Drug related death; Brisbane

[Crinklecut]

I agree with you Raver_zell it is not fair to be speculating on the cause of your friends death and it most certainly isnt fair placing blame on his friends or anyone for that matter.

I would hate to see a trashy newspaper like the courier mail quote some more speculation posted in a forum to sell more newspapers and make things worse for the family and friends of this man. my comments were made on my personal observations from the night written on the basis that it was a 'suspected overdose' as reported by the media in the article quoted in this thread. I apologise if my post offended the friends or family of this man in anyway.

INO - Regardless of the paramedics/first aid presence - thats not harm reduction - thats just being smart and duty of care. If groups like enlighten and Ravesafe were involved perhaps education would be provided more than 'you don't know what it'll do to you' scare tactic bullshit. We can't rule out that drugs caused this guys death - we can't rule out that perhaps it was a combination of a few drugs - nothing is certain - the fact is he's dead - and IMO this may well have been preventable.

On the note of Ravesafe not being at the event. I actually asked Harley (the rave co-ordinator) on the night if Ravesafe were at the event and he said he'd contacted Ravesafe about it but had chosen to go with the Paramedics because he had heard very good things about them. And in no way did the paramedics have the 'tough arse attitude on drugs' as you described. They certainly didnt condone drug use but as i mentioned before they were not judgmental and their main interest was in making sure everyone was alright. After they treated a certain person i know they even printed them off pages of information from the ravesafe website on the specific drug they had ingested and gave it to them to have a read of. very professional indeed.

However, I have never seen the Ravesafe team in action, just a brief encounter seeing them spraying people with water to cool them off at an event on a hot summers day. I do know they play a very important role in harm minimisation however I think it's unfair to speculate whether they could have prevented this death. The facts are whatever happened and for whatever reason this man has tragically died. And the speculation as to what caused or could have prevented his death appears to be causing his family and friends more grief.

Everybody is distressed by this mans death and everybody wants to know what happened to this fellow raver, and to be able to use this information to prevent it from happening to other ravers. But lets just wait for the expert’s results before we start jumping to conclusions of what should’ve, could’ve and would’ve happened.

 

[zaineaol.nu]

I agree with you Raver_zell it is not fair to be speculating on the cause of your friends death and it most certainly isnt fair placing blame on his friends or anyone for that matter.

I would hate to see a trashy newspaper like the courier mail quote some more speculation posted in a forum to sell more newspapers and make things worse for the family and friends of this man. my comments were made on my personal observations from the night written on the basis that it was a 'suspected overdose' as reported by the media in the article quoted in this thread. I apologise if my post offended the friends or family of this man in anyway.



On the note of Ravesafe not being at the event. I actually asked Harley (the rave co-ordinator) on the night if Ravesafe were at the event and he said he'd contacted Ravesafe about it but had chosen to go with the Paramedics because he had heard very good things about them. And in no way did the paramedics have the 'tough arse attitude on drugs' as you described. They certainly didnt condone drug use but as i mentioned before they were not judgmental and their main interest was in making sure everyone was alright. After they treated a certain person i know they even printed them off pages of information from the ravesafe website on the specific drug they had ingested and gave it to them to have a read of. very professional indeed.

However, I have never seen the Ravesafe team in action, just a brief encounter seeing them spraying people with water to cool them off at an event on a hot summers day. I do know they play a very important role in harm minimisation however I think it's unfair to speculate whether they could have prevented this death. The facts are whatever happened and for whatever reason this man has tragically died. And the speculation as to what caused or could have prevented his death appears to be causing his family and friends more grief.

Everybody is distressed by this mans death and everybody wants to know what happened to this fellow raver, and to be able to use this information to prevent it from happening to other ravers. But lets just wait for the expert’s results before we start jumping to conclusions of what should’ve, could’ve and would’ve happened.

Mate you're a champ.

Cheers for clearing some things up - its not so much ravesafe im interested in - but a few other harm min groups.

