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IBOGAINE for treatment

mostly-human

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
1,055
hi,
I'm wondering in Australia (Melbourne) how one would go about using ibogaine as a method of breaking heroin/methadone withdrawals.

Given the legal status I understand there's certain forum guidlines that must be adhered to. At the same time, this is also a serious HM issue - given how nasty & addictive a drug methadone is.

Anyway, I don't want anyone breaking the rules here. But if anyone has any suggestions on this issue, would be appreciated..I am thinking of primarily herbal sources of ibogaine and also if there is any current trials or planned trials that someone could participate in

thanks
 

[email protected]

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
197
Yeah, me to mostly-human. If anyone knows of a reputable practitioner I would be eternally grateful. I think Ibogaine could really help with my 20 year opiate addictions.
 

nanobrain

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
1,880
Location
hyperlocal
there are trained professionals doing Iboga groups in Australia. sufficient intent will manifest destiny, if ya get what i'm saying.
 

belarki

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
3,475
Location
Brisbane, Australia
There was a speaker on the topic at last year's Entheogenesis conference in Melbourne. Someone who attended that might be able to give you some advice?
 

Tabaluga

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
55
that was me. My main interest in in the pharmacology and botany of the plant, but to be honest I have little knowledge of any treatments happening in australia. I believe there are, but I know nothing about them so can't recommend them. I know that some of the treatments offered a few years ago were well intentioned, but totally irresponsible and dangerous, so please do your homework before putting your life in someone else's hands.
My general recommendation is to find the money to go to Mexico, Holland, or St Kitts. The amount of experience these clinics have go a long way to making sure you come out of it alive.
 

[email protected]

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
197
^^ I saw your presentation and was VERY impressed. I know of someone who did a treatment of sorts on the north coast of NSW a few years ago, but it seemed rather amateurish and haphazard. I would only be interested in a pharmacological, medical based program. Its WAY to important for non-professionals. There was a program in Canada I looked into but I think they have since closed. If anyone has any ideas please pm me.
 

Tabaluga

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
55
I am in two minds about the clinical setting. It is after all a trip and for most addicts not the most pleasant experience in the first place, so putting this into a clinical setting can be counterproductive.

The nice thing about some of the mexican places is that they have a very homely feel, but with enough personal space so you don't have to deal with anyone else's dramas. They have big burly bouncer type male nurses who make sure that EVERYONE is safe. ie, they keep the staff safe from the clients, the clients safe from each other, and the clients safe from themselves.

Personally [besides the nurse] I'd like to have a paramedic or doctor within a couple of minutes reach and a hospital within 5 minutes reach.

Sadly the sessions that were done in australia completely failed to address safety issues. Some of the people involved even claimed that a herb can't kill you. Well, newsflash, but some of the most toxic substances to humans are plants. Also, the bwiti fully realise that ibogaine can kill and it is deeply structured into their belief system.

Modern medicine can however save most such potential fatalities, which is why I think it is prudent to keep such services close by. It's one thing to die in the gabonese jungle while doing a ritual initiation, but it's another thing entirely to foolishly give a bad reputation to such an important anti addiction substance in a western setting.

Besides the obvious damage control issues I mentioned, there is also the preparation. I have yet to hear of one australian group that advises liver function tests [LFT] and ECC before even considering iboga/ibogaine. Also, no one I have come across here has ever considered the importance of doing an allergy exposure test. Iboga contains some very unique and pharmacologically potent proteins which can easily trigger anaphylactic shock in the right person. A microdose test is simple, cheap and can be done even with opiates in the system [ie days/weeks/months before the session].

ECC should be done within a few weeks or maybe even months before, but LFT should be done as close as possible to the session. Liver function can be seriously compromised by infection, so the more days you have between your test and your session, the higher the risk that the test is not accurate.

