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Bupe IV Buprenorphine/Antihistamine FAQ v. Back From The Dead

sixpartseven

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IV Buprenorphine/Antihistamine FAQ

The last thread was lost (not really "lost" - I accidentally deleted it after making a huge mess of it...it's a long story) but with a little help from my co-Mods, a copy was found using Google and I have reposted it.

For more buprenorphine and suboxone information: Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ by Phrozen

Why would anyone IV antihistamines with buprenorphine?

Most people who use buprenorphine are on it in a maintenence program. Considering that, there is a good chance that their tolerance is pretty high. For opiate naive users, buprenorphine does provide a high although some consider it not to be a typical high. However, users dont get those effects. IVing buprenorphine and antihistamines together can provide a tolerant user with a rush and a high. Some may say its not comparable to other opiates such as heroin or oxycodone, but to someone who doesnt get to experience a high every now and then without having to resort to other opiates, now has the ability to do so. edit thanks to phrozen

Anyone considering doing this should reconsider. In the end, its not worth it, but this is for those who insist on trying it.

Which antihistamine containing products are best for me to use?

This will depend on what country you are in. In the United States, the only usable antihistamine that can be found over the counter is Diphenhydramine. Diphenhydramine comes in a variety of products, but there are really only two viable options for IV use. Bendryl capsules (not the pink tablets) are one and Sleepinal capsules are another. Its suggested to use Sleepinal brand because it has less fillers in it (Benadryl contains gelatin and other nasty fillers) and because it contains 50mg diphenhydramine compared to Benadryls 25mg diphenhydramine.


jasoncrest said:
Antihistamines that are worth shooting (with an opiate):
-Hydroxyzine
-Diphenhydramine
-Cyclizine
-Promethazine
-Tripelennamine

From my experience, Meclizine, Buclizine, Chlorphenamine/chlorpheniramine, Dexchlorpheniramine, Brompheniramine, Doxylamine, Carbinoxamine, Cyproheptadine, Cetirizine, Loratadine, etc...
are all WORTHLESS to use.

If you're in the US, the only interesting OTC antihistamine is Diphenhydramine.
The best brands for shooting are:
-Sleepinal 50mg (ONLY the 50mg ones, the Sleepinal 25mg SUCK)
-Sominex 25mg (ONLY the 25mg ones, the 50mg Sominex SUCK)
The above includes antihistamines available outside of the USA thanks to JasonCrest.

A warning about IV Promethazine (thanks to splenda)

FDA is requiring that promethazine hydrochloride injection products carry a boxed warning to communicate more strongly about the danger of giving the drug intravenously. The warning states that intra-arterial and subcutaneous administration of promethazine are contraindicated.

Promethazine is used as an antihistamine, a sedative and an antiemetic. Giving promethazine intravenously can result in severe tissue injury, including gangrene, which may require amputation. Because of this risk, the preferred route of administration is deep intramuscular injection.

If IV administration of promethazine is required, a maximum concentration of 25 mg/mL should be administered at a maximum rate of 25 mg/minute, through the tubing of an infusion set known to be functioning properly. The 50 mg/mL concentration should be used only for deep intramuscular injection.

Healthcare professionals should be alert to signs and symptoms of potential tissue injury, such as burning or pain at the administration site, phlebitis, swelling, and blistering. They should stop giving the drug immediately if a patient complains of pain. They should also tell patients receiving IV promethazine that side effects may occur immediately or develop hours to days after administration of the drug.
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/psn/transcript.cfm?show=93#1

Is this even safe to do?

Its not safer than the use of any other pills via IV administration. There are added risks if you are using Suboxone brand buprenorphine because of the coloring and flavoring used in the pills. Its suggested to not do this at all if you only have access to Suboxone, but in the end, that decision will be up to you. When shooting any pill, you always have the increased risk of infections if you miss the shot. Cases of necrotizing fasciitis, gangrene, and pulmonary granulomas, which is probably one of the biggest causes of death when shooting pills, have been reported due to missed shots of Suboxone and shots accidently injected into an artery.
edit thanks to phrozen

So Im trying to make a solution with my antihistamines but Im having trouble getting it dissolve in the water?

