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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

is dealing drugs really that dangerous

On another note, there is nothing "cool" or glamarous about drug dealing...it's a dirty game with dirty ppl.....But as most ppl don't know how to supply themselves or concoct their own complex amphetamines, there will always be dealers, and as you, the consumer of this market, should at least have dealers who know what the fuck they are doing....

Peace Out

Dirty Deed
 
In New Zealand, ecstasy isn't as widely accepted as it overseas.
There are no dealers at clubs. The only way you can buy pills is by getting to know a dealer or knowing someone who does. As a result i think there are a lot less dodgy deals done. Generally your customers are your friends and visa versa. This decreases the chance of being busted because to come off like a D.
 
I'm sure most people - in theory - would LOVE to be drug dealers because the money is really good etc. However in practice, it has waaaaaaaaaay more 'cons' than 'pros'. There is most likely going to be *at least* one time in your drug dealing career when you let your guard down or get a little bit sloppy and that may be the biggest mistake ever. also, once people get the taste for money, many of them become more and more greedy which increases the likelihood of them getting sloppy. on top of that, once too many people know you, there's no special "memory erasing machine" like there is in Men in Black which will allow people to forget who you are, your number etc. and it's not like you can just pack up and leave. in my opinion, as good as drug dealing seems, unless it is absolutely neccesary to make a quick buck, it's not worth the stress, effort and risk.
 
excuse me but....

I would like to correct a recurring misconcetption in this thread, being that the police's plan is to catch small time dealer who will lead them to big time dealers.

Having previously been in the hot seat myself, let me tell you a few things about the way police think. See despite what you might like to think, the majority of them arent stupid. Someone who gets done with less than 50 on him probably bough them off a mate, and as such will be unlikely or at the least very unwilling to cooperate when it comes to providing information on the source. 'i bought them off a guy in the car park' is as good a reason as they get 90% of the time.

People are always complaining about how police target small time users and not the big dealers. Well theres a reason for that. Police figured out a long time ago that the big players have alot of smarts and a lot of money and generally are quite difficult to catch. Small time dealers and end users however, have less resources and are much easier to put pressure on. The reason why police go to such lengths to prosecute small timers and why there are such harsh penatlies even for small amount is a simple matter of supply and demand. While there is demand, drugs will get into australia. The idea is that you can reduce the demand for drugs by discouraging end users and small timers with over the top penalties and scare tactics... if the demand abates then less drugs will get into the country, and the politicians can clame a moral victory by saying less drugs get in than did before... not because theyre busting dealers but because the big dealers arent bothering to import as much - remember if the supply way exceeds the demand then the prices will plumet and they will make alot less money at the end of the day.

So maybe it seems stupid to alot of you that they focus so much energy on targeting people like us, but when you see the big picture it makes more sense than wasting the same amount of money on trying to catch bigger fish and egtting no results
 
I was about to launch into a long recitation of what I'd seen at my regular club about the workings of club dealers and the various interactions with security and bar staff that keeps a functioning "system" in place but realised it probably wasn't useful to anyone.

In terms of danger to the regular club dealer it depends on a lot of things. Firstly, it's always dangerous, you sell to the wrong person, you do it in front of the wrong bouncer, whatever... you could be in handcuffs by the end of the night: that danger is always there. Dealers who go from club to club every weekend put themselves in more danger than a dealer who sticks to a regular haunt.

Once they're in with security and known, it's quite easy to stay and sell in the one place. At the same time, after a while they get to know the regulars and that makes it easier to spot undercovers. Another advantage of being a dealer at the same club every week is referrel business, because after a while, everyone knows your role, but at the same time... it leaves you more vulnerable to being 'picked out' by interested law enforcement.
 
Good points RR - there are detectives for investigating large drug smuggling/dealing operations. The guys who are most likely to bust you with a pocketful of pills or some points are the ones who are more likely to nail you for it on principle, because like, it's their job.