Sadly the nature of heroin use means that users lie about their use. When starting an ibogaine session such a lie can cost your life, and is so far the main reason for ibogaine fatalities. Bottom line is that the less heroin is in your system the better your chances of not dying. Some say that 24 hours is enough, while others prefer more. I would think this depends on dosage and individual metabolism. Try explaining that to a strung out user though.
Some clinics will use benzos to stretch the time between last opiate dose and the beginning of the ibogaine and this is something high-dose opiate addicts should really consider - purely under medical supervision though.

There is so much to consider, but luckily there are websites that have been dealing with this on an experiential basis for the better part of the decade. I think any aussies who want to offer this amazing healing herb should make themselves intricately familiar with the safety issues as not doing so will only jeopardise the availability for the rest.
 

Sublimit

Bluelighter
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
408
Location
Melbourne
that was me. My main interest in in the pharmacology and botany of the plant, but to be honest I have little knowledge of any treatments happening in Australia. I believe there are, but I know nothing about them so can't recommend them. I know that some of the treatments offered a few years ago were well intentioned, but totally irresponsible and dangerous, so please do your homework before putting your life in someone else's hands.
My general recommendation is to find the money to go to Mexico, Holland, or St Kitts. The amount of experience these clinics have go a long way to making sure you come out of it alive.
Hey, I heard about Ibogaine around 2 years ago, i'm very interested to learn that there is treatment available in certain places as i would defiantly consider this as worth doing. i've spent over 2k on a Naltrexone implants in the past, but then i relapse eventually. I think that i'd be able to benefit from Ibogaine because of my experiences with other psychedelic drugs including DMT. I,ve had a few intense spiritual experiences with LSD that have made me really emotional regarding my opiate addiction and realised that i needed to stop, and after those occasions i've managed to build some momentum and stay away for sustained amounts of time. But sadly i've never fully been able to control myself.

I want to start by finding out more about this drug, and finding out what options i have with regards to treatment. Any advise you could give me to help me take these first steps would be very appreciated.... i'd like to say a bit more but i can't PM you. just hope you check up on this thread again
 

dr. hoerdt

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
2
hi,
I'm wondering in Australia (Melbourne) how one would go about using ibogaine as a method of breaking heroin/methadone withdrawals.

Given the legal status I understand there's certain forum guidlines that must be adhered to. At the same time, this is also a serious HM issue - given how nasty & addictive a drug methadone is.

Anyway, I don't want anyone breaking the rules here. But if anyone has any suggestions on this issue, would be appreciated..I am thinking of primarily herbal sources of ibogaine and also if there is any current trials or planned trials that someone could participate in

thanks
vocanga africanas may possibly?? substituted ,i may be running a trial in adelaide .I may need subjects for a longitudinal study in to effects of indoles in relation to drug detoxifaction.
 

dr. hoerdt

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
2
Volcanga Afriacanas could hypothecaly substituted . I may be running a trial in adelaide .I may need subjects for a longitudinal study in to effects of indoles in relation to drug detoxifaction.
 

nanobrain

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
1,880
Location
hyperlocal
well since the Ibogahouse bunch aint got no ibogaine and practitioners trained to properly work with a plant teacher sacrament powerful enough to address issues not only on cellular / neurotransmitter / molecular levels, but also on quantum, genetic, karmic and who knows what other pataphysical levels - and a duration such that participants are rather notably off baseline for ~7 days - and sometimes longer with one-time administration (24 hours? get real, more like 24 x 7 or 168 hours) are rather few indeed, you will discover the task of finding a therapist running groups in a clinical setting, moreover, in accordance with any traditional pharma treatment program protocols since their applicability in this case is marginal to be a challenging endeavor indeed.

that said if the only tool you have is a hammer, every job becomes a nail, i can state that ibogaine is much more than even a hammers hammer and its applicability spectrum encompasses much more than treating drug addicts - which btw it will not do on its own without VERY SERIOUS INTENT on the addicted participants part.

good luck, god speed
 

Sublimit

Bluelighter
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
408
Location
Melbourne
^^^ apparently there is a clinic in Mexico, and if you pay for it you get it.