If it does boil down to drugs in the case - as i said - alot of factors can contribute - being combined with a number of things as said above that he had possible medical complications - ingesting any chemical is dangerous if you dont know if they mix or not.

I've been lookin at this situation from the outsdie - and as i've mentioned the fact that he died is just reason for me to find out why - i do a fair bit of research into drugs and their effects - and related deaths do interest me.

I feel for the people hit by this tradgic incedent which i hope doesnt repeat itself. As i said - if drugs where the case - i believe this could somewhat been prevented if substantial education was provided - or people more often chose to educate themselves.

 

[The Fish]

I too was at this event and am concerned that it resulted in a death.

The amount of rumours flyihng around that night means it's unlikely that anyone other than the departed or his close friends really know what happened. Amoung the rumours were GHB death, overdose, and contaminated easter eggs. The easter egg rumour is one that made me very angry.

The chocolates were wrapped perfectally in coloured foil. THere is no way in hell they could have been wrapped to well by hand. Hundreds of people ate them, and only 4 or 5 reported sick, There is no way in hell they were contaminates. They were cheap-tasting chocolates handed out in good faith by two punters at the event who had gone to the trouble of dressing up and getting into the spirit of things.

To think that these two men were then subjected to being interviewed by police under suspicion of poisoning causing death. All because people whispered rumours without stopping to think. I suspect they wont be so plurry next time, if indeed they ever come to another event.

I spoke to a person on the night who said the easter egg chocolate made him feel funny. His symptoms were: feeling a bit dizzy, his eyes going funny and some nausia. Yep, the symptoms of good MDMA.

This is where I think harm-minimisation could have assisted. If the users at the party were aware of the possible effects of the drugs they consume, hopefully the runour about the poisoned eggs would not have been circulated, and the consequences averted. Perhaps Rave-Safe being at these events would help in this way.

There are many things that could have led to this death. Hopefully the post-morten results will be released.

 

[Crinklecut]

yeah i heard the rumour about the easter eggs on the night and i just laughed (mind you i still wasnt going to chance eating one). definately feel sorry for the fella in the easter bunny suit handing them out, in good faith in the spirit of the rave and easter who's now being subjected to the police interviews. As if a man jumping around in a giant easter bunny suit giving out chocolate easter eggs at an easter rave would poison people.

Makes you think twice about eating the candy cains from those little Westfield Santa Elves around X-mas though... I wouldnt trust a midget.

 

[NME]

This is where I flame the rumors.

The 2 gents handing out easter eggs weren't just average punters. They were good mates of mine. Every event one of them in particular has gone out of his way to dress up and show that even a man covered in tatoos can have a funny side.

If you have ever been to a rave, you would know who im talking about, however wont release his name for obvious reasons.

A best friend of mine ate an egg - he was fine. The tests came back negative. Poor mate just got escorted out and flamed because he looked suss - tatoos arent suss.

On a lighter note - Ive talked to him numerous times since the event. He has no harsh feelings and will probably be at the next rave.

I have to say however, that im absolutely disgusted in the rave scene. Like a bunch of 12 year olds spreading rumors about who kissed who.

PLUR doesnt exist, not after Saturday night.

 

[The Fish]

The 2 gents handing out easter eggs weren't just average punters...

No, they were people I saw out regularly and chatted to. People who's photo I took early Saturday night. Please pass on my best, if you can.

 

[mepat1111]

This is where I flame the rumors.

The 2 gents handing out easter eggs weren't just average punters. They were good mates of mine. Every event one of them in particular has gone out of his way to dress up and show that even a man covered in tatoos can have a funny side.

If you have ever been to a rave, you would know who im talking about, however wont release his name for obvious reasons.

A best friend of mine ate an egg - he was fine. The tests came back negative. Poor mate just got escorted out and flamed because he looked suss - tatoos arent suss.

On a lighter note - Ive talked to him numerous times since the event. He has no harsh feelings and will probably be at the next rave.

