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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

NEWS - ABC 4 Corners 7/03/05 - "Messing with Heads"

rm1x said:
Really? I have been smoking it for what, 15 years now and I did'nt know that :| /end sarcasm

Watch the show, see what you think, next you'll be telling us that mdma is harmless and methamphetamine use causes no damage lol

Your responses are typical of an addict, blame everything else but the actual drug ;)
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I'd appreciate it if you'd read what I posted next time.

Firstly, I'm hardly an 'addict.' Smoking once a week or once a fortnight makes me an addict, huh? Don't assume anyone defending any sort of recreational cannabis use is an addict. Way to generalize.

Secondly, it's not 'addiction denial,' blaming everything else but the drug. I'm questioning whether or not it's right to make a value judgement on the use of a particular drug based on the effects it has had on the lives of .... many people, when, a) they chose to use the drug, b) they chose to abuse the drug, c) they should've known it was going to do them _some_ harm in the long-term.

You aren't MEANT to take ANY drug. Of course people will mess themselves up when they over-indulge.

and, lol, I'm not going to tell you MDMA and meth are harmless because, lol, I'm not stupid. I'm trying to make a point, being - it's all fine and well to say 'look, New Scientist has published articles connecting marijuana use with schizophrenia' and 'look, Jimmy dropped out in year 8 and sleeps in the streets because he started smoking dope at age 10' -

BUT, fundamentally, whether or not the recreational use of marijuana has links to latent schizophrenia, causes amotivational syndrome, extreme short term memory loss, paranoia, anxiety, all-pervasive, irrational self-consciousness, etc. the only one to blame is the user. No-one forces you to smoke daily, no-one forces you to smoke instead of writing your essay, no-one forces you (with your history of mental illness) to smoke repeatedly and trigger a schizophrenic episode.

Let's not resort to blaming more efficient growing techniques, gene splicing and higher quality weed for the faults uneducated PEOPLE are making with regards to their own lives.

So it's all fair to go and do a whole lot of research on kids screwing themselves over with evil dope, but is that really going to change anything? The problem isn't the drug, and it never has been or will be the drug. It's the user. Free will. Choice.

Blame peer pressure or poor drug awareness schemes and ineffective no tolerance policies if you will, but not the plant. It grows in dirt, sometimes indoors, sometimes outdoors. It takes in its water, its carbon dioxide and its sunlight and makes some ATP and some oxygen, just like most other plants. It also happens to make pretty looking buds that smell nicely when burned.

Some people happen to like smelling this particular burning plant a lot, and then wonder why they fucked themselves over down the track. Who's to blame here? What ought we be doing to minimize this harm? Demonizing a fucking plant, or trying to educate the kids of today on sensible drug use and the danger of abuse?
 
Deformed Neuron, you pointed out some good points about the articles.
Sourlemone, I'm just shit stirring you ;)

Now back to Media Watch for me ;)
 
You did'nt waste time, your posts were very well thought out and well written!
Good to see some intelligent responses on here, it might actually stop alot of debate over the issue. =D

Off to bed for me!
 
I watched it as well. Basically the 5-6 teens whom were interviewed had all begun smoking from 10-12 years old and had smoked daily for upwards of 3-4 years since they were 12 or 13. Smoking daily constituted getting high upwards of 10 times a day. Now who in their right mind isnt going to expect the possbility of mental illness after this much unmoderated use? These people are hardly indicative of the majority of people who smoke weed. Sure, i've smoked daily for a few months once, but I would smoke maybe 1 joint, or a couple of cones, not upwards of two dozen cones etc.

What I want to know, and what they didnt actually answer was whether or not prolonged use of marijuana (in moderation) would signifcantly increase the chance of a psychotic episode. They rattled off various figures, but nothing was really very convincing or cleacut at all. At one stage they said that you were 6% more likely to have a psychotic episode if you smoked weed frequently than not smoking it at all. I've got no idea where the figure came from but all-in-all there was nothing very comprehensive about the subject.

