MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support)

Status
Not open for further replies.

BlueBull

Moderator: M&ED
Staff member
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Messages
2,774
Hey Dan, Sorry in advance for the long post.
Yeah, that seems like a perfectly 'normal' severe comedown following MDMA abuse. All the symptoms you describe point in that direction. I would even go so far as to say that after such use your body seems to be handling it quite well. I used to abuse the shit out of MDMA, partly because of uninformed use and partly because of carelessness. And then I had my worst comedown yet (after using 4 days in a row, stupidest thing I've ever done with drugs) which made me change the way I used MDMA. The depression was absolutely crippling and it was constant, not periodical like in your case. I was suicidal every waking minute. I had massive anxiety attacks triggered by ingesting anything psychoactive, whether it was caffeine or THC. And on top of that I had brain zaps, heart rhythm irregularities, tremors, headaches,... The physical symptoms took about a week or two to completely clear up but the depression and anxiety took a while longer, the worst was over by the end of week 3 but I had lingering depression and anxiety for about 1.5 months. And just like you I only experienced very short comedowns before that if I had a comedown at all, 90% of the time I have an afterglow

It's your body finally telling you "enough is enough", it will recover in time and when taken care of. Look at it this way: with such abuse you are actually pretty lucky your symptoms aren't worse and if people that have it worse than you recover in time, you will too.
To ease your mind a bit about the possibility of having caused permanent damage a quote from a study:
With regard to MDMA-induced neurotoxicity, it seems that 5-HT deficits are not always synonymous with axonal death because doses of MDMA which cause marked depletions of brain tissue 5-HT in rats (e.g., 10–20 mg/kg) are not associated with silver-positive staining, reactive gliosis, or loss of SERT protein. Like many other psychotropic drugs, MDMA is capable of producing bona fide neurotoxicity at sufficient doses (e.g., >25 mg/kg), and damage is not confined to 5-HT neurons. Many aspects of 5-HT function appear to be normal in MDMA-pretreated rats despite significant loss of brain 5-HT, perhaps illustrating the profound adaptive capability of the CNS.
What this essentially says is that even in high, repeated and injected doses MDMA does not seem to produce signs of neurotoxic damage. 10-20mg/kg is about 700mg-1400mg for a human weighing 70kg, this was repeated multiple times on consecutive days and it was IV'd, which has a much higher bioavailability than when taken orally. MDMA can cause real neurotoxic damage, but only in insanely high and repeated doses (read: potentially lethal doses. >25mg/kg is >1750mg for a human weighing 70kg). So while your use is certainly unhealthy and could have caused some temporary physical and psychological symptoms, you have not caused permanent noticeable damage, it takes a lot more to do that according to this study. You are experiencing a normal, be it severe, comedown. Ride it out and understand that it will probably happen again if you continue using MDMA like that. Take care of yourself and I hope you are back to normal soon, if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask. If you fancy a chat or for any other reason really you can always PM me. Keep us updated!
 
Last edited:

ro4eva

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
3,881
Location
Indubitably
Hello all,
Most of you don't have a clue who I am so ill give a brief introduction.
My name is Robin and im currently 20 years old. Before experimenting with hard drugs (xtc and cocaine) I never experienced any mental issues. Prior to my ltc I was a pretty heavy drinker (not daily, but usually large amounts in the weekends), mental breakdown/ltc started after heavy alcohol and some cocaine use on new years eve, only a few weeks before this I took xtc for the first time (had no comedown from this use and it was an amazing experience).
Hello MasterMinded, I'm the guy who regrets the nickname he chose way back in 2004 while extremely high ro4eva - nice to meet you ;)

Over the past 8 months I've been actively reading this thread and rarely posted anything. Today however I felt the need to share where I am at now in terms of recovery. I have suffered from: panic attacks, severe depression, severe anxiety (mainly health anxiety as most of us, but also from pure-ocd anxiety).
Yeah, I remember how my anxiety levels would spike as well just from worrying about whether I would ever recover from what was the most difficult 19 months of my life.

It is a very heavy burden which you've had to carry, but 100% recovery is definitely possible.

Symptoms that came along with this were: muscle spasms, severe twitches, tremors, pins and needles, burning skin sensations, dp/dr (had this for like 2 months, was awful), waking up early in the morning around the same time no matter how late or how early I went to bed (usually waking up severely depressed), obsessive and intrusive thoughts (mostly about self-harm, never ever harmed myself though and never will), hyperventilation (even chronic for a while) and feeling my heart pulse literally everywhere.
Funny you mention the bit about "waking up early in the morning around the same time no matter how late or how early I went to bed," because, I thought I was the only one who experienced that oddball pattern of (abnormal) sleep.