Due to a lot of fillers placed inside the capsules, you will have a lot of undissolved powders in your solution. The best way to get maximum amount of product out and not lose any water is to empty the contents of the capsule into 1ml of water. Stir it up a little bit, then allow it to sit for 10 minutes. After 10 minutes, you will see two layers in the spoon or cup you are preparing it in. Place your filter into the solution, trying to keep it from touching the bottom layer of powder (the powder tends to become gel-like and clog the bottom of the filter.) Draw up as much solution as possible. Once you’ve gotten most of the water out, there will still be some water in the undissolved powder. Move a fresh filter around in the powder, allowing it to draw in as much water as possible, then try and draw that water out of the filter with your syringe. You will lose some water. Its a fact of life in this situation. Thats why I say use 1ml. Ive been able to get .9ml back, but sometimes it isnt that easy.

How much water should I use when preparing antihistamines?

You can use as much or as little water as you wish. Diphenhydramine is freely soluble in water and Buprenorphine will have no problem going in to solution either. Chances are, you aren’t using so much Buprenorphine that some of it wont go in to solution. Id suggest using 1ml , but you can use up to 2ml. I say this because any less water is going to make it more difficult when trying to prepare the antihistamine.

Should I dissolve the bupe and antihistamines at the same time?

No. Its suggested to prepare them one at a time. The antihistamine should be done first, then crush the buprenorphine up in a cup or spoon, and use the solution of antihistamine to dissolve the buprenorphine. This will keep you from losing a lot of product due to clogged filters and the usual loss of water when preparing drugs for IV.

How much of what antihistamine should I use?

If you are using diphenhydramine and this is your first time ever using it IV, use no more than 30 – 35mg. Otherwise, 50mg is suggested, but no more than 150mg per day.

How much bupe should I use?

Use no more than you would if you were using it sublingually or intranasally so you don’t increase your tolerance too much. You can use more, but be smart when doing so. Remember that when using buprenorphine IV, negative side effects are more pronounced if you go above 8mg at once. You still may use more than 8mg, but take into consideration your tolerance.

For example:
  • If you use 2mg at once, or 2mg multiple times a day, don’t exceed 4mg – 6mg at once, or 4mg – 6mg multiple times a day.
  • If you use 8mg at once, or 8mg multiple times a day, don’t exceed 12mg – 16mg at once, or 12mg – 16mg multiple times a day.

Its suggested that if you are going to IV this multiple times a day, to first of all reconsider that idea. However, if you still choose to, try to do the most youll use in the first shot of the day.

For example:

I use about 8mg throughout an entire day. My first shot for the day will be 4mg. Throughout the day, I will do two more shots of 2mg each.
You also have to consider how much diphenhydramine you will be using. Since I do three shots a day, I can use 50mg per shot, totaling out to 150mg per day. If you plan on doing 4 or 5 shots a day, you need to take that into consideration, because if you use 50mg of diphenhydramine per shot, youll be using 200mg – 250mg per day. When you get that high in dosage, anticholinergic effects begin to take hold, causing delirium.

After preparing the antihistamine, how do I add the bupe to it?

As stated above, the best way to do this would be to prepare a solution of antihistamine only then in a separate spoon or cup, crush the buprenorphine up. Add the solution of antihistamine to it, stir, filter, and draw up.

My solution is still really cloudy, what does this mean?

Its suggested to use micron filters when preparing pills for IV. Some people don’t have access to micron filters, but coffee filters would be the next best thing. All you have to do is load an empty syringe with stacked pieces of the filter which have been cut to the diameter of the syringe. Then, you just squirt the liquid through the filters multiple times. Q-tip cotton will also work, but I suggest to not use them unless you absolutley have to. Cigarette filters should not be used. Due to all the other fillers in most antihistamines, you will end up with a cloudy solution after you first draw it up. It is highly suggested to filter this solution multiple times before adding the buprenorphine to it. Filter it until you have an almost clear solution. You wont be able to get it crystal clear, but get it as close as possible. ALWAYS USE A MICRON FILTER IF YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THEM. edit thanks to phrozen


Im using suboxone, and my solution is still really orange, what does this mean?