It was worthwhile watching, but it is by no means a gauge for mainstream marijuana use. Having watched it, I still feel safe enough to continue my usage.
 
All the people/teens whom were interviewed had "other" causes, such as family's splitting and/or abusive family's, and one kid had bipolar (sp?) the weed just seamed to trigger it rather than cause it :\

my 2c's
 
ANDO420 said:
All the people/teens whom were interviewed had "other" causes, such as family's splitting and/or abusive family's, and one kid had bipolar (sp?) the weed just seamed to trigger it rather than cause it :\

my 2c's
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I think the whole show was trying to point out that marijuana use in high quantites can trigger as they say 'latent' pyschosis, not cause it . . . which is the oldest, most worn out anti-dope theme ever presented.
Put the scares into me though, I'll tell ya, but then I'm in the process of quitting my habit . . . more pointless fear-mongering. The footage of that guy Danny in a manic state was kinda frightening, but I think his case is kinda rare. Some of those other teenagers on the show, I mean if its just weed thats affected them (I mean, they seemed more like zombies then humans) I would be really suprised. Anyway, the show was completely un-objective which is not what I consider good journalism. I hate the fact that media reports on drugs are always so completely skewed in one way, no other subject matter is reported with such vehement opposition. Well, before getting embroiled in what could be another huge weed debate, I'd say watch the show and then ignore it, thats what my mum told me! Peace to all. . .
 
Highlights were laughing at the gronk in rehab who reckoned if it wasn't for weed he would have a "full good office job" but instead didn't pass year 8 or the chick at the rehab place who was clearly stoned when being interviewed. Other than that the show pretty much sucked and didn't talk about anything new or offer evidence for old debates.
 
This program was extreamly biased and failed to indicated that cannabis rarely causes addiction and that the addiction is purely mental. All in all it gave cannabis a very bad wrap. however i agree that excessive daily cannabis use can cause problems for SOME users. I expected more balanced journalism from the likes of ABC. They also failed to explain the concept of set and setting to the viewers. If you get into the groove of smoking cannabis in the same place, everyday, with the same people, eating the same munchie food, this will fuck your head more then anything.
 
Deformed_Neuron said:
SpecTBK I doubt that "spinning your weed brown" with tobacco is going to cause psychotic outbreaks in people going through withdrawal. I know, that for some(most?) nicotine/tobacco is mighty hard to quit. It sends some a little over the top... a little edgey/anxious maybe. But, psychotic?
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LOL Yeah I doubt that the spinning has to do with the PSYCHOTIC stuff I was thinking more along he lines of being a grumpy ass to the people around me. Just my attitude itself towards people. But I must disagree also... I have seen mates parents go flippers cuz they can't find their smokes... THEY'RE JUST CIGGYS FOR F*%KS SAKE!!!!

But I would say that the Nicotine craving creates the addiction and as the pot gets down to business your body/physically and mentally begins to rely on the pot... Thus where withdrawal originates.

Was a very interesting thing about POT. It was also not biased as well, they weren't saying POT EVIL DRUG BLA BLA BLA. They were just saying people are getting introduced to it at alot younger ages etc... Also as for the Chick *stoned while interviewed* I dont think she was mate, you could tell by the way she was talking that she had the *dopey Voice* Also as for the Grammar dude, who's dad was interviewed that became friends with that surfer stoner musician chick (all musicians and surfer smoke bongs, or have... Yeah right Occy was chuckin a piss behind the dunnies, thats what the dunnies are for stoner) You could clearly seehim clenching his jaw he looked like he was buzzin off his head (which they said in the interview he had used amphets)

I have been smoking pot heavily (cut back since NY) and never at all in my stages of *addiction, withdrawal* not at all did I feel anything that those space cadets got. However when I smoke pot Iam not para's Im good, calm and just relax and let it work.... Other people on the other hand *Hallucinate, see things, hear things and PARANOIA* I have never Hallucinated off Marijuana, however I have once seen a shadow that wasn't there, thing is that was ONCE like prolly the 5th time I'd ever smoked pot. It's just simple. It's not a drug for everyone and it effects people differently. But today in this day and age, you're viewd as HARDCORE... for taking drugs, or DRUGFUCKED....