No matter what time I went to bed at either, I would always wake up at a certain time (usually around 05:45), and it would drive me totally cuckoo.

After a time, I decided to bring it up with my psychiatrist, and he didn't know what to make of it either (didn't know the exact cause). However, his "strategy" to deal with the issue certainly did end up working - it involved prescription medication in the form of an atypical neuroleptic (antipsychotic) known as Seroquel (Quetiapine). And my goodness did it ever knock me on my ass. I went from sleeping an average of 5 hours to roughly 12.

Later on, after I had a sort of falling out with the aforementioned quack of a shrink, my 2nd psychiatrist managed to get a hold of my chart and notified me that I should not have been Rx'd an antipsychotic purely for issues with insomnia - regardless of whether or not there was concern due to a history of drug "abuse."

Sorry, I can't stand the word "abuse" when it's combined with "drug," as it sounds like I ended up victimizing a substance because I did not consume it with a doctor or government permission slip. It's complicated, but I prefer drug misuse, if anything, but sorry to go off topic.

During my ltc I've consumed a very low dose of xtc on one occasion and this resulted in severe worsening of the symptoms. During my ltc I've used an ad called mirtazapine for 2 weeks after which I decided to stop taking it and fully commit myself to the non-med route (I did use lorazepam now and then when my anxiety was really bad, but never abused it). I also recently started with cbt which I can really recommend to anyone suffering from negative thoughts.
Regarding the low dose of ecstasy which you used on one occasion during your LTC - do you know for certain whether it was actually MDMA? I ask because I'm really concerned about the pills, capsules, powder, and shards/crystals being sold nowadays as ecstasy/MDMA. Unfortunately, the ratio of bunk to actual ecstasy or MDMA has increased (in the favor of bunk) big time. If you wish to know more, please read my previous post (#1486).

Moving on - I'm curious (if you don't mind me asking) why you decided to stop taking the Avanza (Mirtazapine). Was it due to severe side effects which made you feel even worse? Don't worry, I'm not trying to give you a hard time or anything (I would never); just curious that's all. But if you don't wanna tell me, I can accept that no problem :)

With respect to you possibly "abusing" your Ativan (Lorazepam) pills, I just wanna say that you don't need to justify your use of a Benzodiazepine to anyone (at least that's the way it should be IMO). Yes, Benzodiazepines can be habit forming. And chronic, long term use will eventually result in a physical dependency. However, as someone who has been suffering from Panic Disorder for almost 2 decades; as someone who has experienced countless full-blown, massive panic attacks which never get old with respect to how scary they are, I know that Ativan (Lorazepam) offers enormous, quick, much-needed relief.

So despite what some arrogant acquaintance may have to say regarding your use of this medication, never feel guilty about it, as it's your right to receive treatment for a medical issue affecting your quality of life.

That being said, if you do find that the use of Ativan (Lorazpam) does result in intense euphoria (usually Benzodiazepines don't do this, especially if you're suffering from anxiety and/or panic attacks), I'd just like to point out for the record that I'm not trying to encourage you to relentlessly and recklessly chase some drug-induced high. This probably wasn't necessary to say, but I have to cover my ass just in case.

By the way, in case you didn't know (and/or you're wondering), my advice in relation to the Ativan (Lorazpam) is based on ~8.5 years of Xanax (Alprazolam) prescription use for Panic Disorder. And during that time, I also used Ativan (Lorazepam) for about 2 months (my psychiatrist tried to switch me in 2010 and 2011 to other Benzos due to fears of CYP 3A4 inhibition, but ultimately abandoned it).

Right now I consider myself 80-90% recovered, my physical symptoms have all vanished, I'm able to focus on school tasks again, able to drink again and deal with the comedown and basically able to enjoy life again (not to the fullest yet, but im getting there). The reason I'm saying 80-90% and not 100% is because I'm still suffering from obsessive disturbing thoughts and some anxiety/depression that comes with this, however this is very minimal compared to what it was. This whole experience has left a huge mental scar and I think it did traumatize me, but I also got a lot stronger mentally during the process and I'm more grateful for my life then ever before. Also I'm a lot more careful and I don't take being mentally stable for granted anymore.
Just so you are aware, Ethyl Alcohol consumption carries several risks which the public is typically not told about.

For one, any amount of Ethyl Alcohol (e.g. one beer, one shot, etc.) is now considered to be carcinogenic. The World Health Organization, and The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) now considers Ethyl Alcohol to be a Group 1 Carcinogen after the completion of a long term study. Other examples of Group 1 Carcinogens include (but are not limited to) Arsenic, Asbestos, Formaldehyde, and (Radioactive) Isotopes.

