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Most efficient way to use "fluffy cream #3" heroin? Current ROA seems wastefull

brooksy2k8

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
4
Based in the UK where apparently its more common, its described as PK Fluffy Cream #3 and is slightly more expensive than another type sold by the same source which is a browner rocky substance. This stuff is really powdery and dry and grinds up easily. It does not fully dissolve without some citric acid. Every other substance by this source is legitimate and relatively good.Skip ahead to the bold text if you dont want to read all the background info, I appreciate not everyone has the time!

First off im new to heroin, usually used to oxycodone 80's which I would primarily enjoy as they lasted pretty much a full day. Ive used 1.5G over the last week with 0.5G remaining, my tolerance was low opiate wise as I hadn't used opiates for a few weeks. It isnt really hitting the spot for me over oxy's and I think I would find it very difficult to overdose, not that I have been trying but I expected to get mild 'opiate sickness' where your feeling very warm and fuzzy yet your physically sick. Maybe im too cautious or just conservative, I just dont feel the need to redose and would probably not feel much more than a very baseline level high if i were to just blow through the small amount I have left.
Now I do feel the 'I can just get one more gram and stop' or 'ill just use it to get through this chore' which we all know is a trap, I don't know how addicted I will be having taken 2g over the space of a week but id rather go through the withdrawals now than further down the line.

ROA's Ive tried
Injecting - So I have sterile clean equipment but have never injected before. I made sure to get fresh supplies and advice from my local needle exchange, it wasn't the nicest experience but I wanted to make sure I did it in the safest way possible. I used about 0.5-1ml leaning towards 1ml which i dont know wether it was too much? Anyway dosage wise I used about 0.05g. It wouldnt mix straight away untill citric acid was added. I didnt burn it with a spoon but I dont know if thats really essential? Anyway time I found a vein straight away and remember feeling very tired and run down initially, I pretty much instantly felt relaxed and was everything appeared brighter for about half an hour, not quite the chilled out feeling of oxy though. Second time I pulled back on the needle and there was no blood so I withdrew the needle, I hit 2 more spots before finding a vein (I know, pretty stupid and I should have thrown it and used new equipment). I have one or two bruises that have pretty much cleared and I cant see any lasting damage although I have no reference. I didnt really feel much from it.
I dont plan to go via this method again I don't think. I wanted to experience it at least once but the dangers really outweigh the high for me. I probably did something wrong somewhere, my very first experience I had no tolerance and had only sniffed a small amount an hour or so beforehand. It was nice, but I got lucky finding a vein straight away unlike the second stab fest where I suspect I still didn't have a good vein as i never felt the full effect. There are almost no signs that I ever injected now, hopefully I havnt done any permanant damage? How long before you in the clear so to speak?

Nasal/Sniffing - If you've read this far you probably think im pretty stupid right about now having had a bad experience with injecting, I have been mainly sniffing it though. I make small lines that have gradually got larger as my tolerance increases, I heavily suspect my nose is clogged up although I can breath through it just fine and do clean it out with saltwater occasionally. Anyway the point of this thread - As it doesn't dissolve in water very well I am wondering if this is being wasteful and there is a more efficient method?
Some people recommend sniffing water afterwards, i find this just goes straight to the back of your throat though bypassing the nasal passages , its difficult to keep it from dripping out of your nose unless your laid down. Perhaps some sort of spray can be made ive read up on people using? Or perhaps, like other methods, the citric acid can be used alongside it somehow?

Plugging - Most Bluelighters I can imagine would find this method disgusting, in my opinion this is a much safer and preferable method to injecting so much that they outweigh injecting by not being nearly as dangerous. I use a sterile spoon, about 0.1g heroin, 5ml of boiled water (I let it cool before plugging but after mixing) and a little bit of citric acid. Everything dissolves and I do get a nice high but it seems to require a fair whack of heroin to be worthwhile compared to sniffing. This doesn;t make alot of sense as it should be a pretty similar ROA but less wasteful.
I am using a 5ml syringe however as deep as it will allow (about 6cm) in either a laid down on my front or side position. I usually leave it for about 10 minutes whilst remianing laid down as the one time i took it straight out I didnt really feel much. Im guessing it may not be deep enough and some of it is being wasted. Even a couple of mls would make a difference to the amount wasted.

Smoking - I have a glass pipe that I have tried this ROA with, i blocked off the bowl and placed the heroin straight in the glass otherwise it would just get stuck/caught in the mesh and probably wasted. Ive heard the smoke can escape very quickly. I had to use about 0.1g and im guessing my method was probably wasteful as it turned into a little liquid ball and very rapidly dissapeared and left a burnt residue - im guessing the glass got too hot but its pretty difficult to keep it at optimal temperature as its so small.