BigTrancer :)
 
originally posted by phase dancer
what do you think would happen if you gave a really *good* clean MDMA pill to a friend, only to find out later that person had a heart problem and died while exerting him or herself. This is not that uncommon and if MDMA was found in his body you can betcha questions would be asked.
WTF??
Sorry, but this is the type of unsubstaniated, flip, scare-mongering that I expect to see in the AUS media, not coming from a BL mod. For a start, heart-problems could be triggered by any number of amphetamine-like substances...associating such a scenario with clean MDMA only promotes the further demonisation of the substance.
And the frequency with which this happens is even more problematic...."not that uncommon"...I'd say that statistically you are more likely to die in a step-ladder accident. 8(
 
WTF??
Sorry, but this is the type of unsubstaniated, flip, scare-mongering that I expect to see in the AUS media, not coming from a BL mod

OK, fair enough. I was in fact speaking of someone I knew who recently died under these circumstances. In the period following, as could be expected, a great deal of blame was displayed by those who knew him and knew of the events preceding his death. I can't be more specific, other than to say it involved a person in his late fifties who had an underlying heart condition. The person took a single dose of MDMA, had sex and died. Simple as that. No it wasn't proven that the MDMA was the cause, but as it was in his blood it was the subject of an investigation which had far reaching and unexpected consequences.

My original point was; if you sell even a single pill/dose of any illegally produced drug to a person with an underlying condition it *could* cause his/her death. The consequences of that could be far greater than just getting busted with dealing. Not to mention those close to the deceased which may have a vendetta to sort with the person they see as being responsible.

Perhaps in the above scenario, meth could have caused the same result. Perhaps it was destined to happen anyway. But that doesn't remove the danger from dealing any non-quality controlled substance which raises blood pressure and heart rate, and alters other body functions. For me 30-50mg of MDMA causes a far greater rise in blood pressure than 30mg of non-pseudo contaminated meth.

Death may be as uncommon as dying from slipping off a step ladder, but it still presents the possibility of being charged with something more than just dealing.

Do I know people who have died from taking stimulants? Yes
Were there unforseen serious and far-reaching consequences to others outside immediate circles? You betcha
 
Your personal experiences are valid and noted.
People do die after using drugs, or they can suffer traumatic mental or physical side-effects which can be short-term or long lasting. However, these tragic events are relatively rare and are further reduced by harm-reduction ie facts backed by experience - together and in that order.

I have also suffered loss:a friend died in a car accident but another guy was driving. The situation and the consequences have parallels. However, I am not going to tell people to stop giving each other lifts. I am going to modify my own driving and make clear to anyone driving me around that they take the responsibility for my safety very seriously.

This is obviously something of a wound, PD, my apologies for scraching around with it. Unintentional.
I have a pretty poor record dealing with guilt myself, pm if you want a yarn :)
 
Thanks for bumping BT, and rollierobert, you points make absolute sense.
 
i was doing some searches for info on stuff, and....

this bust in canberra was noteable.

The raid at Lot 33 is the first to be conducted at Canberra nightclubs and bars as
part of Operation Skeet, a police campaign against the manufacture, supply and
use of ecstasy, amphetamines and cocaine and licensing breaches such as
overcrowding and under-age drinking.
Sniffer dogs, police, ACT Liquor Licensing, Customs officers and ACT Fire Brigade
officers
entered Lot 33 at 1.45am, asking for the music to be turned off, informing
patrons why they were there, and asking them to leave.
Patrons leaving the club walked past the police and Customs sniffer dogs...

as was this raid at a sydney night spot last year.

Undercover officers had infiltrated the crowded venue. Each had pre- selected a candidate for arrest. When the lights came up and music went off simultaneously the officers immediately approached their target whilst announcing to them "police officer, keep your hands out of your pockets and where i can see them."


both these stories come from right here on BL. and there's plenty more.
search bust OR raid, youll get to see...
dealing drugs is dangerous.
 
Tranquilo:
I think what Phase_dancer was saying is that there are potential problems arising from supplying others with unpredictable illicit drugs, that many at BL and in the community, would not consider.

If someone dies or is seriously effected from any drug they ingest, good quality or not, that can be proven to have come from you, the DPP will see to it that you are charged with manslaughter or causing grievous bodily harm.
And dont think they wont - putting blame on "scum drug dealers" by securing a conviction like this would be one of the most effective PR stunts I could think of.