Secondly, the consumption of Ethyl Alcohol in an amount required to intoxicate the consumer/user is known to be neurotoxic (kills brain cells), hepatotoxic (liver cells), and cardiotoxic (heart cells).

It is also - in my opinion - a poor choice for anyone who uses it for its ability to reduce anxiety levels due to the fact that it has such a short half-life. And once eliminated from the body, the anxiety typically returns, and it's not unusual for the level of the anxiety to be higher than it was before the consumption of the corresponding alcoholic beverage.

Edit - This was very harshly confirmed to me when I tried to use alcohol as an anxiety/panic attack medication. Things went downhill really fast. Within 3 or 4 days, I was physically dependent and had to go through withdrawal (that was awful).

Be that as it may - I have no right to tell you what to do with your body; I am not judging you in any way sweetheart; and I always accept you as you are. So, if you wish to drink, please don't let me stop you. You do what you wanna do - I sincerely mean that with all due respect.

As this is a harm reduction forum, I'm just trying to help you to understand (some) of the risks involved with the consumption of alcoholic beverages. It's so socially accepted in our society nowadays that a beer commercial on TV will typically only tell us to "please drink responsibly" with respect to risks.

There's a possibility (however small) that drinking may not be the best option right now. And it may be undermining your recovery. Keyword however is "maybe" and not "definitely."

Again though, if you wanna drink, cheers :)

Also I want to give a big shout out to all the fanatic posters on this thread (you know who you are), I cannot put in words how thankful I am. The relieve and comfort you people have provided me with during this process is just amazing. You guys kept me motivated at times that were extremely dark and even up to this day I still feel extremely connected to all of you. I am still not there yet, but I will be one day in the near future and so will all of you. God bless all of you!
If you managed to read everything I posted, you are a trooper, and I need to shut up.

Don't give up; we'll be here if you need us; I'm craving pizza; we understand what you're going through; do not feel alone because you're not; I'm glad we have the internet to connect us; I can smell the pepperoni.

All (possibly poor attempts at) dry jokes aside, we'll be here if you need us.

Good luck, God bless you, and I hope you have a wonderful day :)
 
Last edited:

pmz

Bluelighter
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
548
Pmz smoking weed now? Wtf. Dude you made it. You've recovered
Lol. I even smoked before work today and have been killing it. I realized I just needed to let go when I'm high. I smoked last night again as well. Woke up this morning feeling great.

No I have not recovered. I keep getting better though.

My path of recovery is very interesting. I'll be good for a while. Then get hopelessly depressed. Once I immerse from that depression. I'm in fact closer to recovery than before. Its so weird. But every time I relapse into depression again. Its a sign things are about to get way better. And that's what just happened this past week. I got out of it. Was feeling great. And I randomly felt confident enough to get drunk and high. Like really really high. And I loved it. Totally helped me learn to let got even more so.

My head doesn't feel nearly as foggy this week either. Well see how things go in the next few weeks though. But it's a roller coaster that only keeps improving
 

Deltronpedro

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
203
Hey guys,
The bottom line is I feel quite fine. Anxiety is good to handle, depression also.
Im worrying about some strange feelings. Sometime it feels like my body was some kind of strange, not me, dont know how to explain. Like touching things feels strange or some things seem to be not the same as they were. Some kind of plastic. Anyone experienced that? Is it what you call DP?
Best wishes to all sufferes outside!
 

Dawglaw

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 28, 2012
Messages
953
Location
The moon
PMZ - you're on a roll. Great news. I knew I was good when I could blaze again without problems. Funny thing is prior to my comedown I quit smoking because it gave me nasty anxiety and paranoia. Now I can smoke at will. I don't smoke a ton but I never have any problems unless I get drunk and do a dab or eat a brownie.

You are right, in the end my LTC was almost a blessing. It definitely made me take control of my life and really helped me change my personality for the better.
 

JWills20

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
2,510
Location
England
Hi there,

If you ask me I believe your symptoms are just underlying problems. I'll explain why.

Some points severely depressed (not motivated for anything and nothing matters, though this would only last for a few minute)
This is pretty normal as an adult. Life doesn't always have spark and flair and you don't always have motivation to do things. I get this too and it lasts longer than a few minutes. It is in no way related to my MDMA use. I've had it for years before I even took the drug.