Me and my group of mates at High School were known as the Stoner Clan, everyone in the group was known to be a chonger or had at least tried pot. Ahhhh Memories.

I also like what I think it was *Jake* in the interview said.... You find out whow your friends are, you think you've got friends and then you got no pot and they're not around. When they hear word you've got pot they're over straight away! SO TRUE!

Funny how at the end they ask the Dad and *Best Mate* 'Do you think he smokes pot anymore?' Dad: No. Mate: No. Stoner: Yeah, I do, only a bit though.......

I personally would let them smoke with me a couple of times, but if it went more than 2-3 sessions without their shout. I would just sit and smoke bong after bong without passing it, when they finally asked (after 5 or so cones) I would say... you put in... Some might say rude, but I honestly couldn't give 2 shits. If they don't wanna chuck in then FUCK THAT... I don't need that shit in my life... (Al Pacino, Scarface) I just thought that quote fitted in well!

SpecTBK=D
 
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really really sorry for the long post but I'm sick and have nothing to do at the moment:

The entire story was a beat up, utilsing the precious currency 4 Corners has built up over the years before latent howardism took ahold of the news room.

The story's main point was that no matter the circumstance cannabis induced psychoses. Although touched upon lightly dose, age and life stresses are the real factors as to whether you'll suffer from a drug induced psychoses.

The scientific evidence shown (pretty much the only real piece, if you can call it that, of evidence shown on the report) was those brain scans of pot smoker(s?) and schizophrenia suffer(s?), being compared in that they both had similar blood flow patterns. Most stories that show such evidence usually touch upon background information such as the person of whom the scans came from, be it, they were 24 years old, consumed 1 gram of Marijuana on daily basis, their soco-economic situation and even health and background of the person's family as to whether they had a history of mental illness.

Thats why the neuro-scientist (Professor Vaughan Carr) could only give pulled out of his ass figures, even qualifying them as just "gut feeling". What sort of scientitific evidence is that. Seriously WTF!

The story was driven by the shrink, Dr Andrew Campbell. He was the one advocating the prognosis simply based on what he had seen within his cliental. Did he have research to back that up. Where was his cliental referred from, off the street or from drug treatment facilities. Did we get any background information about the make up of this cliental. Nup, just more pulled from the ass conclusions. I wouldn't be surprised to find out if Tobais and Danny Moore were patient of his.

What were these reports from europe? Who wrote them, who comissioned them?

Nevertheless i don't doubt the power of Marijuana to assist in inducing or exercebating psychoses. The point is, as many people have already reflected on, is that if you smoke every day, for several years in your teenage years, the same period that most (if not all) people go through massive upheaval, physically and emotionally that it is of little wonder when a powerful psychoactive substance like THC is heavily abused that psychoses is occurs.

It is the beginning trauma that started the ball rolling which no one seems to give a flying fuck about. If people knew how to deal with those problems I strongly believe that the incidents of psychose would drop.

For example I know my teenage drug use was caused by my parents break up. i smoked every day and never though about it for 4 years, classic case of drug assisted denial. The trigger event for my psychoses was the failure of my long term relationship, HSC, massive changes in the family, learning difficulties and so on that brought back all the pain that the drug assisted denial had stopped me from expericing.

It was 4 Corners failure to acknowledge the true extent that these sorts of factors have on a persons state of mind, and instead choosing to focus on Marijuana as the cause of most psychoses that destroyed its crediablity.

The shit that happens in our modem life is sufficient in itself to cause psychoses.