I have to say however, that im absolutely disgusted in the rave scene. Like a bunch of 12 year olds spreading rumors about who kissed who.

PLUR doesnt exist, not after Saturday night.

You seem to be 'good mates' with a lot of people.

 

[The Fish]

^^^

That's very easy in the Brisbane rave scene. It's small. All the regulars tend to know each other.

 

[INO]

I too was at this event and am concerned that it resulted in a death.

The amount of rumours flyihng around that night means it's unlikely that anyone other than the departed or his close friends really know what happened. Amoung the rumours were GHB death, overdose, and contaminated easter eggs. The easter egg rumour is one that made me very angry.

The chocolates were wrapped perfectally in coloured foil. THere is no way in hell they could have been wrapped to well by hand. Hundreds of people ate them, and only 4 or 5 reported sick, There is no way in hell they were contaminates. They were cheap-tasting chocolates handed out in good faith by two punters at the event who had gone to the trouble of dressing up and getting into the spirit of things.

To think that these two men were then subjected to being interviewed by police under suspicion of poisoning causing death. All because people whispered rumours without stopping to think. I suspect they wont be so plurry next time, if indeed they ever come to another event.

I spoke to a person on the night who said the easter egg chocolate made him feel funny. His symptoms were: feeling a bit dizzy, his eyes going funny and some nausia. Yep, the symptoms of good MDMA.

This is where I think harm-minimisation could have assisted. If the users at the party were aware of the possible effects of the drugs they consume, hopefully the runour about the poisoned eggs would not have been circulated, and the consequences averted. Perhaps Rave-Safe being at these events would help in this way.

There are many things that could have led to this death. Hopefully the post-morten results will be released.

Yeah I would have been pissed off if it was me that had to go through what those guy's went through. BUT then I also stop and think that if someone I knew ended up in the first aid room and thought that it was something they had been given that made them that way and noone did anything about it or al the very least checked it out I would have been even more pissed off.
If the event promoters got wind of a rumor that something might have been suspect and they didnt check it out then they would be fucked (from a legal point of veiw).It might have ruined two guys night by being detained and investagated but IF and I mean IF those eggs had been tampered with (and they hadn't) and the organisers did nothing it would have ruined alot more ppl's night so as far as I am concerned that demostartes to me that they give a fuck about the punters safety.
I have looked into putting on a party myself a while ago and I checked out a few options for crowd safety. If anyone does their homework on this issue I am sure that they will realize that the guys from emergency first aid are the best option (and by no means the cheapest either) so before anyone puts shit on these guys about harm minimalization do your homework and you will see that they have done theirs also.
If the day comes that I can run something like this I will deffinately be contacting these guys to run my first aid room.

 

[phase_dancer]

Rave safe don't attend the Mayhem parties because they have Emergency First Aid on site intead.

As someone who has been involved with RaveSafe since early 1999, I must say that in all that time working with paramedics and other groups, I have never come across a group that operates the way Qld RS does. Peer Helpers maintain constant crowd involvement, with team leaders encouraging peer helpers to roam the crowd and have fun.

It might look like they're only water spraying, but these guys are also on a constant lookout for anyone in trouble and report any potential danger areas or susceptible individuals to Team Leaders. On several occasion RS have been the first on the scene to a serious incident, often also when ambulance personnel have been on site. More than one life has been saved by the quick actions of peer helpers and their ability to interact with paramedics.

From the many paramedics and ambulance workers I've met - and who almost always perform their duties flawlessly - most rarely know much about drug pharmacology or variations in actions of more than a few different rec drugs. Perhaps this is why health professionals, security and promoters continue to consult RS on a range of such issues.