Insecure (over thinking things and just thinking every hates me and that I look like a faggot)
This just doesn't sound like a comedown. Insecurities are usually problems you already have without any drug use. Perhaps MDMA has brought it out, but you have to tackle it as a psychological issue. An insecurity is not brain damage. It's usually a dysfunction of thought processing formulated from negative prior experiences reinforcing themselves.

Random happiness (everything can be fixed and that everything will work out, almost like an afterglow, would only last a few minutes as well)
Mood swings are pretty common. The way you express moments of no motivation and depression with random moments of happiness is symptomatic of bipolar-like depression. However, once more it's unlikely that MDMA is causing these issues four weeks later. It's more likely that you already had these problems and the comedown has triggered them and now they are effecting your life more.

Ask yourself questions about why you feel like you do. Could it be that you already experienced this in the past? Could it be that things in life just aren't like you want them? Are you happy socially? Is MDMA really to blame? It might be easy to blame MDMA for all these issues as some sort of 'scapegoat'. But if you do that you'll never tackle the real psychological problems occurring. The bottom line is that there is no evidence for long-term brain damage from usage like yours. Taking the drug twice at the doses you're reporting is not even near the point of causing 'permanent damage' so you need to move away from that as an explanation. Instead try to think of other reasons why you're feeling like you are. You might find you begin to improve once you do that.

Going to merge this into our support thread where lots of other guys with specific experience can help you out.
 

HiManImDan

Bluelighter
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
88
Hi there,

If you ask me I believe your symptoms are just underlying problems. I'll explain why.



This is pretty normal as an adult. Life doesn't always have spark and flair and you don't always have motivation to do things. I get this too and it lasts longer than a few minutes. It is in no way related to my MDMA use. I've had it for years before I even took the drug.



This just doesn't sound like a comedown. Insecurities are usually problems you already have without any drug use. Perhaps MDMA has brought it out, but you have to tackle it as a psychological issue. An insecurity is not brain damage. It's usually a dysfunction of thought processing formulated from negative prior experiences reinforcing themselves.



Mood swings are pretty common. The way you express moments of no motivation and depression with random moments of happiness is symptomatic of bipolar-like depression. However, once more it's unlikely that MDMA is causing these issues four weeks later. It's more likely that you already had these problems and the comedown has triggered them and now they are effecting your life more.

Ask yourself questions about why you feel like you do. Could it be that you already experienced this in the past? Could it be that things in life just aren't like you want them? Are you happy socially? Is MDMA really to blame? It might be easy to blame MDMA for all these issues as some sort of 'scapegoat'. But if you do that you'll never tackle the real psychological problems occurring. The bottom line is that there is no evidence for long-term brain damage from usage like yours. Taking the drug twice at the doses you're reporting is not even near the point of causing 'permanent damage' so you need to move away from that as an explanation. Instead try to think of other reasons why you're feeling like you are. You might find you begin to improve once you do that.

Going to merge this into our support thread where lots of other guys with specific experience can help you out.
Thanks! Makes sense!
 

ro4eva

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
3,881
Location
Indubitably
Hey guys,
The bottom line is I feel quite fine. Anxiety is good to handle, depression also.
Im worrying about some strange feelings. Sometime it feels like my body was some kind of strange, not me, dont know how to explain. Like touching things feels strange or some things seem to be not the same as they were. Some kind of plastic. Anyone experienced that? Is it what you call DP?
Best wishes to all sufferes outside!
That definitely sounds like DP/DR to me because I was experiencing very similar issues when I was sick from my bout with a so-called LTC as well.

It would affect me the most whenever I would have to reach for something which was out of sight in order to grab it.

For example, I'd reach into a duffel bag to grab a toothbrush and it would take me forever to make the connection that what I was feeling was my toothbrush and not a pen or something.

And then there was the other end of the "spectrum" (for lack of a better term) where, for example, I could very clearly see a plate in front of me which I was supposed to grab in order to put my dinner on it. And despite the fact that there was no line of sight issues, picking up the plate would trigger a sort of fleeting limbo effect where I would observe that it all felt as if I was in a dream, or that it wasn't me who was grabbing the plate, and that I was merely along for the ride, which was very unsettling to say the least.

I could list countless more examples, but hopefully what I've already written will suffice.

To sum it up, this is how I was affected by DP/DR for the most part. There were some oddities here and there, but they were too far and few in between to recall in detail off the top of my head.

I know all too well from extensive practical or first-hand experience that living with DP/DR can REALLY get to those of us which are affected by it, but I also know from trial and error that there are steps which can be taken which may reduce the severity, and I don't necessarily mean by resorting to medication, but I digress.

Easier said than done for sure, but try to hang in there. With a treatment plan tailored to suit your genetic makeup (or the way you happen to be 'wired'), any DP/DR is only temporary.
 