I think anyone who would be prepared to make that effort would indeed have very serious intent, and not just wanting to trip balls.

Tell me more Nanobrain, you seem to have first hand knowledge of this entheogen....
 

opi8

Bluelighter
Joined
May 21, 2010
Messages
1,982
I'd like to bring this up to the top again as a couple of friends of mine recently underwent ibogaine treatment for opiate addiction and as far as abstaining from opiates, so far, so good.

I've spoken to them a few times since they got out, went over for a cuppa once, and they both seem to have completely changed, but not in a bad way necessarily. I think their personalities and basic outlook on life have almost made them strangers to me. Obviously, I still recognize the people in them that I befriended, but the change I see in them is huge.

While speaking with them, I learned that one who suffered from anxiety and other mental issues before going through this treatment no longer needs (or wants) benzos at all, has no trouble sleeping, and it seems like the list of other changes are still becoming evident.

Neither of them have any desire to use at all, which is great. It seems to me though, they've come out completely different people. I suppose it's a massive lifestyle change as well.

Has anyone else used ibogaine, or know someone who has successfully used ibogaine to get off opiates? Did it also change you or them in ways that may not have been expected?

Ibogaine is obviously one powerful drug. It's a shame more funded research isn't being done on the Iboga plant, and many others due to the farcical "war on drugs".
 

SpiritFolk

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 9, 2010
Messages
543
Location
Sydney
Very interesting thread.

I had never heard of ibogaine until reading this and would love to hear if anyone has had first had experiences with the drug?
 

Mr Blonde

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
13,814
Location
Brisbane, Australia
^ You might have a bit more luck checking out Erowid's vault on ibogaine or the trip reports section on this site. I haven't heard of many Australians using it.

ETA: Also, I don't have TiHKAL handy on me right now but Shulgin says that there is an ibogaine containing tree in Western Australia?
 

Sublimit

Bluelighter
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
408
Location
Melbourne
that was me. My main interest in in the pharmacology and botany of the plant, but to be honest I have little knowledge of any treatments happening in australia. I believe there are, but I know nothing about them so can't recommend them. I know that some of the treatments offered a few years ago were well intentioned, but totally irresponsible and dangerous, so please do your homework before putting your life in someone else's hands.
My general recommendation is to find the money to go to Mexico, Holland, or St Kitts. The amount of experience these clinics have go a long way to making sure you come out of it alive.
The guy that treated me recently spoke at a biannually held convention in rural Vic. I think it might be the same one if that one in Melbourne is held every second year too perhaps

Agree about doing your homework. I first made contact with my provider 1.5years before i did it, but as i will explain later, I thought the professionalism of the whole experience far exceeded my expectations. The amount of pride they took in their work and genuinely making feel they're there to help you on so many levels was admirable and as comfortable as you could feel essentially going cold turkey from a moderate/strong opiate tolerance

Bump.... anyone???

@ dr. hoerdt
sounds very interesting... keep me in mind
lolz.
I didn't realize i had been in this thread before, and sort of spun out when i realized. Goes to show i was enthusiastic=D

I am in two minds about the clinical setting. It is after all a trip and for most addicts not the most pleasant experience in the first place, so putting this into a clinical setting can be counterproductive.

I agree. Even though my setting was the complete opposite approach. for me it's the only way. mutual conformation was booking a hotel on an amazing part of the gold coast for a week. Perfect view, q size bed opposite a big double sliding door, which when opened allowed you to see the tv and closed for privacy, and the balcony next to the bed. more importantly it allowed the sitter to turn the couch around and watch me closely in the initial 24 or so hours. from eating cannabis to help alleviate my lower back pain, getting an hour long remedial massage booked in for the afternoon to having a couple of joints with J on the balcony on day 3 and 4 and by day 6 we did sushi, sashimi, smoke and cinema.... was fucking stella

The nice thing about some of the mexican places is that they have a very homely feel, but with enough personal space so you don't have to deal with anyone else's dramas. They have big burly bouncer type male nurses who make sure that EVERYONE is safe. ie, they keep the staff safe from the clients, the clients safe from each other, and the clients safe from themselves.