Take a look at this provision of the Criminal Code of WA:

s279(2) - If death is caused by means of an act done in the prosecution of an unlawful purpose, which act is of such a nature as to be likely to endanger human life.
(In this case it is immaterial that the offender did not intend to hurt any person.)

This is one of the several definitions for MURDER under the code.

Imagine these circumstances: you give a friend a new pill to test and ask him to take it now, whilst also selling him other drugs that he had requested.
In a few hours the friend dies and it turns out the new pill was highly dangerous as it contained PMA.
Well a brave prosecutor may try and pin you for s279(2) - MURDER - life imprisonment with a 7 to 14 year minimum, no question.

Analysing the section:
Prosecution of a further unlawful purpose = supplying the other drugs that the friend wanted. This is sufficiently connected to the pill you asked to be tested - they can all bundled up as the one unlawful purpose of "drug dealing".

Act done likely to endanger life = giving the pill to test, asking it be taken, and it later shown to contain PMA; making that an act likely to endanger life. And as stated it is irrelevant that you did not know it contained PMA and believed it to be "safe".


As I said this is a long shot and an unlikely factual scenario.
I merely use it to convey Phase_Dancer's point - that there may be many problems that flow from dealing other than the obvious.
And regardless of whether you could be convicted of murder in my example, the thought that you could be charged with it (and not just manslaughter), would surprise all. Just like the many other potential disasters no one may consider.

The "game" can at times be as unpredictable as the drugs themselves.
 
^^^ A true story example:

Many years ago a friend of a friend gave another friend of a friend half a gram of ice (crystal meth) of very high purity because this friend of a friend was a very good mate. This friend of a friend hasn't done it in a while and seeing that this ice was very good, he was told to shoot half point max. This friend of a friend, not believing the other friend of a friend that the gear was so good loaded 3 points and slammed it.

What followed was a 3 day psycotic episode with a start of a seizure, demon attacks, ghosts etc.

What saved this friend of a friend was that his tolerance was *fairly* high as he used to be a regular user and the fact that he is a very big guy.

What saved the first friend of a friend is that this guy didn't die.
 
We’ve all heard stories about heroin overdoses and dealers being labeled as killers. Although this has nothing to do with stimulants, it nevertheless reflects a common attitude where someone supplying and administering drugs did not appreciate the severity of their actions. It describes 2 deaths by drugs which had very unexpected consequences for the supplier. It is an extreme example, with obvious differences to above stories being that this involved heroin and intentional suicide assistance.

This was very close to home, as I’d known both the people who died for 20 years. A member of my family was appointed executor of the will of one of the people and is godfather of the child, so that’s how close. The outcome of the case was finally published in a local newspaper yesterday, after over 3 years in court.

Before I give you the article let me first tell you how I knew these guys. Without knowing something of these characters, it could quite easily be viewed that it was the dealer who was largely responsible for this. While this is true in part, there's somewhat more to the story.

The guy who died was my gym partner for a couple of years. P was the brother of a close friend of mine, and he had known the girl who died (G) for many years in Melbourne before moving up to Qld. They weren't in a relationship and each came to this area separately. Still, P & G were mates, familiar shoulders for each other to cry on, close friends, with little in common it could be said, but their loneliness and dissatisfaction of life. But they were each other's closest friend. Perhaps they were soul mates….I think they were.

Without a doubt P was one of the best con men I've ever met. Once he had been so pissed he crashed into tree in the centre of the road. The cops found him asleep at the wheel and he had a blood sample taken which showed a blood/alcohol level of something over 0.1. But because his consent wasn’t sought for the blood test, he successfully defended himself in court, to the mouth open surprise of the prosecution. P quoted the law, etc and walked free. Before the trial he was as cocky as, seemingly without any doubt he’d get off.

That was how he was once. P at his peak could have sold wigwams to Indians, drugs to the clergy, or condoms to the castrated. I have known no-one quite like him.

