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How the British stole $45 trillion dollars from India from 1765 to 1938

Burnt Offerings

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Actually we never grew out of the fundamental beliefs of the Christian church (at least not in the West). It was the Church that instituted the belief in the fundamental dignity and mental and bodily integrity of all human beings (beginning with women). Prior to that in slave-cultures like Rome no-one except the patriarch had any authority or power over themselves.

Although the Church as a political institution made some very grace errors that resulted in great evil, the fundamental philosophies of Christianity changed the world and led ultimately to the emancipation of women and the end of slavery (and serfdom). But people who don't study Ancient History (or Philosophy) usually think the Church begins and ends with buggering altar boys.

Great book called Dominion by Tom Holland tells the story very clearly as history of ideas. Another one is Inventing the Individual by Larry Siedontop.

I'd avoid slagging Christianity until I'd read at least one of them.

Have you read "The Pursuit of the Millennium" by Norman Cohn, Atelier? That's a great one regarding medieval Christianity, although it's more about heretical movements than the institution of the Church itself.

I'd recommend it to anyone interested in the subject of early Christianity, though, as Cohn writes about many of the movements from before the Crusades up until the Reformation & "the Peasants War" in a way that really gives interesting and unexpected insights into the period and religious philosophies/movements that were going around back then
 

dalpat077

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I take it none of you have seen the below yet? Quite surprised that this wasn't all over the forums yesterday.

And no it's not fake news. When I was first told about it I told the person to fact check this shit. Well: turns out you couldn't make this shit up.

And this is how it all starts and comes back to what I said earlier in a post on this very thread. Somebody has to call it quits, let bygones be bygones, and move on (in general).

So of course: all good intentions go out of the window and there's a knee jerk reaction on my part. Hence my not posting about it yesterday.

So as to avoid any racial argument here's a fine parallel as made by our previous President Jacob Zuma just this past week. In a political conference over this past weekend he said that we've gone from one extreme to the other i.e. lived under the most oppressive and racist laws and government before 1994 to the total opposite of the spectrum. A total over compensation. And that, my good friends, coming from a black man. And who ironically, in spite of his corruption and antics, one I have more respect for than the current idiot in charge. At least with Jacob there: you knew the shot.

Anyway and as somebody candidly noted in some or the other comments section somewhere: I cannot be less white but I can drink less Coke! 🤣

 
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Burnt Offerings

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^ that Coca Cola thing was posted about in the BLM discussion thread
Most African countries are still fucked. And how many years later (after colonialism) (and it wan't just the British by the way)?

All I would emphasize is that, for a lot of these places, it hasn't really been that long...Mozambique for example has only been an independent state since the mid-1970s. You should cut 'em a little slack...Africa has actually produced some pretty inspiring leaders who made efforts in good faith to improve their nations...everyone likes to focus on how corrupt Africa is but they forget about people like Amilcar Cabral and Thomas Sankara, etc
 

TripSitterNZ

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africa is still been robbed by western world today go watch blood diamond. The western banks pay off the governments and rape all the natural resources. the and USA and the UK created islamic jidahist groups all the way back to destablize the middle east which spread to africa. White people only have it good because they literally stole everything that made their quality of life what it is today. You are responsible for making things right because you enjoy all the benefits of the theft to this day.

But ay the world is still racist a fuck maybe in another 200 years things will be less racist.
 

Nipper76

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africa is still been robbed by western world today go watch blood diamond. The western banks pay off the governments and rape all the natural resources. the and USA and the UK created islamic jidahist groups all the way back to destablize the middle east which spread to africa. White people only have it good because they literally stole everything that made their quality of life what it is today. You are responsible for making things right because you enjoy all the benefits of the theft to this day.

But ay the world is still racist a fuck maybe in another 200 years things will be less racist.
The Scottish also think Braveheart is a documentary.
 

dalpat077

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^ that Coca Cola thing was posted about in the BLM discussion thread


All I would emphasize is that, for a lot of these places, it hasn't really been that long...Mozambique for example has only been an independent state since the mid-1970s. You should cut 'em a little slack...Africa has actually produced some pretty inspiring leaders who made efforts in good faith to improve their nations...everyone likes to focus on how corrupt Africa is but they forget about people like Amilcar Cabral and Thomas Sankara, etc
Sorry about the Coke thing. Suppose it's too late to delete it here now then. I don't hang around the BLM thread so never saw it.