Tpchan85

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
85
Anyone else has 24/7 muscle twitching, rippling and vibrating all over? This along with constant muscle pains especially in the top of my arms is what is prolonging my recovery - it gets worse when I get anxious but it doesn't go away when I'm not anxious. I just generally feel uncomfortable all the time due to some combination of both pain and twitching. I ask because I'm trying to figure out what is anxiety and what isn't.

An interesting point I think everyone here should consider:- I'm being treated for diagnosed vitamin B12 deficiency. Vitamin B12 deficiency causes multiple sclerosis symptoms, as it advances the coating on nerves get damaged. My deficiency was only mild but I dread to think of how that complicated the picture with regards to heavy MDMA use. I think it's likely my LTC wouldn't have happened had I have been perfectly healthy. Remarkably after my first B12 shot I woke up feeling like myself again with no derealization.

I don't want to provoke anyones health anxiety but don't let this LTC idea be a catch all. Go to your doctor, ask for blood tests and get copies of the results to scrutinise for yourself.
 

mike55

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
29
hey guys, i was wondering if ANYONE could help me out in this very difficult time of mine with some type of reassurance or hope. my heart goes out to all the sufferers on this page as before this time i didnt realize how many people are damaged now i know first hand. before stating whats wrong i wanna genuinely give my heartfelt thank to everyone of you posters and people who reply who seek to help all these people in this time of distress. this experience that im going through has hit a total 180 in my life as before this my life was perfect and this has changed me forever (if i recover definitely for the positive.) it has definately brought my awareness of how ignorant i was thinking without testing or severely trusting my source how damaging ingesting unknown chemicals can be to my body thinking i was prone to injury.

I just need some support im 5 weeks alcohol free and 6 weeks weed free but i feel as if im severely/permanently damaged. now i know what ur gonna say "everyone says that, ur just seeing it darker than it is u will recover" but i feel as if my scenario is different. its not like i just had an overdose or excess amount of mdma/coke etc or went on a binge for years and feel a little brain fog and depressed but generally ok. i unknowingly and very stupidly ingested some type of research chemical/ bathroom chemicals god knows what that was sold to me as molly without testing it from a used to be friend of mine that convinced me it was good. turns out it was the opposite of that. it wasnt even enjoyable at all it just caused an altered state so i have no idea what it was. now im so scared because idk what it was/ in it and i know there are things out there 100x more nuerotoxic than the classic meth/coke/mdma and a lot more unforgiving in the recovery process and we dont know the type of damage these mystery chemicals do.

i go back and forth being optimistic then doubtful cuz i know the brain is remarkable in the ways it can recover and regenerate such as nueroregeneration and how addicts can save and recover their brain, but then i read how it really depends the severity of stress it was under/chemicals it was exposed to as some nuerotoxic damage is permanent and already done such as axons destroyed or nuerons killed or communication disrupted and the cns is unlikely to recover from that damage.

now i have the classic depersonalization/ derealization symptoms which honestly is the least of my worries considering its a common symptom that goes away and i can ignore it for the most part ( even though its extremely annoying and wish i could go back to normal and feel in the moment) twitches, fatigue etc. but my most worried symptoms is i literally have ZERO sensation upon orgasm and my adverse effects to marijuana. i know not smoking weed shouldnt be one of my top worries but i rolled/tripped for fun occasionally but weed is like my PASSION. my one and true love, its not like its just something to do when im bored or fun sometimes or just a phase like i planned a whole future with it, smoking with future gfs moving to cali like im an enthusiast. and now my other love (sex) is stripped away from me as well so i cant even enjoy the other pleasure of life. alcohol doesnt even make me feel good. i get drunk but dont feel good. And i am a very experienced smoker (5 times a week for years) its not like my adverse effect is im "trippin" or "too high" or get paranoid it LITERALLY doesnt induce a weed high. my eyes dilate, n i get a tingling wired opiate like feeling tht feels terrible n i pass out unconscious for like 5 seconds. idk if its a seretonin/ communication problem or damaged receptors or axons but its like anything tht releases dopamine and seretonin i cant feel.

its the craziest thing ive never xp b4 in my life. so my two loves sex and weed have been taken from me, and if its permanent im looking at a long life of missery and depression thinking i ruined my life over ONE night of bad drugs. it just blows my mind meth users go on binges for years and i take one bad drug and get fucked like this. i just want my life back and will do anything, ive already learned my lesson the hard away and just hope to god its not forever, im a good person and got fucked over for a couple bucks. if u do reply plz check back again cuz i WILL reply back and love to discuss it further.

if ANYONE could reach out, reply even pm me it would mean the world. thanks, god bless and be safe.
 