So anyway bit of a long post but I genuinely want to make the most of what I have in the safest way possible. I bet if i were a bit more daring and willing to use major vein sites that are more obvious (like the inner elbow) repeatedly I could make it last waaay more, I just cant justify the danger however.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I just have a niggling feeling im not making full use of it and wasting more than necessary. Willing to purchase whatever means are necessary if needs be. Thanks guys
 

MajjBenzo42

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
50
Is there any reason why, if you're asking for the most efficient way to do your drugs, that you didn't burn the spoon after putting the citric in?
And why you chose to use a glass meth/crack pipe when you have to run heroin on the foil to smoke it?
 

brooksy2k8

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
4
  1. What does burning the spoon actually do? As far I am aware its supposed to remove any impurities perhaps, or maybe sterile it? I did a lot of research on this any couldn't find any solid evidence that it does any good unless your dealing with black tar or sticky brown. A quick Quaora example that touches on it (sadly its ridiculous/near impossible to find harm prevention via search engines nowadays hence here).
    So to be clear im using a sterilised spoon and filter, light tan powdered heroin, sterilised water, needles and syringes. The powder doesn't all dissolve until you add some citric an we are talking a tiny amount). It leaves me with with pale brown liquid with no residue - although i thought i saw a small white crystal which i assumed to be citric, could be my imagination though.


  2. Its all I had available at the time. I didnt have any foil and from what ive read you need a specific typ of foil as some foils emmit a toxic resiue. Can anyone confirm or deny this??




Whilst I am searching for various topics myself I do have questions id love to ahve directly addressed and I think ive rambled too much on this post to get anyreal replies, so here's the short short version -

I would love to hear your safety and efficiency tips/tricks/experiences via any ROA! I want to give IV 1 more chance but not until im 100% sure im doing everything in my power to ensure im doing it relatively safely
 

Deru

Moderator: CEPS
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
1,509
Anyway dosage wise I used about 0.05g.
In regards to your IV experience, it's hard to say what purity you have, but 0.05mg would be a decent dose for 100% pure fentanyl. For street purity heroin, I can't imagine being able to feel 50 micrograms. Are you sure this is the correct dose?

What does burning the spoon actually do?
I wouldn't heat anything you're going to inject unless your prepared to boil it for a couple minutes and loss massive amount of drugs. It will only allow more inactive cuts to dissolve into the water. If it dissolves without heat, leave it be. Better harm reduction advice would be to use micron filters.
 

brooksy2k8

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
4
In regards to your IV experience, it's hard to say what purity you have, but 0.05mg would be a decent dose for 100% pure fentanyl. For street purity heroin, I can't imagine being able to feel 50 micrograms. Are you sure this is the correct dose?



I wouldn't heat anything you're going to inject unless your prepared to boil it for a couple minutes and loss mas
Sorry I ment to quote the above post regards to heating it as someone questioned as to why and I completely agree, its nice to get a second opinion though, thank you :)
The very first time I flamed the spoon you could see the evaporation which made stop and do more research into it., surely the drug evaporates along with the water?

Source is very reliable with plenty of feedback and has lab test (although even the best sources can easily tamper the results. I reckon i could comfortably and sniff 0.2g over 20 mins or so a you can probably tell i have absolutely no frame of referance and am trying to play it smart. I want to experience at least one nice IV rush though as I am so overly cautious and paranoid about safety its its not something i want to repeat often (if at all!)
Anyway here I go yabbering away again!

What dosage would you recommend? Or better still. links or topics on harm reduction?
 

Deru

Moderator: CEPS
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
1,509
surely the drug evaporates along with the water
As soon as it reaches it's vaporization point, yes, it will vaporize.

I reckon i could comfortably and sniff 0.2g over 20 mins or so a you can probably tell i have absolutely no frame of referance and am trying to play it smart. I want to experience at least one nice IV rush though as I am so overly cautious and paranoid about safety its its not something i want to repeat often (if at all!)
What dosage would you recommend?
It's so difficult to tell as even with a known lab gc/ms for one sample, their manufacturing process controls are inadequate and will vary throughout their own batches sometimes, let alone different batches.

Just to give a frame of reference, a hospital will usually give intravenous morphine to an opioid naive patient at 0.01mg to 0.03mg/kg as a starting dose.
 

F.U.B.A.R.

Moderator: BDD, OD, LAVA
Staff member
Joined
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Messages
17,828
Location
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In regards to your IV experience, it's hard to say what purity you have, but 0.05mg would be a decent dose for 100% pure fentanyl. For street purity heroin, I can't imagine being able to feel 50 micrograms. Are you sure this is the correct dose?
He said 0.05g mate - 50mg. That's more than enough for a noob.
 