I've been to a conventional rehab and i think other 'clients' can be distracting, so again i'm not sure if a clinical environment would suit me for Iboga, but i could see how it would be effective for people that aren't familiar with psychedelic drugs. Ibogaine was very smooth trance state, which was surprising because of how heavy the body load is. I think it was 6 hours before i got up the first time and they were very cautious about me standing. I said i could do it myself and getting up and going to the toilet was very awkward. It was like i was staggering drunk, but feeling awesome. not sick at all being already 36 hours off oxy. But yeah, walking around is a no no. probably only the 7 day duration could have been more, and thats where a clinic could be more appropriate also, as you might need/want longer therapy

Personally [besides the nurse] I'd like to have a paramedic or doctor within a couple of minutes reach and a hospital within 5 minutes reach.


Why? Ibogaine felt way smoother than mushrooms ever had for me. I asked about if there were any 'bad treatments' they've done and only one time had they needed to dull/kill the trip. I mean, if your ECG and LFT are sweet and you've at least prepared yourself a bit... tapering from 100mg of methadone to 40 for example. Seriously, the trip itself is the easy part.


Sadly the sessions that were done in australia completely failed to address safety issues. Some of the people involved even claimed that a herb can't kill you. Well, newsflash, but some of the most toxic substances to humans are plants. Also, the bwiti fully realise that ibogaine can kill and it is deeply structured into their belief system.

Modern medicine can however save most such potential fatalities, which is why I think it is prudent to keep such services close by. It's one thing to die in the gabonese jungle while doing a ritual initiation, but it's another thing entirely to foolishly give a bad reputation to such an important anti addiction substance in a western setting.

there are more and more voices here calling for there to be trials and they are starting to get noticed from what i've been told. After reading up about potentially dying from it i wasn't convinced that it be bad for me in any way, and i think people that choose to do Ibogaine are willing to risk the unknown as their addiction is killing them anyway. Having said that, I agree about how important the level of care is, and WD'ing from opiates in a gabonese jungle wouldn't be ideal. I'd imagine those shaman's load up with huge doses, and administer huge doses. I had 1.3g (0.9g Ibogaine/400mg Iboga) and i also was left with a 400mg booster of iboga to do at my on leisure


Besides the obvious damage control issues I mentioned, there is also the preparation. I have yet to hear of one australian group that advises liver function tests [LFT] and ECC before even considering iboga/ibogaine. Also, no one I have come across here has ever considered the importance of doing an allergy exposure test. Iboga contains some very unique and pharmacologically potent proteins which can easily trigger anaphylactic shock in the right person. A microdose test is simple, cheap and can be done even with opiates in the system [ie days/weeks/months before the session].


As i said i had those tests done and e-mailed them so they could show their Doctor friend. I also had one test capsule of ibogaine before i took the rest naturally, but nowhere near considered a microdose



There is so much to consider, but luckily there are websites that have been dealing with this on an experiential basis for the better part of the decade. I think any aussies who want to offer this amazing healing herb should make themselves intricately familiar with the safety issues as not doing so will only jeopardize the availability for the rest.

Not really. It's more of a matter of being in the position to do it. My approach was always spiritual. long term, well thats where it really does it's magic. It's a catalyst for change, and there is a certain attitude you need to have for it to do what you ask it to do:)
just some basic impressions from my experience.
 

Verybuffed

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Messages
2,751
Location
2615
It would be great to have Tabaluga posting here again.

The guy that treated me recently spoke at a biannually held convention in rural Vic. I think it might be the same one if that one in Melbourne is held every second year too perhaps
Sounds like your talking about Jase that did your treatment. I met him a couple of years ago at EGA. He is an awesome guy.
 
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