesnt like drugs, he doesnt see why people should be allowed to do them and he finds the whole state of affairs just not cool, but continues to put his personal feelings aside and look for objective evidence of harm that he can weigh the positives against...good politician
 
People loosing control of the Bladder and Bowels is quite common in full-blown seizures, likewise, it can happen when people are given really large doses of sympathomimetics. Ever heard of someone shitting their pants with fear, same reaction.
 
NZ: Ministers consider ban on BZP party pills

Dominion Post, Wednesday 13 December 2006

Medical experts want tough restrictions or an outright ban on party pills, as the Government gets set to make a decision on their future.

Associate Health Minister Jim Anderton will take proposals to a Cabinet committee today after a report on the BZP-based pills last week by the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs.

It is understood the committee has seriously considered recommending banning party pills, which one in five New Zealanders have used, or placing tough restrictions on their use.

Emergency medicine specialist Paul Gee, who has been researching the effects of the pills, wants them banned, but admits some doctors think that could send them underground. "But all of us agree there needs to be more regulation."

Dr Gee said minimum regulations should include tighter age and access restrictions as well as dosage limits. "(They) shouldn't be at every garage and dairy, every shop every hundred metres."

Hospitals nationwide have reported an influx of young patients with ill-effects, including seizures, after taking the pills in the past year.

The pills contain benzylpiperazine (BZP), which mimics the drug ecstasy and can also leave users feeling agitated and dehydrated. The substance is banned in the United States.

The trade is worth an estimated $24 million a year.

[EDIT: Threads merged. hoptis]
 
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REPORT: Legal party pill use in New Zealand, 2006

Quote from p. 8 of this report:

Current legal party pill use and illicit drug use

Of those who were current legal party pill users and current illicit drug users, approximately three out of 10 (27.9%; 19.9-37.8 ) said they only ‘use legal party pills when they cannot get illicit drugs’. A further three out of 10 (26.9%; 18.8-36.9) indicated that they ‘use legal party pills with illegal drugs to enhance their effects or the duration of effects’. The remaining four out of 10 (45.2%; 35.6-55.1) reported that they ‘use legal party pills so they do not have to use illegal drugs’.

It certainly looks like there should be more regulation, ie, to the same or slightly better standard than alcohol. However hopefully the NZ govt will be also considering the effect shown in this quote from the report - some people use legal pills to avoid trouble with the law and other negatives associated with illegal drugs. Banning legal pills could result in these people (1) cease using any drugs (2) use illegal drugs and come to greater harm. In many cases it will be the second option... as much as politicians may prefer the first!
 
Party pills: few serious short term outcomes found

Wednesday, 20 December 2006, 1:14 pm
Press Release: University of Auckland

Young people did not report many serious harmful adverse effects related to their use of legal party pills (LPPs) in a qualitative study undertaken by The University of Auckland.

The research, commissioned by the Ministry of Health, found LPPs are generally used by young people for their stimulant effects and to aid in socialising during group activities, such as at dance parties. Whilst there was evidence of some potentially harmful behaviour taking place with LPP use, such as taking them in combination with illegal drugs or large amounts of alcohol, no-one reported seeking medical treatment.

A number of negative effects were noted by users of LPPs, including raised heart rate, upset stomach, inability to sleep and a sore or dry mouth. There is also an associated unpleasant period as the effects of the pills wear off, where people can feel depressed, tired, unable to sleep, tense or edgy, and withdrawn. Participants reported no difficulties associated with reducing or stopping their use of LPPs. Interviewees working in drug treatment services reported few, if any, issues with young people and party pills.

The qualitative study interviewed 58 young people, recruited from a 16 to 24-old age group, and 21 key people from a range of environments including emergency departments, drug services, youth health and the party pill ‘industry’ on their opinions and experiences with young people’s use of party pills.