Suboxone is different than Subutex because it will leave you with an orange solution. It looks nasty, but there is a way to tell if you’ve gotten a good proportion of particulate out of solution. Even though its orange, you can still get it to a point where it will be clear. Youll be able to tell when its there by holding the needle up, numbers facing away from you, and if you can read the numbers on the opposite side, then that’s a good way to tell if you’ve gotten most of the particulate out. Remember, this is not a fool proof way to tell if it doesn’t have particulate matter in it. Its just a way to gauge how well its been filtered. The same suggestions for filtering the diphenhydramine apply here also. ALWAYS USE A MICRON FILTER IF YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THEM. edit thanks to phrozen

So my solution is ready to be injected, are there any extra precautions I should take?

Injecting this solution is more dangerous than injecting a drug like heroin or cocaine. What can come from a missed shot could be disastrous. Be sure you wont be distracted and that you can take your time when injecting so that you don’t miss.

When I injected the solution, it burned really bad. Does this mean I missed?

No. Antihistamines burn when injected. You can use this to your advantage.

I think I may have shot into an artery, how can I know for sure?

This is how you can use the burn from antihistamines to your advantage. Veins flow up the arm, towards your heart, while arteries carry blood towards your hands. If you feel the burn moving up your arm, towards your shoulder, you were in a vein. If you feel it move down your forearm towards your hand, you hit an artery. Also, if shot into an artery, it will be extremely painful. Your hand will begin to swell, and most times go numb.

Besides obvious health risk from IV drug usage, what extra health risks do I have to worry about when injecting these specific drugs?

Some fillers and binders in Subutex and Suboxone are known to be vesicants. Vesicants cause damage to the veins from the inside out. Arterial shots of Subutex and Suboxone have also been known to cause infections resulting in gangrene and ultimately amputation of the arms or hands. Missed shots carry the same risks as missed shots of any other pill, such as abscess and possibly gangrene resulting in amputation if not treated. If you feel you have missed a shot or shot into an artery, seek medical attention immediately.

Is the duration effected by using buprenorphine IV?

Yes. Due to different rates of absorption, the duration will be effected. Anecdotal reports suggest the duration is around 8 – 12 hours, compared to 18 – 24 with intranasal administration, and 24 – 36 with sublingual administration. Take this into consideration before going through with this. It is quite possible to run through a supply of buprenorphine before being able to get a refill due to over usage of the drug. If you are on maintenance and depend on your buprenorphine, please think extra hard before doing this. Make sure you will be able to ration your supply so you aren’t left without any way too early.

Is this a good way to use buprenorphine when speciffically trying to maintain a habit or is should this only be done when trying to get high?

If you are maintaining a habit, the best advice would be to use the drug as directed. There is nothing worse than running out of your drug before you are able to get a refill. If you feel you are at a point in your maintenance that you can afford to spare a pill or two to get high every once in a while, then this is exactly what combining antihistamines and buprenorphine is good for.
If you aren’t opiate dependent, please consider your tolerance before trying to IV these drugs. Buprenorphine is a very potent drug and could cause an opiate naïve user to overdose. Also consider how long ago you have last used a full agonist such as heroin or oxycodone before using IV buprenorphine. If you are opiate dependent but not on maintenance, IVing buprenorphine within 36 hours of your last dose of the full agonist will cause precipitated withdrawals.

Can antihistamines be IVed with other opiates?

Absolutely. Any opiate that can be IVed on its own can be IVed with antihistamines added to it with great results. The same suggestion applies still: Do not exceed 150mg in a day
 
Last edited:

splenda

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Note that it isn't a good idea at all to IV promethazine because even the IV pharmaceutical-grade solutions of promethazine have been reported to cause necrosis/tissue damage/gangrene/etc..

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/psn/transcript.cfm?show=93#1

FDA is requiring that promethazine hydrochloride injection products carry a boxed warning to communicate more strongly about the danger of giving the drug intravenously. The warning states that intra-arterial and subcutaneous administration of promethazine are contraindicated.

Promethazine is used as an antihistamine, a sedative and an antiemetic. Giving promethazine intravenously can result in severe tissue injury, including gangrene, which may require amputation. Because of this risk, the preferred route of administration is deep intramuscular injection.

