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Opioids Heroin withdrawal is "just like having the flu"...right?

B

belfort

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
2,293
i have watched movies and read a few books written by addicts and i agree, some of them exaggerrate heroin withdrawal a little bit..yet then you have doctor, addiction experts as you say that basically say going through heroin withdrawal is like having the flu, that the person will be fine, no biggie..

hmm, i have went through heroin withdrawals and had the flu and lemme tell you, having the flu is a walk in the park compared to kicking heroin..i mean, maybe its the only ailment or condition these drug experts cn compare heroin withdrawl to but its an absurd one imo..i remember kicking heroin to be a nightmarish experience..5-6 solid days of sweating, leg kicking, no sleep, extreme anxiety, cannot get comfortable, extreme exhaustion, crippling depression, stomach pain etc etc...then after the physical withdrawals are over, u still tend to suffer from lingering depression and anhedonia, weakness in body that can last for months..

so what do people that have kicked heroin think of this comparison as im sure u have heaard it before :)
 
The physical part, which is the easy part, is probably only marginallu worse than the worst case of the flu with a couple added nasties. The psychological part is the real bitch though. Most of us, deprived of dope or even in moments of a high degree of willpower, can stomach the physicality IME, it's what comes after, the anhedonia, the PAWS, that makes getting off dope so difficult and so prone to spectacularly fucking up your equilibrium.
 
heroin w/d is kind of like a bad case of the flu yea but at least with the actualy flu you can sleep it off, and be somewhat comfortable laying on a couch all day. heroin w/d there is no such thing as sleep or being comfortable. there is absolutely no respite from the torment....
 
i agree. i would choose flu any day over opiate withdrawal. i would love to just have a flu when going thru it. its not even close... the constant anxiety, depression, coupled with no sleep.. then u finally get an hour of sleep, think ur almost thru it... only u have no energy, no matter what you do. everything becomes a challenge.. this lasts for a long time.. thats the hardest part for me. i wish it was a week of suffering then done, but no its not. it takes a long time to fully recover. and the temptation is always there..
 
There's the theory that the psychological side hits some much more badly than others. I'd say this is true and probably based on genetics - with the bad implication that those being susceptible to emotional distress, hyperalgesia etc. (who might make a good part of those taking downers) will get worse withdrawal.

The physical side is somewhat manageable with medications etc. but the mental side is pure terror of mind, utter hopelessness, extreme pain and panic, absolute loneliness ... just crush some naloxone-containing pill and snort a bit of it to get a hint of what it's like ;) the 'good' thing with naloxone is that it lasts only for an hour or so. But I've learned the hard way that it's not only active when IV'd but also nasally... and strangely this 'works' even if you don't have real tolerance to opioids, because naloxone - naltrexone as well - isn't just an antagonist but an inverse agonist.
 
The mental part of withdrawals can really magnify the physical.
Restless legs and insomnia drive me crazy. What it makes my stomach do is terrible as well. But I know that it is more mental often times because I kicked one time when I had a 9 mos. jail sentence that put me away at a terribly big habit. Like 30 bags a day... Because I knew I couldn't cop it wasn't that bad. However when I'm free and it is just a call away it's hard not to think about.
Although I was in rehab with a dude who was laying in a warm shower for 3 days continuously puking and the hell of things like that would be hard to go through. They let him out and couldn't deal with him. The 30 Mgs. Of methadone did nothing to touch his sickness.
 
There are some quite good ways to alleviate most of these symptoms, it's even possible for some to actually reverse the tolerance pharmacologically ... but unfortunately this is just science for now (which is used by some with great success nevertheless) and probably will not be seen in the general practice anytime soon :( addicts deserve to suffer and all this bullshit.
 
i wishi could try Iboga / Ibogaine. everything i have seen seems to suggest it is an instant cure for opiate addiction, meaning after a single dose, u will not experience any withdrawal symptoms, and also not crave your DOC for months. they think it is able to completely reset all your receptors to pre addict levels
 
Iboga is truly intriguing indeed. It seems that it combines multiple mechanisms in a single molecule, they separated the anti-addictive mechanism somewhat from it's psychedelic / dissociative shamanic properties but the dissociation itself contributes a good part pharmacologically and overall the trip seems to be very therapeutic.

Yeah, I'm really thinking about doing an Iboga session some day too ... the therapeutic aspects are promising of course, but I'm just very curious about the substance and it's spiritual properties.
 
Opiate withdrawals are not the same as the flu. Due to relapse rate, and the kindling effect each time you experience withdrawal syndrome it becomes a magnitude worse.

I can deal with the physical symptoms easily with some comfort meds, but all the mental bullshit, cyclical thinking and extreme dysphoria leave me in a state of sheer panic and loneliness that is often hard to overcome. The PAWS is the worst part. It comes and goes, but when it comes it comes with force. The hallucinations, auditory, and visual are extremely terrifying too.
 
Yeah, the kindling effect is something really strange, I've experienced this too a bit and it made me definitely and finally stop doing any opioids even when I could skip the most part of the withdrawal (and tolerance development to some extent too) by pharmacological interventions - adjusting glutamate with memantine, mostly. But there is really a strong learning effect somewhat.

