NZ: BZP criminalised and taken from market - estimate 2 months!

[CuPillar]

it said illegal in some parts of australia?

where in aus is it legal and where is it illegal?

 

[Cyberdyne]

Fuck I wish they did make that shit illegal- its not fair on the other (and possibly less harmful) drugs that are criminalised. It is nasty nasty stuff- only the ignorant and misinformed would advocate it as a 'safe alternative' or substitute to 'harder drugs'. its like say substituting morphine for panadol

What on earth are you basing that on? The potentially nasty short term side effects act as a dosage regulator, and teach people to take drugs in moderation. Further there are no known long term permanent side effects whatsoever.

 

[VelocideX]

What on earth are you basing that on? The potentially nasty short term side effects act as a dosage regulator, and teach people to take drugs in moderation. Further there are no known long term permanent side effects whatsoever.

There's been no good long term studies in humans that I'm aware of, so how can you make a claim that there's no known long term permanent effects?

 

[Cyberdyne]

You proved my statement :D No 'known' long term side effects. Obviously because the drug is a fairly recent development there has been no chance to conduct studies into the, say, 10 year + period, however tat this stage there has been no evidence to suggest there is any liklihood of long term harm which is why they remain legal here.

 

[Infinite Jest]

There's been no good long term studies in humans that I'm aware of, so how can you make a claim that there's no known long term permanent effects?

Well, our Ministry of Health looked at the research quite carefully, and found no reason to ban it, or any evidence of harm. Obviously, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, but it's a good start.

Bear in mind too that we have quite a conservative government on drug issues. The guy responsible for this sort of thing (Associate Health Minister Jim Anderton) is anti-drug: if officials had found any evidence that supported a ban on BZP, then he would have made sure it was banned. As it is, it's being touted by government as a safer alternative to methamphetamine and ecstasy.

The legal situation: the proposal is that a new schedule will be added to the Misuse of Drugs Act. (Currently heroin, meth, LSD are Class A, ecstasy is Class B, and cannabis is Class C). They want to add a Class D, which would be for controlled drugs that weren't actually illegal - so they could put age limits on them, restrictions on sale and advertising, that sort of thing. There was supposed to be a Select Committee report on this earlier this year, but it's been delayed to allow a longer consultation period.

Slightly related: I'm doing a research essay on this topic at the moment (also on meth and ecstasy). I'll post up a link to it when I'm done (in a couple of weeks).

 

[Cyberdyne]

please do, i'd love a look at it!

 

[charlesbronson]

Originally posted by Cyberdyne
The potentially nasty short term side effects act as a dosage regulator, and teach people to take drugs in moderation. Further there are no known long term permanent side effects whatsoever.

Furthermore, the nasty side-effects will hopefully keep the frequency of BZP use to a reasonable level (dosage regulator, as Cyberdyne said ^^), so that if any long-term effects do emerge someday, most people will have kept their use within a relatively harmless threshold. This is one possibility.

Most importantly, the nature of the BZP high (intensity, duration, route of administration) and the adverse effects (and after effects) all act together to reduce the abuse potential of BZP, especially in comparison to drugs like smoked methamphetamine. Drugs with a lower abuse potential are generally better for society, and for people who are unable to avoid succumbing to drug dependence and destructive use habits (depending on what one thinks is best for their own lives) - the 'nastiness' of BZP that many people criticise is in fact one of the key limiting factors that prevent many people from developing a BZP addiction or habit. It is not a particularly well-formulated criticism of the drug or its high.

If a government were to make a recreational stimulant legal at this stage, BZP seems like as wise a choice as any to me. NZ's experience thus far is a case in point... although the creation of a new Class D would be a very prudent move which would hopefully allow users to better access advice and education about recreational piperazine use, in the hopes of further minimising the little harm that BZP and co. is causing for users in NZ at the moment.


Conclusion:

Originally posted by float_around
Fuck I wish they did make that shit illegal- its not fair on the other (and possibly less harmful) drugs that are criminalised. It is nasty nasty stuff- only the ignorant and misinformed would advocate it as a 'safe alternative' or substitute to 'harder drugs'. its like say substituting morphine for panadol

Invest more time into developing an evidence-based argument if you actually believe what you are saying. 'Harmful' doesn't just relate to how bad the comedown feels. Oh and morphine isn't always a better alternative to paracetamol.... e.g. morphine isn't an antipyretic.

 

[phase_dancer]

There have been a few fatalities reported, one from using MDMA with BZP.

Mass Spectra of Select Benzyl- and Phenyl- Piperazine Designer Drugs

Hans H. Maurer
Department of Experimental and Clinical Toxicology
University of Saarland
D-66421 Homburg (Saar)
Germany
[email: [email protected]]


Benzylpiperazines, Phenylpiperazines, Designer Drugs, Mass Spectrometry, Trimethylsilylation, Forensic Chemistry

Designer drugs of the benzyl- or phenyl- piperazine type, i.e., benzylpiperazine (BZP) itself, its methylenedioxy analogue 1-(3,4-methylenedioxybenzyl)piperazine (MDBP), 1-(3-trifluoromethylphenyl)piperazine (TFMPP), 1-(3-chlorophenyl)piperazine (mCPP), and 1-(4-methoxyphenyl)piperazine (MeOPP), recently have gained popularity and notoriety. Seizures have been made throughout the world (1-9), and a few fatalities have been reported (10-11). The increasing abuse of piperazines in the United States resulted in the temporary placement of BZP and TFMPP into Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act (12). BZP was permanently scheduled in March, 2004 (13); however, TFMPP is currently not controlled in the United States.