F.U.B.A.R.

Moderator: BDD, OD, LAVA
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  1. Its all I had available at the time. I didnt have any foil and from what ive read you need a specific typ of foil as some foils emmit a toxic resiue. Can anyone confirm or deny this??

There are three types of foil to avoid:

1. Ultra cheap foil (anything less than a quid a roll) - Its too thin and catches fire easily

2. Turkey foil (the stuff with a diamond imprint on it) - it's far too thick and not smooth enough for the gear to run properly

3. Non stick foil - the non stick coating will make your gear disappear like magic before you've had chance to get a good lungful


Pretty much any other baking foil will do. Its standard practice to run a clean flame over the underside of the foil to burn off the layer of aluminium oxide that is reportedly toxic. However, this nicety soon falls by the wayside...

You also need to gently smooth out any creases and avoid touching any area other than the edge of the foil. Grease will frazzle your gear like fuck.
 

MajjBenzo42

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
50
Sorry I ment to quote the above post regards to heating it as someone questioned as to why and I completely agree, its nice to get a second opinion though, thank you :)
The very first time I flamed the spoon you could see the evaporation which made stop and do more research into it., surely the drug evaporates along with the water?

Source is very reliable with plenty of feedback and has lab test (although even the best sources can easily tamper the results. I reckon i could comfortably and sniff 0.2g over 20 mins or so a you can probably tell i have absolutely no frame of referance and am trying to play it smart. I want to experience at least one nice IV rush though as I am so overly cautious and paranoid about safety its its not something i want to repeat often (if at all!)
Anyway here I go yabbering away again!

What dosage would you recommend? Or better still. links or topics on harm reduction?
With regards to heating the spoon, DO IT!!!!!Can't stress how important this step is!
Plenty of water, around 8m for a 1ML hit 160m for a 2ML syringe.
Burning until it boils kills a ton of germs and viruses etc and it is the single most important safety measure.
Just make sure you use some (a pinch) of citric acid or a little more (1/10 of a teaspoon) of vitamin powder.
If it's strong gear, hit half of it, if you've got a tolerance, give it the whole hit!
 

Deru

Moderator: CEPS
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Burning until it boils kills a ton of germs and viruses etc and it is the single most important safety measure
It actually makes bacteria go into survival mode and become even more harmful to your body unless you boil it for long enough to kill them, at which point you would lose quite a bit of drug. Micron filters all the way.
 

F.U.B.A.R.

Moderator: BDD, OD, LAVA
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It actually makes bacteria go into survival mode and become even more harmful to your body unless you boil it for long enough to kill them, at which point you would lose quite a bit of drug. Micron filters all the way.
Yes, clinical sterilisation using autoclaves uses steam at about 160°c coupled with high pressure for about 20 minutes iirc. Flash boiling is very unlikely to do a great deal except instil a false sense of security.
 

MajjBenzo42

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
50
It actually makes bacteria go into survival mode and become even more harmful to your body unless you boil it for long enough to kill them, at which point you would lose quite a bit of drug. Micron filters all the way.
Sorry, don't mean to be rude but what you just said has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. Nothing goes into 'survival mode'! Bacteria just die if they are not strong enough to handle the temperature and the ones that don't die are in such a minuscule amount that they are harmless.
It seems you're trying to equate the overuse of antibiotics and the emergence of 'superbugs' with basic hygiene.

You don't lose hardly any of the drugs either.
Same goes for the comment above mine. You're taking the fact that a hit is safer and breaks down better with a quick burn to the spoon than if you didn't and raising it to stupid levels.
Superbugs and autoclaves? Do you all heat your bottoms to 300 degrees and irradiate your bunghole because anything else is just not worth it?
It's simple, burn your spoon for cleaner and stronger gear. Or fuck about with it because you read something once about how a tattoo needle is sterilised.

But I would assume shitty and irrelevant advice would be frowned upon in here?
 

F.U.B.A.R.

Moderator: BDD, OD, LAVA
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Sorry, don't mean to be rude but what you just said has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. Nothing goes into 'survival mode'! Bacteria just die if they are not strong enough to handle the temperature and the ones that don't die are in such a minuscule amount that they are harmless.
It seems you're trying to equate the overuse of antibiotics and the emergence of 'superbugs' with basic hygiene.

You don't lose hardly any of the drugs either.
Same goes for the comment above mine. You're taking the fact that a hit is safer and breaks down better with a quick burn to the spoon than if you didn't and raising it to stupid levels.
Superbugs and autoclaves? Do you all heat your bottoms to 300 degrees and irradiate your bunghole because anything else is just not worth it?
It's simple, burn your spoon for cleaner and stronger gear. Or fuck about with it because you read something once about how a tattoo needle is sterilised.