Last edited:

Mamoot

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
8
Hey Bluebull (post#1498)....In that study you need to factor in the extrapolation factors to get an estimated human dose. This article explains it under: "At what level does MDMA become toxic in humans?"

http://ecstasy.org/info/leon.html

At the end of the article with extrapolation he says:

"These data, when extrapolated, suggest that at total doses of 10 mg/kg or above, taken within a few days, axonal degeneration could be expected in humans."


Hey everybody, I'm going through very similar issues and have used mdma at higher than normal recreational doses (~0.5g spread throughout a night) combined with alcohol several times. I even binged on .5g and waited couple days and ate another .5g two times...it was during winter and I was couch locked so I know I didn't overheat. Never had a LTC I think? I've just been messed up for so long it feels like I've been in a LTC these past few years from various use of drugs and misfortunate life events. I also used to use opioids and was on Suboxone for 5 years but quit all opioids over two years ago....having a long history of opioid use definitely doesn't help.

Can't say that my dp/dr came from mdma though; it may of come from a rough dmt trip or a panic attack I had from weed and cocaine shortly after the bad dmt trip...and/or it could of escalated with that LSD trip when I smoked weed and freaked out and ended swallowing a bar of xanax....point is ive never been the same from that one bad dmt trip. I smoked dmt about 50 times and most of the time traveled very well, but ever since that bad trip life hasn't been the same. I have since the bad trip smoked dmt again and have had good trips and bad trips. I haven't used dmt in over a year. I won't use it again until I heal. I'm done with mdma for a while. I would never go over 100mg in one night again and combine it with alcohol....and definitely load up on vitamins and antioxidants before and after. The last time I was reckless with mdma I had a bad comedown with extreme symptoms lasting a few days. I couldn't even write down the date and time the day after without extreme effort or properly sign my name when I went to a real estate closing with my father. I totally looked like a retard and I have a 140 IQ...or at least I used to.

My life is hard right now. Had to take time off the university because of the stress. My mom also died of lung cancer while I've been going through all this to make it worse. Ive been through alot and am working on getting back to school. I have 30 credits left in my biochemistry undergrad and have noticed the cognitive pitfalls of dp/dr. You don't really appreciate how slow you are until you try to endeavor in higher education. My only hope now is meditation, long distance running, lifting weights and the perfect nootropic stack...I may try yoga as well...as pmz is suggesting....I feel you about the music brother. And I still smoke weed sometimes. I can't smoke too much anymore.
 
Last edited:

Mamoot

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
8
I wanted to add, during that bad dmt trip, I was also extremely intoxicated on alcohol and may of taken (99% chance I did take) some low quality mdma or sass...I just remember it being very ineffective, which is why I can barely remember taking it....and after I came down on the molly or whatever it was, I ripped the dmt pipe and thought I crossed over to the other side or some other dimension...I basically thought I died and my heart stopped, but it didn't it just skipped a beat and continued pumping. Several seconds after I ran out of my bedroom after freaking out and started pacing back and forth in the upstairs of my house, except everything looked strange and I saw shadows everywhere, no fractals or cool geometric patterns, it was very ordinary but dark, shadowy, and surreal looking. I thought I was dead or was a ghost in some other dimension. My heart was beating very fast the entire time. It took me a week to realize that I didn't actually die. Up to a year after this bad trip, I questioned to myself if I did actually die, and that what if I stepped into a parallel universe during the dmt trip and what if none of this is real, and what is realty. So I lost my mind basically and my sense of self and I shattered my ego into a million pieces and am building a new me from scratch.

I used to get panic attacks, weird aches and pains all over my body...I even went to a cardiologist and got a stress echo-cardiogram to make sure my heart wasn't damaged.... and my heart is tip top still...I'm still too afraid to go to a neurologist, but I may soon.

I used to get mind blowing dp/dr but only when I smoked weed or had extreme anxiety. I can smoke small amounts of weed again. I would only get dp/dr and still occasionally do...when I'm extremely anxious. I may always have it and not realize it though. I don't even know what normal is anymore but I may be exaggerating. I've been suicidal but I don't want to die. I still have hope that I can get over this. I still want to get well, finish my degree, trip responsibly, travel, and just enjoy life again.

I know exactly what all of you are going through. I don't want to end up like Somedud (RIP)

Also, I never went to a mental institution or a psychiatrist. I basically toughed it out my self and never took psychiatric pharmaceuticals except benzos for emergencies. I always keep xanax nearby if I use lsd or shrooms. I actually have sworn off tripping for a while. I've just had a shitty set and setting since my mom died. I still can't believe she's dead. It's like this is all a bad dream.