#

Balmelli C, Kupferschmidt H, Rentsch K, Schneemann M. [Fatal brain edema after ingestion of ecstasy and benzylpiperazine]. Dtsch. Med. Wochenschr. 2001;126:809-811.
#

Wikstrom M, Holmgren P, Ahlner J. A2 (N-benzylpiperazine), a new drug of abuse in Sweden. J. Anal. Toxicol. 2004;28:67-70.

Studies on the metabolism and toxicological detection of the new
designer drug N-benzylpiperazine in urine using gas
chromatography–mass spectrometry

Roland F. Staacka, Giselher Fritschib, Hans H. Maurera ,

Journal of Chromatography B, 773 (2002) 35–46

INTRODUCTION

Piperazine-like compounds have been found on the illicit market as a new group of designer drugs. The best known and most widespread compound of this drug group is N-benzylpiperazine (BZP, scene name ‘‘A2’’). BZP seems to become more and more popular in the scene of drug abusers as it could be seized by the police in different countries .

Organisations which check the ‘‘purity’’ of illegally sold tablets report its occurence more and more often (http: / /www.dancesafe.org). Even a fatality after use of BZP and MDMA has already been reported [4].
Shulgin mentioned BZP in his book PIKHAL as a ‘‘pure stimulant’’ [6], so-called drug information web sites describe it as a psychoactive chemical
(http: / /www.erowid.org, http: / /www.lycaeum.org, http: / /www.eve-rave.ch) and generally it is offered as an alternative to amphetamines. Actually, BZP is not really a new compound. Originally, it was synthesized as a potential anthel- mintic agent, but it was found to produce amphet- amine-like effects in rats and (at higher dosage) in humans [7,8]. These studies suggested an approxi- mate ratio of 10:1 (BZP:amphetamine) in the effect

Here's something more recent on the metabolism of TFMPP

Cytochrome P450 dependent metabolism of the new designer drug
1-(3-trifluoromethylphenyl)piperazine (TFMPP)
In vivo studies in Wistar and Dark Agouti rats as well as
in vitro studies in human liver microsomes

Roland F. Staack, Liane D. Paul, Dietmar Springer, Thomas Kraemer, Hans H. Maurer

Biochemical Pharmacology 67 (2004) 235–244


Abstract

1-(3-Trifluoromethylphenyl)piperazine (TFMPP) is a designer drug with serotonergic properties. Previous studies with maleWistar rats (WI) had shown, that TFMPP was metabolized mainly by aromatic hydroxylation. In the current study, it was examined whether this reaction may be catalyzed by cytochrome P450 (CYP)2D6 by comparing TFMPP vs. hydroxy TFMPP ratios in urine from female DarkAgouti rats, a model of the human CYP2D6 poor metabolizer phenotype (PM), male Dark Agouti rats, an intermediate model,and WI, amodel of the human CYP2D6 extensive metabolizer phenotype.

Furthermore, the human hepatic CYPs involved in TFMPP hydroxylation were identified using cDNA-expressed CYPs and human liver microsomes. Finally, TFMPP plasma levels in the above mentioned rats were compared. The urine studies suggested that TFMPP hydroxylation might be catalyzed by CYP2D6 in humans. Studies using human CYPs showed that CYP1A2, CYP2D6 and CYP3A4 catalyzed TFMPP hydroxylation, with CYP2D6 being the most important enzyme accounting for about 81% of the net intrinsic clearance, calculated using the relative activity factor approach. The hydroxylation was significantly inhibited by quinidine (77%) and metabolite formation in poor metabolizer genotype human liver microsomes was significantly lower (63%) compared to pooled human liver microsomes. Analysis of the plasma samples showed that female Dark Agouti rats exhibited significantly higher TFMPP plasma levels compared to those of male Dark Agouti rats and WI.

Furthermore, pretreatment of WI with the CYP2D inhibitor quinine resulted in significantly higher TFMPP plasma levels. In conclusion, the presented data give hints for possible differences in pharmacokinetics in human PM and human CYP2D6 extensive metabolizer phenotype subjects relevant for risk assessment.

Introduction

TFMPP is a new designer drug of the group of piperazine-derived compounds, which has appeared on the illicit drug market. It is mentioned as active hallucinogen in scene books [1] and on so-called drug information web sites (http://www.erowid.org, http://www.lycaeum.org). Generally, these piperazine drugs are sold and consumed as an alternative to amphetamine-derived designer drugs. Seizures could be made throughout the world and organizations which check the ‘‘purity’’ of illegally sold tablets have reported their occurrence more and more often (http://www.dancesafe.org). A fatality involving piperazine derived compounds has been reported [12].