But he was also an alcoholic and previous habitual heroin user who'd been suicidal countless times in period I knew him. I enjoyed his company when he wasn’t pissed or depressive - his dry but quick wit and recounts of crazy adventures. During the worst of things, I had tried to help him through organizing counseling and voluntary rehab. But it didn't help, he'd been there before and had learned their tricks. He was too smart for therapists; depressive and destructive, yet divisive and manipulative. Still, when willpower prevailed, he possessed an amazing ability, even at 40+ with a bad liver. P could put down the bottle and work out for 2-3 days a week and within 2 weeks would look like a world class body builder. I, on the other-hand, struggled to gain an extra couple of muscle cells over the same period. But as soon as he got there he would usually hit the bottle again and gradually fade back into a shadow.

I first met the girl G in the early eighties around the same time as I met P. She and her man of the time had moved to Qld from Vic. She was quite a depressive person and after many years her and her partner eventually separated. They had also tried for years to have a baby- in-vitro and other methods- only to finds all was useless. Then out of the blue she fell pregnant and had a beautiful boy who now lives happily with his father. The separation process, bitter as they often are, left G with little security as she had lost a custody battle and much of her share of the estate in maintenance back payment. I rarely saw her during this period but feedback from my bro who was closer, indicated she was very down.

I never met the guy convicted in this story, but I could very well sympathize with statements to the effect that P had hassled him for years for heroin so he could end his life. In short, for almost all those who knew them, both these people were considered way past therapy. Both - right or wrong - were intent on taking their own lives and had been for years. I couldn’t count the times P had said that’s how he’ll go out - with a big hit of smack.

Know either of these two for any time, and chances are you’d be siding with their desires. If in ones own mind a person’s world is painted with 30 years of only dark colours, its hard for them to be convinced there's such a thing as a bright outlook. Someone, anyone perhaps, was going to serve as the instrument and vehicle to end their unbearable suffering.

So here's (phew) the newspaper article. Because of the sensitive nature of this story for me and others concerned, I’ve abbreviated the names and places.

LOCAL NEWS, Tuesday July 22, 2003

A MAN who helped a woman he barely knew commit suicide with a heroin overdose was last week jailed for life for her murder.

W, 41, of **, had pleaded not guilty in the Supreme Court in Brisbane of to the murder of G M on March 16 2000 at **.

Justice Debra Mullins, in sentencing W to mandatory life imprisonment after a jury found him guilty of murder, said it was not a case of euthanasia.

“Your injecting of Ms M was not only unlawful but extremely foolish and tragic to all concerned,” Justice Mullens said.

“It’s not a case where euthanasia or a suicide pact is involved”

The court was told W barely knew Ms M, who suffered from depression and had tried to commit suicide six times in the previous four years. Ms M was a friend of an acquaintance of W's, a Mr P. S. Mr S had pestered W for two years to give him heroin so he could commit suicide. Justice Mullins said Mr S had worn W down in relation to supplying the heroin, and Ms M had taken advantage of the situation.
“It is tragic that she wanted to commit suicide and that you helped her” she said.

W admitted to police in an interview that he prepared the heroin overdoes and injected Ms M because she could not inject herself. He then gave a needle to Mr S, who injected himself.

W told police he wanted to help the pair end their lives painlessly. He said Ms M volunteered to go first.

He had asked her if she was absolutely sure, and she replied “Yes, just do it”

W told police Ms M's last words were “What a rush”

She then lay down and died

Although the Judge describes this as being “…tragic to all concerned” the reality is that the families of the deceased were generally relieved that it was all finally over. Family members conveyed the desperation displayed by the both these guys, even going as far as attempting to help W through speaking of this at preliminary hearings. Anyone who knew P knows how easy he would find it to talk someone into believing that notes left by him and G would ensure the supplier would not be implicated. Dumb as it may seem, whatever W believed, I’m sure it wasn’t that he’d be spending the rest of his life in prison for murder :(
 
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^^^ That is a very sad story. I don't really know what to say. I can only imagine what it must have been/is like for you. I have never lost someone close to me (3 knocks on wood), only aqueintances, but the saddness that always surrounds the circumstances can be quite unbearable.

You have my deepest condelences.
 
I too sympathise.

But an underlying truth is obvious. Drug dealing carries a harsh penalty not just for the illegality of it's existance, but for the inexplicably dangerous consequences it has.
 
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