The only drugs I take now are phenibut on occasions. I still occasionally smoke weed though. I'm thinking about trying Stablon soon for a short trial. My next nootropic stack may look something like this: Cerebrolysin, Stablon, Semax, and Selank, everything cycled appropriately. Hopefully, that combined with running and meditation can kick start some neurogenesis.
 
Last edited:

Deltronpedro

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
203
That definitely sounds like DP/DR to me because I was experiencing very similar issues when I was sick from my bout with a so-called LTC as well.

It would affect me the most whenever I would have to reach for something which was out of sight in order to grab it.

For example, I'd reach into a duffel bag to grab a toothbrush and it would take me forever to make the connection that what I was feeling was my toothbrush and not a pen or something.

And then there was the other end of the "spectrum" (for lack of a better term) where, for example, I could very clearly see a plate in front of me which I was supposed to grab in order to put my dinner on it. And despite the fact that there was no line of sight issues, picking up the plate would trigger a sort of fleeting limbo effect where I would observe that it all felt as if I was in a dream, or that it wasn't me who was grabbing the plate, and that I was merely along for the ride, which was very unsettling to say the least.

I could list countless more examples, but hopefully what I've already written will suffice.

To sum it up, this is how I was affected by DP/DR for the most part. There were some oddities here and there, but they were too far and few in between to recall in detail off the top of my head.

I know all too well from extensive practical or first-hand experience that living with DP/DR can REALLY get to those of us which are affected by it, but I also know from trial and error that there are steps which can be taken which may reduce the severity, and I don't necessarily mean by resorting to medication, but I digress.

Easier said than done for sure, but try to hang in there. With a treatment plan tailored to suit your genetic makeup (or the way you happen to be 'wired'), any DP/DR is only temporary.
Thanks ro :)
Milders the anxiety aobut that one. An other big one here is me strange looking in the mirror. Dunno. Fucks me up!
But well, will go away, too, right? ;)
Have a good one
 

BlueBull

Moderator: M&ED
Staff member
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Messages
2,774
Hey Bluebull (post#1498)....In that study you need to factor in the extrapolation factors to get an estimated human dose. This article explains it under: "At what level does MDMA become toxic in humans?"

http://ecstasy.org/info/leon.html

At the end of the article with extrapolation he says:

"These data, when extrapolated, suggest that at total doses of 10 mg/kg or above, taken within a few days, axonal degeneration could be expected in humans."
Hey Mamoot,

Note that the study I linked disagrees with this (it is explained in a lot more detail in the article):
MDMA is a substrate for monoamine transporters, and stimulated release of 5-HT, NE, and DA mediates effects of the drug. MDMA produces neurochemical, endocrine, and behavioral actions in rats and humans at equivalent doses (e.g., 1–2 mg/kg), suggesting that there is no reason to adjust doses between these species.
Furthermore the article you linked is from 1998, the other study is a bit more recent (2005). Besides, 10mg/kg is still 700mg for a human being, and that dose needs to be repeated for several days before neurotoxicity is noticed according to the article you linked. I'm not saying there is 100% consensus on this, just pointing out that at normal to high doses like HiManImDan mentioned, repeated too frequently but not daily it is very unlikely that brain damage could occur. Thanks for the article, going to read it completely when I have some time as I didn't read that one before. Skimmed over it for this reply
I'm sorry about your mom by the way, that is really sad to hear :( It sucks having to see her suffer like that. Take care of yourself man, I wish you all the best
 
Last edited:

thejibberman

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
196
Anyone else has 24/7 muscle twitching, rippling and vibrating all over? This along with constant muscle pains especially in the top of my arms is what is prolonging my recovery - it gets worse when I get anxious but it doesn't go away when I'm not anxious. I just generally feel uncomfortable all the time due to some combination of both pain and twitching. I ask because I'm trying to figure out what is anxiety and what isn't.
That's anxiety. Magnesium would help, I took it for the twitching especially, all the twitching has gone for me though, lasted a good 4 months. Don't stress about it, seriously it will just bring on the twitches again (the worst being the eyelid and tongue twitch).
 

derok

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2012
Messages
177
Anyone else has 24/7 muscle twitching, rippling and vibrating all over? This along with constant muscle pains especially in the top of my arms is what is prolonging my recovery - it gets worse when I get anxious but it doesn't go away when I'm not anxious. I just generally feel uncomfortable all the time due to some combination of both pain and twitching. I ask because I'm trying to figure out what is anxiety and what isn't.