If IV administration of promethazine is required, a maximum concentration of 25 mg/mL should be administered at a maximum rate of 25 mg/minute, through the tubing of an infusion set known to be functioning properly. The 50 mg/mL concentration should be used only for deep intramuscular injection.

Healthcare professionals should be alert to signs and symptoms of potential tissue injury, such as burning or pain at the administration site, phlebitis, swelling, and blistering. They should stop giving the drug immediately if a patient complains of pain. They should also tell patients receiving IV promethazine that side effects may occur immediately or develop hours to days after administration of the drug.
 

sixpartseven

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Thank you for that. That's the type of information I like to see posted in threads like this.

I will update the main post to include what you have posted.
 

outofveinssadface

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question: i am well experienced with diphenhydramine injections. i found my tolerance went up extremely fast and now find that i need 3200mg of diphenhydramine to get the same effect that 200mg gave me a month ago.

if i were to obtain another of the types you mention were worth iving:

-Hydroxyzine
-Cyclizine
-Promethazine
-Tripelennamine

would i be able to start out at 50mg and not have to deal with the tolerance issue? or are all antihistamines 'on the same cooldown' as far as tolerance goes.

also, has anyone had any experience with the antihistamines mentioned above compared to diphenhydramine ?
 

Captain.Heroin

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I have never had such a large tolerance to antihistamines, and I suspect that they will all be cross tolerant to one degree or another. Tolerance will probably be inevitable with all of them.

Good luck!
 

sixpartseven

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Yeah, most likely they will be cross tolerant.

Your real problem here is going to be acquiring most of those antihistamines if you're in America. That list was provided by jasoncrest who, if I recall correctly, lives in France. That list was intended for people outside the USA who have over the counter access to other antihistamines besides diphenhydramine. In the US, all you'll be able to find is diphenhydramine and meclazine when purchasing OTC antihistamines that can be IVed.
 

SmokeTrails

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yeah im just trying to save this in my post history so its easier for me to find if it doesnt stay at the top. im thinking about geting on bupe and need to read this whole thread, but i dont have time right now
 

sixpartseven

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lol oh. Well, instead of doing that, you know you can click THREAD TOOLS on the top right of the first post, and then click SUBSCRIBE TO THREAD, right?
 

DeLee

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I shoot atleast 1 bupe+25mg Promethazine / day.
Lately I can feel the solution go up in my arm through the vein and it burns pretty bad.
One time the tourniquet were to hard/didn't come off when i did the shot of ~2mg bupe + 25mg-37,5mg (1½ tabs) OF Promethazine and it burned pretty bad.
The next day that same arm was x2 size, red and it hurt to evenbend it.. got better though, almost gone now.

And nowadays my easiest veins are in my feet I don't whant x2 tab solution so far away from the heart / lower pressures..
 

Captain.Heroin

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I shoot atleast 1 bupe+25mg Promethazine / day.
Lately I can feel the solution go up in my arm through the vein and it burns pretty bad.
One time the tourniquet were to hard/didn't come off when i did the shot of ~2mg bupe + 25mg-37,5mg (1½ tabs) OF Promethazine and it burned pretty bad.
The next day that same arm was x2 size, red and it hurt to evenbend it.. got better though, almost gone now.

And nowadays my easiest veins are in my feet I don't whant x2 tab solution so far away from the heart / lower pressures..
Yeah, I haven't IV'd promethazine, but I wouldn't ever try it. Even when using 3 to 5 mg of hydroxyzine IV, it can burn a lot if you miss (but that rarely happens for me), and sometimes will burn even if you don't miss, sometimes not. Kind of a weird occurence, but it's more likely to happen when you're using more hydroxyzine in a shot.

Additionally, I suspect that using too much hydroxyzine in a shot without adjusting the pH to be more neutral may be a bad idea, so I haven't been using hydroxyzine recently.
 