And I couldn't agree with you more. As noted: I've taken my shit down a notch and for a good while now. Especially on race. And particularly on Africa and South Africa. I get it now. I don't condone the barbaric violence that's sometimes committed here. But I get it. I understand how total and utter blinding hatred could overcome a person of another race, and who has been downtrodden and spat on, in the heat of the moment type of thing.

I guess my only point really is that somebody has to take the first step and say enough, we were wrong, we're sorry, now let's move on, and we cannot change the past. And making fiscal restitution isn't going to change anything. On a smaller scale: it's been tried and tested here and it's made no difference. Would returning these vast amounts of money to India change anything? Maybe. I don't have the answer when it comes to India.

But seems to me there's a culture of overreach. Almost like no one group is satisfied unless they've proved a point and had the last word. And as long as that carries on: well I don't see anything changing. It's just going to be a swing from one extreme to the other.

But for what it's worth: I have to admit I'm starting to root for Africa ("Black Africa" that is). Because I think you're right. All Africa needs to is get the fuck rid of some of these bad apple corrupt politicians and put people in power that actually do things and, well, who knows. And they can continue to be corrupt and line their pockets if that's the way things work. Just don't take it all. I mean: how many yachts can you have (type of thing).

Anyway. Thanks for the post. Nice post (and you'd not have seen me saying that a year ago so we've come a way) (well I have anyway)! 🤣
 

yubacity

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They were fighting men, paid to fight. Like any soldier in the world you can be deployed anywhere and become a target. British soldiers fought in Afghanistan, for Afghanistan and were targets the entire time, no one thanked them, the average soldier is just a young lad being told what to do.

No soldier expects thanks or land or some kind of special privilege for combat, that's not how it works. When you sign up you relieve yourself off any choices you might have had until your time is served, that's the agreement.

Those Indian soldiers may have went to war for Britain, but they signed up to do it, they knew what they were dying and they agreed to it. Army pay isn't great today either.
A lot of those soldiers were promised a path to independence if they helped in the war effort read the history .That was not given after ww1 but only after ww2. Just read about the bengal famine . The sikh regiments fought with valour in burma north africa and italy my grandfather owened a lot of land they were not needing pay but for the promise of independance it in the history books . Any empire is bad to the subjugated i love britain and a start was made when thressa may as prime minister stood up and sad sorry for the jallianwalla bagh massacre a good start we move on nowhttps://youtu.be/nWI6SsIXknU
 
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yubacity

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Look india has moved on and so have us that were born here in uk i love the people they not responsible but i do think where wrong was done a sorry should be said from the british state
 

Nipper76

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A lot of those soldiers were promised a path to independence if they helped in the war effort read the history .That was not given after ww1 but only after ww2. Just read about the bengal famine . The sikh regiments fought with valour in burma north africa and italy my grandfather owened a lot of land they were not needing pay but for the promise of independance it in the history books . Any empire is bad to the subjugated i love britain and a start was made when thressa may as prime minister stood up and sad sorry for the jallianwalla bagh massacre a good start we move on nowhttps://youtu.be/nWI6SsIXknU
The Bengal famine was in 1943, it might be man made but it was driven by war efforts. The land couldn't support the huge growth in the Indian population and the imports were disrupted due to the war.

The Irish had it pretty bad during the potato famine the british don't like to discriminate.

The English did so some good in the world. They abolished slavery, they were also active in fighting against it liberating slaves around the world and have birth to human rights. We gave the Indians cricket and abolished widow burning. They also gave the public the right to vote, bringing democracy to the planet.

You can't just look at history and cherry pick the bad bits, it's took us all thousands of years to evolve the freedoms most of us have today and our ancestors all took a lot of shit to get them, mine aswell as yours. I'm English today, but my family trace to Scotland and Ireland, believe me, you Indians were lucky you didn't live next door to them, but then what do you expect after being attacked by Romans, Vikings and Norman's for thousands of years.
 

yubacity

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Yes the brits did well all over the world I know those things you say about slavery i used to love talking about it when i moved to states it made me proud i talked more of led zeppelin the who cream being born in England I love it. I think the greatest thing about uk is the NHS love it to bits pulled out of car unconscious and deflated lung and ribs cracked . But it can be ok to say sorry about things that where done during empire which were not right
 

Foreigner

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Yeah... should be rephrased to be the British aristocracy and the royal family.

It's one of the reasons I never cared to visit Europe. There is so much old artistry but it exists because of the wealth obtained from pillaging the world.
 

Xorkoth

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People have always stolen land and resources. White people didn't invent it and we sure as shit don't have any ownership of it. Beyond white guilt and minority victimhood, I don't see the point in circling around white history and convincing ourselves that we invented evil. That's nonsense. England helped and hurt India. There were much worse atrocities being committed in Africa and Asia at the time.