But I would assume shitty and irrelevant advice would be frowned upon in here?
You're missing the point methinks. Yes, I think a flash boil is better than nothing, but it's not going to sterilise your gear.
 

MajjBenzo42

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
50
You're missing the point methinks. Yes, I think a flash boil is better than nothing, but it's not going to sterilise your gear.
I never said it would sterilise your gear. I said, and stand by saying, that citric acid or vit C will separate your gear from a cloudy and gritty colloid into a clearish brown liquid as it will dissolve the smack and change the brown powder into a little sludge that is easily drawn through a ciggie filter.
I did say it kills a fuckton of germs and that's true as well. So if OP wants a nice clean hit without any colloid and a syringe full of mostly Diamorphine Hydrochloride without any shite and bugs then that's the way to go.
However, if he wants his tenner bag sterilised under laboratory conditions he can always learn to/pay to have that done as well.
 

Xorkoth

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Good catch 👍

Yeah, 50 mg should be more than enough. I started around 20 mg intravenous, 0.02 grams, and that was almost too much.
The first time I did heroin, I had 99% pure stuff from Pakistan, a tan powder that reeked of vinegar, and was lab verified by a guy with a lab who was in our small group of secret drug group buyers. I snorted 10mg and nodded for a couple of hours... and I was not opiate naïve, I was addicted to kratom and occasionally morphine. Pure heroin is very potent, of course not as potent as fentanyl and shit but way more potent than most people think, because of how shit street quality is of drugs these days.
 

Deru

Moderator: CEPS
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Nothing goes into 'survival mode'!
Yes, it does. There are many studies that find that when bacteria are subjected to high heat, their defense mechanisms activate and they go into survival mode. They've been on this planet for quite a while, they've had a pretty long time to evolve ;)

I prefer to trust science versus what some guy does to sterilize his needle for a tattoo, but to each their own.

I said, and stand by saying, that citric acid or vit C will separate your gear from a cloudy and gritty colloid into a clearish brown liquid as it will dissolve the smack and change the brown powder into a little sludge that is easily drawn through a ciggie filter.
I wouldn't heat anything you're going to inject unless your prepared to boil it for a couple minutes and loss massive amount of drugs. It will only allow more inactive cuts to dissolve into the water. If it dissolves without heat, leave it be. Better harm reduction advice would be to use micron filters.
^ So... What about this is bad advice? If you felt I was arguing with you, I wasn't - I was in fact in agreement with the point you just made, some do require heat or "a quick burn of the spoon", as you say. 100%.

My point was about continuing to try to boil the solution in some hope that it would kill all the bacteria or unnecessarily applying heat for anything doesn't need it, because then you're just allowing more inactive cuts to dissolve into the water, too.

This is also why I recommended micron filters.

It's a mitigation game, risk versus reward, and that will vary depending upon a lot of factors. It's better to have as much information as possible to better make those decisions, that's what harm reduction is all about.
 
Last edited:

MajjBenzo42

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
50
Yes, it does. There are many studies that find that when bacteria are subjected to high heat, their defense mechanisms activate and they go into survival mode. They've been on this planet for quite a while, they've had a pretty long time to evolve ;)

I prefer to trust science versus what some guy does to sterilize his needle for a tattoo, but to each their own.
I'd like to ask "I prefer to trust science versus what some guy does to sterilize his needle for a tattoo, but to each their own." ~ what is this sentence referring to?
What could possibly make you think I base my knowledge of bacteria and medical hygiene on what anyone has ever said, or will ever say, about tattoos?

Three times you said burning the spoon and boiling your gear was harmful!

"My point was about continuing to try to boil the solution in some hope that it would kill all the bacteria or unnecessarily applying heat for anything doesn't need it,"
Not once did I say keep boiling it until it's gone, or 'the longer you burn it the safer it will be'.
 

Deru

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Not once did I say keep boiling it until it's gone, or 'the longer you burn it the safer it will be'.
My original post, although it came after yours, was not meant to dispute your post.

It was a direct response to the OP and I was trying to give a generalized response to the portion I quoted.

It's about mitigating risk, if you can eliminate that portion of risk, it is worthwhile. Sometimes you can not eliminate that portion of risk and need to heat it, as I originally mentioned. Neither way is ever going to bring you to zero risk, it's only about mitigation, and what can work best for what you're working with, and that can vary greatly depending upon so many things besides the drug alone (the cuts.)

The portion I quoted from you was an opposing viewpoint to your suggestion, whether you believe it is valid or not is fine, but your non-civil responses and personal attacks on me make further discussion difficult.

It is something worthy of being weighed, regardless. And does, in fact, happen.

You're also suggesting to use cigarette filters, but I left that one alone...
 
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