 

[Infinite Jest]

phase_dancer: I'm aware of one fatality involving BZP - a Swiss woman. She had also taken MDMA, and died from water intoxication. Investigations pretty much cleared the BZP of any involvement in her death.

I agree with what Cyberdyne and charlesbronson say about the self-limiting nature of BZP use. It just doesn't feel as 'moreish' as MDMA. When I was taking ecstasy regularly, I would constantly be looking forward to the next 'roll'. With BZP, it's very much a 'take it or leave it' experience. I'd take it if I was going out - but I wouldn't plan on going out to a club just to take it, like I would with MDMA.

Incidentally, there've been two major stories on this issue today.

The Select Committee has reported back and recommended a new restricted substances category (e.g. Class D) for BZP. [edit] If anyone's interested, the full text of their report is available here (PDF) [/edit]

At the same time, a Christchurch woman had breathing problems and seizures and was admitted to intensive care after taking 10 pills. Doctors said she could have died.

Frankly, she was stupid. The recommended dose of these pills is generally 2-3 (and labelled on the box). The two boxes I have beside me (Exodus and Rapture) both recommend taking no more than two doses per week (although they both say you could take those two doses in a night). So she took at least 1 1/2 times the absolute maximum recommended dose. I'm reasonably experienced with these sort of drugs, and the most I've ever done in a night was six - usually four is plenty.

However, the retailers should bear some of the blame. Most problems with BZP/TMFPP seem to be occuring in Christchurch. This is probably because retailers are doing things like selling in bulk, at a discount, and selling pure BZP pills, unlabelled and cheap. They're basically giving the drug a bad name (if you look at the health problems and the negative media coverage, it all comes from Christchurch/Canterbury, or the nearby areas like Nelson and the West Coast. There's no negative coverage in Otago, or in the North Island).

 

[chopped_chimp]

Well it's still for sale....

At least you know exactly what you're getting and it lasts sooooo much longer. If I had the choice (ie if it was available in Oz.) I would take BZP anyday over a good pill.

 

[Cyberdyne]

Things are looking up in the nz market...piperazine based alternatives are going to be a pretty minor alternative soon...keep your eyes peeled people

 

[Splatt]

BZP is illegal in Queensland Australia, but you can still buy it. Tjhey';ll just change the name ans say it's some weird extract that keeps you up and gives you sexual energy or something. There's always loopholes in stuff like this. Just look at what the QLD Bong-Ban law did.. NOTHING! Expect to still buy it in shops....

 

[Cyberdyne]

simon, any progress on that research essay? It could be very very helpful for my dissertation

 

[charlesbronson]

Things are looking up in the nz market...piperazine based alternatives are going to be a pretty minor alternative soon...keep your eyes peeled people

hey cyberdyne, if you can, tell us a bit more about what info you came across that made you post this comment....

 

[Cyberdyne]

check ya pm's

 

[onz]

Sadly, u don't always know what u'r getting. Many won't tell you the mg of each piperazine, , pisses me off coz I'm always afte more tfmpp over bzp. 2:1

 

[phase_dancer]

Sadly, u don't always know what u'r getting. Many won't tell you the mg of each piperazine, , pisses me off coz I'm always afte more tfmpp over bzp. 2:1

If it's not restricted or regulated in any way, then why not purchase your own in bulk from a pharmaceutical chemical supplier? (USP grade or better).

 

[Cyberdyne]

Or try flippiperazine as comes in twisted or the big grin? To be perfectly honest I don't know which piperazine this actually is but the effects are interesting...

OR...(and heres the thing i wasnt sure if i could mention)

You could go to www.designerpills.com (this is not a source) and sign up to be a clinical test subject for a very new and very impressive legal drug alternative presently being trialled called Ease. You must be 21 or over and in the greater auckland region.

I wouldn't know any details as to content for a fact, but they contain no bzp (or other piperazines as far as i can tell), no ephedrine, nothing like 'herbal E' bullshit ingredients and are about as close to Ecstasy as it would even be possible to get. Give them a go because when they are released it will most likely be the death of the piperazine hype. It is very, very, very good, and this is not juts my personal opinion. Remember how everybody would bitch about bzp/tfmpp being like E without the love? The love just arrived...

 

[TheYellowDart]

Cyberdyne: wow, for a web site that takes so damn long to load it has next to no information whatsoever. None of what it delivered needed to be done through a fancy flash and the low bandwidth version was unavailable. I'm intrigued by this "brand new approach to harm reduction" but the web site doesn't go into any more detail than that, which is ridiculous. You don't happen to have any other links to share on this do you?

(Oh, and in case you interpret this as a personal attack on you it isn't in any way, I realise you probably have absolutely nothing to do with the organisation or its website.)

 

[Cyberdyne]

The low information is deliberate, the website is under construction, more information is not given out except in person after you sign up. If you are not based in Auckland you aren't entitled to more information. If you would like more information about some other projects you could try googleing Stargate or Stargate International but im not rly sure how far that'll get ya

If you don't live in Auckland, sorry mate :D