Captain.Heroin

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yeah im just trying to save this in my post history so its easier for me to find if it doesnt stay at the top. im thinking about geting on bupe and need to read this whole thread, but i dont have time right now
Using Firefox...
ctrl + D -> to bookmark this page
 

sixpartseven

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No combination of bupe and ________________ (insert antihistamine) is going to be comparable to a shot of heroin. The point is that it provides something similar to that typical opioid feel you are used to, but no, it won't feel anything near like a shot of heroin.
 

homeydontplaythat

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ive tried the benadryl bupe combo and it actually does provide something reminiscent of a rush. however i end up falling asleep for an hour in the middle of the day. not really worth it. if i had little or no tolerance to bupe i think this combo would be good though. if i ever start shooting H again, WHICH I WILL NOT...added a cap of diphen to some weak shit would be a good idea. i think adding it to already good dope is kinda retarded. hmmm, actually i take that back. a lot of times i live for the nod with IV H, most do. adding an antihist really does give you a proper nod off. so anyone that misses getting a hit and falling to the ground, use some benadryl. god, i am glad i do not use heroin anymore. my life is so much fucking better.....seriously.
 

outofveinssadface

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the rush from shooting diphenydrine (however you spell it) i find to be extremely rewarding.

it always burns, but that has become part of the enjoyment to me. i can feel the shot enter my veins, travel up my arm, then hit my heart. i then experience an immense rush (almost like i can feel it travel across my skin, not an internal rush) followed by a weird feeling of warmth in my anus and a lower feeling of warmth (but still noticable in my body)

it lasts about 5 minutes - its followed by dry mouth, blurred vision, and other things, but i still feel relaxed for 30 min - 2 hours after a shot.

the problem is that it takes large doses to achieve this - i began noticing the big rush at 8 x 50mg of dip.

also, when you take this much the tolerance seems to increase exponentially.

SO BASICALLY DONT FUCKING DO IT BECAUSE YOULL BE CHASING THE BIG RUSH FOREVER!

oh, and i have never felt a shot of heroin comparable to the rush i get off dip. they are different rushs - the only thing similar being the initial feeling of contentment, release, happiness for the first 5 seconds post-shot.
 

outofveinssadface

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i want to note that FOR ME shooting dip. in no way causes me to get tired or drowsy.

i have found it actually has the opposite effect - i believe its like my body doesnt want to turn off because its the first time its felt good all day (usually i do my shots at the end of a day).
 

outofveinssadface

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Are you saying you prefer the rush of diphenhydramine over the heroin rush?

You're a cheap date.
resorting to name calling because youve decided not to believe my story is a characteristic of someone who probably wouldnt get a date anyway.

to be honest: im surprised i prefer it also, but ive found i do.

in any case, i guess the question that needs to be answered is, is injecting 64 sleepinal pills worse then using heroin?

__________________

i feel this is also important to add:

it is YOUR VERY THREAD, the one above, that gave me the idea to inject sleepinal. you lay it out for people step by step! you tell them the best pills to inject!!! i found it one day while trying to find methods of potentiating suboxone, months ago

and now youre going to close my thread after i use your method and develop a habit you dont believe? how ludacris

i WISH i hadnt found out about this thread, and i assure you, this is THE ONLY THREAD (and i would believe the only webpage too) on the interwebz that talks about injecting sleepinal and suboxone.

so you post this thread, you write this faq, you put it out there for all to see (and again, ARE THE ONLY ONE putting it out there) and now your closing threads and saying you care about people and want them to go to rehab? get the fuck out of here
 
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sixpartseven

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If your thread is closed, don't bring it into another thread.

I didn't call you a name? I said "You're a cheap date" which means "You're easily pleased." I said that BEFORE I knew you were shooting 3200mg, so actually, I was wrong about you being cheap. You spend more money on Sleepinal a day than most people do heroin.

And yeah, in your case, I would say shooting heroing IS better than shooting Sleepinal. The amount of talc you're shooting is going to seriously damage your lungs/kill you.

Hey, I didn't force a gun to your head and say "Do this!" and nowhere in this thread did I say to shoot 3200mg. In fact, I said to NEVER go above 150mg. What you do is your choice. Just because you read it on the internet (with warnings plastered throughout it saying you shouldn't even be doing it) doesn't mean you should run out and do it.

