copium7777
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2020
- Messages
- 411
I use opioids both for pain and recreationally/mood uplift. but unless you're doing h, theyre damn expensive. also, the development of tolerance to the analgesic and euphoric effects happens faster than the devleopment of tolerance to side effects such as respiratory depression and constipation.
I take oxy either one or two days a week and am trying to keep my dose steady. I had read a little on ultra low dose naltrexone and low dose naltrexone for attenuating opioid tolerance and side effects, and i was prescribed it for pain/inflammation anyway, so I have decided to try and use it to help keep my tolerance reasonable. It seems very promising but I don't have any idea if there's a bunch of solid evidence on the dose range or schedule needed to totally reset tolerance.
[This](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20398374) study shows ultra low dose naltrexone attenuating morphine tolerance in rats. [This one] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5469510/ shows that adding uldn to oxycodone attenuates hyperalgesia that can occur in long term opioid use for chronic pain. There was a drug in development, oxytrex, that was a combination of oxy and ultra low dose naltrexone, to help attenuate side effects/tolerance to oxy, idk why it never came to market.
ULDN is a way lower dose range than LDN. It seems like LDN is not used in these studies bc it is more likely to either block some of the analgesia, or precipitate withdrawals, which could be nightmarish especially in chronic users. But since im not dependent on opioids, im more comfortable getting near that boundary, and it seems like the higher dose range of LDN might be more helpful in actually reversing tolerance, whereas uLDN only slightly attenuates it. I also read a now-deleted post from r/opiates in which someone said LDN, not uLDN, totally keeps them from gaining tolerance, but they had to start the LDN before the opioids and take it daily.
Also kratom users sometimes take stem and vein kratom, which has more of the opioid antagonists and less agonists, to reset their tolerance, and it seems to work well.
I had an experience with too high a dose of LDN (I believe it was 1.5 mg) taken too soon after my opioid dose, seemed to cause dysphoria and negative symptoms. But when taken after the opioid effects totally wear off, it has few side effects, so maybe I should be dosing higher? My dose is usually like .5 mg a day.
The theory is that it upregulates opioid receptor density in response to a partial blockade. this is part of my theory of why LDN works for some chronic pain patients, on its own, that it increases opioid recceptor density so ones sensitivity to ones own endorphins is way higher. From personal experience/anecdote in the past i felt like it took about five days of 1 to 1.5 mg doses of LDN before i was experiencing "getting extremely high off my own endorphins". I did experience some episodes of agitation, insomnia, and hypertension from the LDN, but I don't think thats normal, and the hypertension wasn't too bad.
​
So all in all, it seems like there are a few studies on uLDN for this purpose, promising but not a ton of evidence, a bunch of anecdotes, and very few studies on LDN for resetting tolerance (although there are studies on its use as an antiinflammatory and for chronic pain, like [this one] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962576/ , from which we might infer it could help with tolerance?)
​
This was a little bit rambling but I guess I'd be interested in any form of evidence on this topic, anecdotal or published, since the existing evidence is so scant. Has anyone here had experience with uldn or LDN for tolerance? Has anyone found good posts on reddit or forums about it? or good studies?
​
despite chipping fairly judiciously I seem to have built up some level of tolerance, maybe bc w high doses you can have rapid tachyphylaxis without even taking it for very long. One other thing I was thinking of is using nmda antagonists as well, to help prevent too much tolerance buildup.
I take oxy either one or two days a week and am trying to keep my dose steady. I had read a little on ultra low dose naltrexone and low dose naltrexone for attenuating opioid tolerance and side effects, and i was prescribed it for pain/inflammation anyway, so I have decided to try and use it to help keep my tolerance reasonable. It seems very promising but I don't have any idea if there's a bunch of solid evidence on the dose range or schedule needed to totally reset tolerance.
[This](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20398374) study shows ultra low dose naltrexone attenuating morphine tolerance in rats. [This one] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5469510/ shows that adding uldn to oxycodone attenuates hyperalgesia that can occur in long term opioid use for chronic pain. There was a drug in development, oxytrex, that was a combination of oxy and ultra low dose naltrexone, to help attenuate side effects/tolerance to oxy, idk why it never came to market.
ULDN is a way lower dose range than LDN. It seems like LDN is not used in these studies bc it is more likely to either block some of the analgesia, or precipitate withdrawals, which could be nightmarish especially in chronic users. But since im not dependent on opioids, im more comfortable getting near that boundary, and it seems like the higher dose range of LDN might be more helpful in actually reversing tolerance, whereas uLDN only slightly attenuates it. I also read a now-deleted post from r/opiates in which someone said LDN, not uLDN, totally keeps them from gaining tolerance, but they had to start the LDN before the opioids and take it daily.
Also kratom users sometimes take stem and vein kratom, which has more of the opioid antagonists and less agonists, to reset their tolerance, and it seems to work well.
I had an experience with too high a dose of LDN (I believe it was 1.5 mg) taken too soon after my opioid dose, seemed to cause dysphoria and negative symptoms. But when taken after the opioid effects totally wear off, it has few side effects, so maybe I should be dosing higher? My dose is usually like .5 mg a day.
The theory is that it upregulates opioid receptor density in response to a partial blockade. this is part of my theory of why LDN works for some chronic pain patients, on its own, that it increases opioid recceptor density so ones sensitivity to ones own endorphins is way higher. From personal experience/anecdote in the past i felt like it took about five days of 1 to 1.5 mg doses of LDN before i was experiencing "getting extremely high off my own endorphins". I did experience some episodes of agitation, insomnia, and hypertension from the LDN, but I don't think thats normal, and the hypertension wasn't too bad.
​
So all in all, it seems like there are a few studies on uLDN for this purpose, promising but not a ton of evidence, a bunch of anecdotes, and very few studies on LDN for resetting tolerance (although there are studies on its use as an antiinflammatory and for chronic pain, like [this one] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962576/ , from which we might infer it could help with tolerance?)
​
This was a little bit rambling but I guess I'd be interested in any form of evidence on this topic, anecdotal or published, since the existing evidence is so scant. Has anyone here had experience with uldn or LDN for tolerance? Has anyone found good posts on reddit or forums about it? or good studies?
​
despite chipping fairly judiciously I seem to have built up some level of tolerance, maybe bc w high doses you can have rapid tachyphylaxis without even taking it for very long. One other thing I was thinking of is using nmda antagonists as well, to help prevent too much tolerance buildup.
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