“Use of party pills is a common and legal activity in New Zealand”, says Associate Professor Janie Sheridan of the Faculty of Medical and Health Sciences, lead investigator on the study. “We found that the young people in our study, who were mainly in full time work or study, predominantly use party pills on a social basis, and acknowledge the negative effects of the drugs and particularly the unpleasant nature of the ‘comedown’. At the point where they feel unwilling to cope with these negative effects, they seem to have had no problems cutting down their use of party pills, and many do.

“We didn’t find many serious short term problems linked with their party pill use, although many experts do express concerns about long term effects - which are currently unknown. There, are however, varying levels of knowledge about how to use party pills more safely, and many young people experiment with their use, by drinking alcohol with them, or driving under the influence of party pills. We also found a lack of understanding about what the products contain.”


Committee calls for ban on 'party pills'


5:25PM Wednesday December 20, 2006
New Zealand Herald

The Government has been advised to outlaw the sale of "party pills" by an expert committee which has been studying their dangers.

The pills can be legally purchased by those over 18, but critics say their main active ingredient benzylpiperazine (BZP) is dangerous and pill doses are often far higher than recommended, leading to significant potential harm.

A Cabinet committee is looking at whether BZP and related substances commonly found in party pills should be banned or further restricted.

Associate Health Minister Jim Anderton today said he was still considering the official advice from the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs (EACD), but had taken the step of releasing it so people were aware of the pills' dangers.

Mr Anderton, the Minister in charge of drug policy, said considering the advice was the first step he was required to make in taking any statutory decision.

He said one trial had shown frequent and severe side effects - including seizures - from the drug's use, suggesting the potential for serious harm for some users, even at relatively low doses.

"While there have been on recorded deaths attributed solely to the use of BZP, we know that severe adverse effects from the use of 'party pills' occur unpredictably.

"The expert committee was concerned that the seizures which have been recorded have the potential to kill."

The committee had recommended sale and possession of BZP be outlawed. The drug should be given a similar classification to cannabis.

But Mr Anderton said there were several legal steps he had to take before he could make a final decision on whether to recommend a ban on BZP.

They included seeking further information and advice, consulting fully with other government agencies and seeking public and industry views.

He aimed to conclude consultation by March 2007.

The National Party and New Zealand First have accused the Government of dragging its feet on the issue.
 
Hi everybody,

You'll be amazed to know this started out with some clubbers trying to improve the quality of drugs they were getting and to a degree harnessing some buy-in from government.

Where we are now, even if BZP gets turned over to the black market, we are going to keep our CLASS D SCHEDULE check it:

Expert Advisory Commitee on Drugs said:
4. that work continue to further develop the regulatory framework and enforcement capacity that would support the Restricted Substances provisions of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Act 2005.

The Committee wishes to emphasise the importance of the fourth recommendation, as new synthetic psychoactive substances are emerging at an increasing rate and the provisions of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Act 2005 allow tight restrictions to be placed on these drugs. While it is the EACD’s view that the research has now demonstrated that BZP does pose a moderate risk of harm, newer substances may be shown to pose a low risk of harm but still be worthy of restrictions. The Committee’s view is that the implementation of restrictions should place the burden of proof on the person supplying the substance to demonstrate the safety of a new psychoactive substance.

The Committee believes that the Government needs to explicitly consider whether it wants to put in place such arrangements to deal with non-therapeutic psychoactive substances that do genuinely pose a low risk of harm to health. In the Committee’s view, it is important that additional regulations supporting the provisions of the Misuse of Drugs Amendment Act 2005 are adequately supported. For example, a licensing regime might be required, which will require administration and enforcement capacity.
 
^
If I'm reading the Herald and Dominion Post articles right, they're saying that BZP should be Class C. :( I haven't read the report, though - have the press got it wrong? (surely not....).

Oh, on re-reading, I see what you're saying - Class D will remain as a schedule, even if BZP itself is moved to Class C. Here's to something new to take the place of BZP :)
 
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