An interesting point I think everyone here should consider:- I'm being treated for diagnosed vitamin B12 deficiency. Vitamin B12 deficiency causes multiple sclerosis symptoms, as it advances the coating on nerves get damaged. My deficiency was only mild but I dread to think of how that complicated the picture with regards to heavy MDMA use. I think it's likely my LTC wouldn't have happened had I have been perfectly healthy. Remarkably after my first B12 shot I woke up feeling like myself again with no derealization.

I don't want to provoke anyones health anxiety but don't let this LTC idea be a catch all. Go to your doctor, ask for blood tests and get copies of the results to scrutinise for yourself.
WOW! infact this is a big clue bro! thanks for bring this here. Actually my symptoms reseach about everyone here seems to me like a mirror people with diagnosed fibromyalgia , MS, or fatigue problem that are related.

Because this also seems to be the problem of a minority of the users, maybe the stress thing is really in physiological language a metabolic problem. some of us are not allowed (by our genes) to use some enzymes and vitamins from the food such as cyanocobalamin (b12) or folic acid, that infact are VERY important in the recovery proces after any drug or food.

i have to ask you tpchan what kind of b12 are you getting by IV , ¿methylcobalamin or cyanocobalamin?
 

Mamoot

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
8
Hey Mamoot,

Note that the study I linked disagrees with this (it is explained in a lot more detail in the article):

Furthermore the article you linked is from 1998, the other study is a bit more recent (2005). Besides, 10mg/kg is still 700mg for a human being, and that dose needs to be repeated for several days before neurotoxicity is noticed according to the article you linked. I'm not saying there is 100% consensus on this, just pointing out that at normal to high doses like HiManImDan mentioned, repeated too frequently but not daily it is very unlikely that brain damage could occur. Thanks for the article, going to read it completely when I have some time as I didn't read that one before. Skimmed over it for this reply
I'm sorry about your mom by the way, that is really sad to hear :( It sucks having to see her suffer like that. Take care of yourself man, I wish you all the best
Thank you bluebull for the reply and kind words. I have stumbled on dozens of articles these past few weeks. I've known about neurotoxicity pretty much since I started using mdma and ecstasy, but I made the assumption that you need to eat a gram of pure shards everyday for 3-4 days to get damage, but I recently starting to worry that much lesser doses can cause damage since I started reading more about the topic. Is this damage permanent, I doubt it...long lasting definitely. I think I fried my amygdala from some form of psychedelic PTSD. I've never had a bad trip on MDMA. I've had transient panic attacks coming up on mdma...this was after my bad dmt trip though, but I never freaked out. I think freaking out on any drug can cause this drug induced PTSD that were seeing here. Neurotoxicity doesn't explain/cause the dp/dr symptoms and the pure confusion and coginitive sluggishness/brain fog that we commonly experience...I think the neurotoxicity if there is some just makes it a little worse...like a cherry on top of the shit double fudge sunday.
 

Tpchan85

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Messages
85
WOW! infact this is a big clue bro! thanks for bring this here. Actually my symptoms reseach about everyone here seems to me like a mirror people with diagnosed fibromyalgia , MS, or fatigue problem that are related.

Because this also seems to be the problem of a minority of the users, maybe the stress thing is really in physiological language a metabolic problem. some of us are not allowed (by our genes) to use some enzymes and vitamins from the food such as cyanocobalamin (b12) or folic acid, that infact are VERY important in the recovery proces after any drug or food.

i have to ask you tpchan what kind of b12 are you getting by IV , ¿methylcobalamin or cyanocobalamin?
My doctor gave me basically the minimum dose of cyanocobalamin shots but I'm taking methylcobalamin 5000mcg sublinguals everyday that seem to help most. I was also vitamin D and folate deficient. For me the problem was celiac disease, had suffered with bowel issues for a long time that I was told were benign but I had no idea I was malnutritioned already when I got involved with drugs. Situation has got very muddled now for me but it was certainly triggered by MDMA.
 

PJ2

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
152
This thread seems pretty dead, but I'll throw my two cents in the pot. Yes, head pressure is a very common symptom of a LTC. I had it bad for a good 6 months and it's the one symptom that will still pop up occasionally at 8 months although I've largely recovered. My personal opinion is that it is a byproduct of the brain trying to heal itself.

You break a bone and you feel pain and pressure from the blood supply going to the injury until it dissipates and heals completely. I think the head pressure/headache is the same sort of deal only the brain takes a longer time to heal, but it will heal. Give it time!

I'm assuming that since this is an older thread and you've stopped posting that you have probably already done so.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top