So, in a tempered manner, I feel I must state that it's one thing for a promoter to indicate he/she's concerned for the wellbeing of patrons, and even try to meet them all individually- that's commendable- but actual care is reflected in prioritising safety, and that means employing a thorough risk management process

On the note of Ravesafe not being at the event. I actually asked Harley (the rave co-ordinator) on the night if Ravesafe were at the event and he said he'd contacted Ravesafe about it

The Mayhem promoters were never in contact with Qld RaveSafe leading up to this event. The last time an official representative from Qld RS spoke with H, was as I mentioned, late last year at a remote setting rave. Perhaps he's (still) got RaveSafe confused with another organisation?

 

[zaineaol.nu]

^I'm pretty sure ravesafe are are free service too arn't they?
If that being the case - would it not hurt to have all hands on deck?


Cheers p_d i think you got across alot of the points i was trying to make, but i'm just a bit to blunt and/or rude. But these are the points i was trying to make.

 

[phase_dancer]

Yes zaineaol, RaveSafe is currently a state endorsed & funded program. Contact details can be found at ravesafeqld.com

 

[JUST SAY N²O]

Regarding the Easter eggs, i hope the dudes handing them out know that they shouldnt be worried about anybody actually believing the bullshit besides those 2 high school kids who jumped at the chance to be interviewed on the news.

If ya wanna be really optimistic about the whole thing, maybe cos it was on the news it'll scare parents into not letting their 15 year olds come to Mayhem events anymore :D
Fuck yeh, what a public service you've done.
~bugs

 

[drink drank drunk]

personally, i think the easter eggs thing was great

my parents and my girlfriend's parents both thought the death was due to an evil person handing out poisoned easter eggs

which stopped them from thinking it was due to a drug overdose. which stopped them thinking i might have possibly been on drugs. which means they're not worried about me going, because they taught me long ago not to accept candy from strangers.

 

[The Fish]

drink drank drunk: how very selfish of you.

INO: I hear what you're saying. Once the rumours had circulated, the promoters had to act. I understand that. Once the media got hold of the rumour, there was no way it wasn't going public.

The point is, the rumour should never have got of the ground. If users were educated about the full range of effects of MDMA, then they would have been aware of why they were feeling strange. Instead, ignorant users lept to conclusions because they did not understand what MDMA can do.

This is where peer education and harm minimisation has the biggest scope for impact. Even if the users don't research their drugs before-hand, RaveSafe (or likewise) on site could listen to those feeling off and explain the symptoms of MDMA.

There were a lot of young, ignorant users that night. Part of the issues with a 16+ event, but not unavoidable.

 

[drink drank drunk]

the fish;
:D :D
my parents will be fiiiiine

 

[Doogan]

When is the coroner expected to release his report, no doubt it will say it was not an XTC related death, but will never make the news, its more damaging if they don't now that everyone already thinks XTC is evil from the speculation raised by media(How do the media always seem to make speculation sound like unfalable fact?).

 

[Zhyr]

Regarding the Easter eggs, i hope the dudes handing them out know that they shouldnt be worried about anybody actually believing the bullshit besides those 2 high school kids who jumped at the chance to be interviewed on the news.

If ya wanna be really optimistic about the whole thing, maybe cos it was on the news it'll scare parents into not letting their 15 year olds come to Mayhem events anymore :D
Fuck yeh, what a public service you've done.
~bugs

I remember someone being underage and attending 18+ raves.
Yeah, theres a bunch of 16 year olds running around at 16+ raves... big whoop...
I wont argue the fact that 16 year olds need to learn control and whatnot, but then again, I know quite a few older people who need to learn the same lesson.

 

[starlet_girl]

anyone heard any more about this?

coroner's reports take about 10 days i heard so i imagine it would be soon...

whether it's a drug related death or not it would be good to release the results because
a) if it isn't, it will stop all the speculation and nasty things been said (although this seems to have subsided now). would be good for the media to know too, even thought they probably wouldn't mention it on any news.
b) it if is, it would serve as a good reminder that we are not all invincible and that there are risks in what we do, for those who've become complacent.

 

[gumby11]

Great post ^^^^