I closed your thread because there is no advice we can offer you. If we promote what you're doing, that's going AGAINST harm reduction. All we can tell you is to stop what you're doing before you ruin yourself and seek help. That's it. Shooting 50mg of diphenhydramine with your Suboxone every once in a while - what this thread is talking about - with proper filtering is not as bad as what you're doing, which is why we can offer HR advice about that and NOT about what you're doing.

So relax. You haven't been kicked off the site, but if you continue to be disruptive and derail threads, you will be kicked off the site.
 

outofveinssadface

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i dont even know where to start

If your thread is closed, don't bring it into another thread.
I closed your thread because there is no advice we can offer you. If we promote what you're doing, that's going AGAINST harm reduction. All we can tell you is to stop what you're doing before you ruin yourself and seek help. That's it.
since the theme of your posts are hypocritical and ignore basic logic, i guess ill start with those lovely quotes, a few lines apart. do i need to explain how dumb they sound together? i hope not.

if you had maybe put one after the other, it would be forgivable (somewhat). but instead they were a few lines apart, and in the opposite order any logical person would put them in.

I didn't call you a name? I said "You're a cheap date" which means "You're easily pleased." I said that BEFORE I knew you were shooting 3200mg, so actually, I was wrong about you being cheap. You spend more money on Sleepinal a day than most people do heroin.
another argument that goes against logic. you did call me a name, you called me a cheap date. in point of fact, you didnt write 'your easily pleased', you wrote 'youre a cheap date'. you chose to write it because for some reason youre angry im here and wanted to poke me, or belittle me, or make yourself feel better - all characteristics and similar reasons people call people 'names'.

if i say to you, youre dumber then a cardboard box, can i translate that into "i just meant you were uneducated." no, i cant, because the connotations are entirely different. another example would be if i said "you eat like a pig". am i saying "you should eat slower and let your food digest.". again, NO, i am not, im choosing words to impart a meaning, and the meaning is to insult you. you wanted to insult me, you were angry - so you called me a cheap date.

Hey, I didn't force a gun to your head and say "Do this!" and nowhere in this thread did I say to shoot 3200mg. In fact, I said to NEVER go above 150mg. What you do is your choice. Just because you read it on the internet (with warnings plastered throughout it saying you shouldn't even be doing it) doesn't mean you should run out and do it.
here we have a method of reasoning used by a great number of addicts known as making things "black or white". did i say you held a gun to my head? no, i didnt. did i say you forced me to do it? no, i didnt. did i say you told me to inject 3200mg of it? no, i didnt.

what i said, which follows logic, is that i could not believe that the same forum that taught me how to do something, the same person would then prevent me from talking further about it by closing my thread. i mean jesus, this is another one i wont even bother to explain - isnt it just common sense?

as an example, this follows the same reasoning as when they arrest drug dealers and charge them with homicides. did the drug dealer tell the person to inject all ten bags of heroin that killed him? no, he didnt. he sold him 10 bags - hell, he might have even told him to be careful and do one at a time. is it logical that he is liable for the death? yes, it is. you may not believe in it, but the logic is there.

so, again - did you put a gun to my head? no. you warned people, you put disclaimers and limits, but you did this on a forum read by addicts and alcoholics. isnt it common knowledge that addicts and alcoholics take things to the extreme? isnt it common knowledge that the way addiction works, one will always lead to two, to four, to eight, to sixteen? i would hope so.

to throw it back at you, i would say the more logical statement is how the hell can you be so surprised at this? you wrote out a clear method for addicts to get high using an easily available over the counter medication and a semi-available maintenace drug. you wrote it out on a site for drug addicts. and now someone has a problem with it, and you close their thread can anyone argue it isnt ludacris?

So relax. You haven't been kicked off the site, but if you continue to be disruptive and derail threads, you will be kicked off the site.
i'll end with this. dont worry, you dont have to kick me off the site, because im done with it. i remember now theres a reason i dont post on forums - and this is it. this experience has put a sour taste in my mouth for this whole forum, and can anyone really blame me? good luck with everything, and i hope someday you will look at things using logic and not with the bullheaded attitude that you currently enjoy.

-------------

i will be surprised if you dont delete this thread, or this post, and label it 'disruptive', or 'angry'. in all likliehood you were probably embarassed just reading it. but hey, i guess i cant be right about everything? maybe youll let it stay.
 
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