As for Africa, they were selling their own people as slaves... and you can't say they didn't benefit either. If it was me, I'd much rather be related to a slave than be a black man in Africa. You don't see a lot of African Americans migrating back to the motherland.

"Meh, everyone does it, so what happened wasn't better or worse, get over it".

All anyone asked for in this thread was acknowledgement. Of course you didn't personally do it, and neither did I, but the way you and many others talk about it, such as in this post I am replying to, is serving to trivialize what happened and deflect from uncomfortable truths. The fact is, European nations spent centuries forming global empires at the expense of pre-existing civilizations, and in the 1900s left these cultures unprepared to govern themselves after centuries of oppression and subjugation. Saying stuff like "well they were doing it to themselves already" only serves to try to pass off responsibility or deflect There might be some truth to it, but why is that where you jump to, rather than admitting that European nations from their imperialism periods committed atrocities across the globe that much of the world is STILL trying to recover from, up to half a millenium later? It's none of our own personal faults, those of us on either side alive today and discussing this, but it's important to recognize what really happened, and perhaps for some responsibility on national scales to be embraced.

And it CERTAINLY should be understood that these cultures' current states are not indicative of their worth as cultures. Some people use the modern state of "shithole countries" (not my quote to be sure) as "proof" that their bigotry is valid, which is just sickening and cruel on several levels.
 

Nipper76

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"Meh, everyone does it, so what happened wasn't better or worse, get over it".

All anyone asked for in this thread was acknowledgement. Of course you didn't personally do it, and neither did I, but the way you and many others talk about it, such as in this post I am replying to, is serving to trivialize what happened and deflect from uncomfortable truths. The fact is, European nations spent centuries forming global empires at the expense of pre-existing civilizations, and in the 1900s left these cultures unprepared to govern themselves after centuries of oppression and subjugation. Saying stuff like "well they were doing it to themselves already" only serves to try to pass off responsibility or deflect There might be some truth to it, but why is that where you jump to, rather than admitting that European nations from their imperialism periods committed atrocities across the globe that much of the world is STILL trying to recover from, up to half a millenium later? It's none of our own personal faults, those of us on either side alive today and discussing this, but it's important to recognize what really happened, and perhaps for some responsibility on national scales to be embraced.

And it CERTAINLY should be understood that these cultures' current states are not indicative of their worth as cultures. Some people use the modern state of "shithole countries" (not my quote to be sure) as "proof" that their bigotry is valid, which is just sickening and cruel on several levels.
What they really want is revenge.
 

birdup.snaildown

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Xorkoth said:
the way you and many others talk about it, such as in this post I am replying to, is serving to trivialize what happened and deflect from uncomfortable truths... etc

I disagree. My post was factual. I don't fail to recognise what happened. I just think it is important to also recognise what happened elsewhere for context.

Foreigner said:
It's one of the reasons I never cared to visit Europe. There is so much old artistry but it exists because of the wealth obtained from pillaging the world.

This, for example, is going too far. The British are not solely responsible for everything that happened to India. Far from it. I'm not going to buy into the white self-hatred being sold on every street corner, because it's bullshit. I'm sick of it.
 

birdup.snaildown

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dalpat077 said:
Xorkoth said:
All anyone asked for in this thread was acknowledgement.
True story.

Um, okay. This was the OP:

TripSitterNZ said:
Fucking assholes are the reason why so many countries are ruined like Pakistan and india. I reckon all brits should pay a fucking tax to india for the shit they pulled off on them.

This was his second post.

TripSitterNZ said:
did you not read anything no they are not. Its the other way around. The only reason a industralized UK exists is because they stole 45 trillion dollars from india to fuel their empire. If the UK never stole indias wealth india would be the most powerful highly developed economy in that reigon on par with a living style of japan. and the UK would of been a fucking shit hole that got steam rolled by nazis and a shit hole to live in compared to what it is now.

None of that translates to "I just want acknowledgement" to me... The tone is aggressive and (more important to me) it is riddled with falsehoods.

Nobody refuses to acknowledge these things. I'm certainly not refuting this historical account (more or less) but the state of India is not simply Britain's doing. That is not how Indian people - that I've known - tend to feel about the situation. The Raj did a lot of good. My point is, there have been countless invasions from different empires. As far as occupation goes, Britain's occupation of India (relative to the world standard at the time) wasn't so bad.

The Islamic occupation of India was far more devastating and cruel, but (along with it) there were benefits.
 
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