Truly interesting is that we have this peptide DAMGO that is an opioid agonist and actually reverses tolerance. Also it seems that endorphins don't trigger that downward spiral as exogenous opioids - so we'd be much better off with positive allosteric modulators, but as far as I know we don't have such ones yet ...
 
take the flu, multiply it by 5 along with all the mental shit that finally hits you after being sober for being doped up so long. the physical is terrible but for me it was the mental and emotional that really had me. I wanted H and pills, i wanted to forget about everyone i hurt and be high again but thats the game the drugs play. You're all fucked up relying on some dope to make you happy and to deal with your shit. imagine a life without it, you could still be happy, maybe with a vice, but nothing is as bad as lady H. withdrawal isn't the hardest part, it's the mental so yes u get a flu, but you get over that shit. it's when you have a mental disease forcing you to do something is the fight. someone once compared H to chemo, i have no idea how that feels to be honest, but if getting off drugs is compared to radiation for cancer then u know that is some fucked shit. take care hope you stay clean
 
yes of course there are medications u can take to make withdrawals easier but im talking going through it 100% cold turkey..i ttalk to people that cant sto smoking cigs or pot and i laugh..they are able to eat, sleep somewhat and go to work..during h withdrawals, i couldnt walk down my stairs but i had to piss every 5 seconds so i grabbed an empty gallon jug...

i remember during withdrawals, id lay down, freezing cold, within seconds im melting, body is sweaty, stomach is in knots and worst of all, my legs were so restless i couldnt lay down any longer so id stand up and walk around my room and collapse within minutes due to exhaustion..oh and every single negative thought or emotion seems to be haunting you nonstop..dont think you are gonna sleep it off either, u will be up all night feeling like this and then the next 2-3 days...with the flu, i feel shitty but was able to comfortably watch tv or sleep..
 
if ibogaine is as effective as some claim, if it truly dials back tolerance, then it seems like the heroin addicts 'get out of jail free' card..you could theoretically use heroin for months, then use ibogaine to kick and reverse toleerance then just go right back to using heroin..i dunno about anyone else but this sounds way too good to be true..
 
Its effective at (for most) showing you why you dont need it anymore, not to reset the tolerance
so you can catch the dragon again.
 
its just like the flu but then you shit your pants and puke at the same time, while having the flu.
 
I think you might be thinking of a cold. The flu - as in, actual influenza - usually results in about two weeks of intense fever, delirium, respiratory distress, digestive disruption, anorexia, widespread pain, etc etc. It's not a minor thing and is one of the major infectious killers of the last three centuries.
 
a cold? dope withdrawal is much worse than a cold. if anything, it would be the flu but I actually think your body/feeling is much worse.

if withdrawal was only a slight cold then everyone would be shooting heroin foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
 
Sixbuckets...influenza is just a blanket term. The one that killed so many people was spanish flu. There are many other types of fluenzas out there....my favorite being "afluenza" which only killed four people.

It is why you get a different flu shot every year because the virus changes. It is kinda like the difference between a northern gray squirrel and a southern ground squirrel. They are both squirrels and they have a very common ancestry, but they are slightly different. So like the virus has a family tree where some versions are crazy infectious and can kill the elderly and infants, and others are very mild and not very infectious. The reason you don't keep getting the same flu is because of antibodies that your body builds up. Antibodies are kinda like the vaccine to that specific strain of virus. If you have had that version, your body will fight it off easily, however if it mutates your flocked. Here is an example. I have had an immunization to hep b. I have those antibodies in my system. Whenever I get a blood test they are there, and will always be there....unless I get some crazy immuno deficiency problem going on at some point.

So to answer the question opiate withdrawal is like some crazy version of the flu that causes different effects in everyone however it is extremely baffling in the fact that it makes you suffer profound emotional problems throughout its duration and months after. Consider having the flu and then finding out your cat burned down your house with your prized collection of rare spoons inside after your wife left you to be with your brother who also was renting the house that burned down so he made of with your woman, your home, your cat, and probably your spoons. Wow I am really rambling...lets just leave it at opiate withdrawal really sucks.
 
SixBuckets said:
I think you might be thinking of a cold. The flu - as in, actual influenza - usually results in about two weeks of intense fever, delirium, respiratory distress, digestive disruption, anorexia, widespread pain, etc etc. It's not a minor thing and is one of the major infectious killers of the last three centuries.
Click to expand...

In addition to all the sadness, apathy due to the lack of endorphin, etc, etc.

BostonBrownTown said:
a cold? dope withdrawal is much worse than a cold. if anything, it would be the flu but I actually think your body/feeling is much worse.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the emotional issues one may need to confront.

Like Manboychef said:

"I can deal with the physical symptoms easily with some comfort meds, but all the mental bullshit, cyclical thinking and extreme dysphoria leave me in a state of sheer panic and loneliness that is often hard to overcome. The PAWS is the worst part. It comes and goes, but when it comes it comes with force. The hallucinations, auditory, and visual are extremely terrifying too."

But it's worth all the suffering comparing to the life you have while using it everyday.
The 'insane' routine. The lack of joy. That's definitely worth it, for sure IMO/E!!




 
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