Drug use might exacerbate the cycle of denial, it certainly lowers your inhibition during a psychoses and exacerbate your behavior during such situations however its not the the holy grail of factors that is causing the psychoses in the first place.

Kids lose their path when there is nothing left to guide them except for themselves. Some kids are lucky and the few years teaching from their parents might give them barely enough skills to realise and learn from their mistakes before its too late. Some kids aren't and spiral off into destructive behaviors until the day the shit hits the fan and they die, or lose themselves forever.

Every facet of our society continues to be reactive to social and health issues, including the media. Worse still the few areas that could focus public opinion are being changed by people who continue to force their failed ideologies onto others. The ABC is being Howardised with commonsense programs such as the 4 Corners being forced to utilise their well earned currency to push subtle conservative themes such as this: "pot is bad, okay".

The fact 4 Corners would not discuss in detail the dosage, other drugs and socio-economic factors that would contribute to a "drug induced" psychoses reflects this. This story was almost melbournecentric with practically no other information or opinion sought from any other agency, group or individual involved in the drug debate. Seriously where is Dr Plats, Ted Notts and hey not even a Major Walker.

Either the Producer, and the exec Producer were ignorant sons of bitches (which i doubt) or there is some politics going on.
 
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I wana hear DR Grinspoons P.O.V...

Without moderation what can you expect... It's a Drug, just like every other drug, without moderation it's guna fuck you up!

SpecTBK=D
 
i watched the first 5 minutes and heard at least 2 or 3 "facts" stated that have been proven wrong or misrepresented by this program leaving out vital statistics and information that would have dumbed down their arguments or "facts". typical anti drug propaganda with worst case scenario fuck ups who smoked from ridiculously young ages. i'm not suggesting weed is a harmless drug, but this was biased bullshit as always. i expected more from the abc. how about a story on all the ways marijuana has helped people from all walks of life and not developed any negative consequences from their use for a change? i may be a dreamer, but i'm not the only one.
 
I haven't seen it, but from the responces I'm very surprised on how it was presented... I guess now we've just got SBS to tell us anything remotely 'truthful'....
 
load of bollox

What a crap doco - to think I missed half of 'Desperate Housewives' to watch this shit (yeah - I gave up 1/2 way through). No credible research was mentioned in the bit I saw - just a few case studies of people who smoked pot and experience psychoses (no causal link demonstrated). No sources cited for other claims ("pot much stronger" - "genetically modified") - in fact I'm pretty sure that there exists counter-evidence (probably on MAPS website?). Crap description of mechanism of action of cannabis ("it increases dopamine levels" - couldn't they go into it a little bit more? No consideration of anandamides, no discussion of CBD v. THC etc etc). Statistical evidence that levels of psychoses not increasing across the population (despite increased pot usage) dismissed on bogus grounds ("looking in the wrong place" WTF??). Limited discussion of confounding or complicating factors (other environmental influences etc).

Frankly, I expect more from the ABC - can we blaim Janet Albrechtson yet? ;)
 
The people on the show that had psychosis were having sessions upto 20 times a day.... I mean that could be taking it a little far..... i'm a heavy smoker but i can't afford to smoke 20 times a day and i can now limit myself to get a ten deal (2g) to last round 3-4 days..... however I smoke heavily on weekends...... i can understand though how scientists may have come to the conclusion that marijuana was this ""evil"" drug that destroys lives..... it only destroys your life when you allow it too!!!
 
Also people need to learn to listen to their bodies..... when your lungs hurt cut back for a week to let your body flush itself!
 
%) Sorry to say unless someone brings out some SOLID research on the subject, cant talk much, so we keep smoking, till then!!!:p
 
But I think if someone brings out 'solid research' all smokers are still gonna just say its skewed and biased. The best research is your own . . . I've smoked a fuckload over the years, and I'm not psychotic, most of my friends have done the same and their all relatively sane. All this show did was show a minute section of the marijuana society, if such a grandiose term may be used . . . and a really fucked up section at that.
 
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