DON'T BAN e-Cigs, just the over-powered conduction-mode (coil-based) "ATOMIZERS"!!

[Egzoset]

Salutations,

The "vaping" (e-Cigs) habit recently faced sustained mass media & political attacks although it was originally intended as a health-wise alternative/substitute for self-poisoning combustion, hence the label "Harm Reduction". So, how come "vape deaths" occur at all??



Well, this should be no surprize to persons knowing about UN's 2014 effort to demonize "Big Tobacco" (and smokers...) via its international FCTC/COP6 event held in Moscow/Russia, away from any risk of criticism:

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Those "spe¢iali$ts"/"expert$" weren't trying to fix a consumption method inherited after the mercantile 1880 - 1881 invention of James Albert Bonsack (which rapidly rendered cigarettes affordable enough to propagate globally until it transformed into a Public Health issue of planetary proportions), euh... No, actually their report most definitely inspired multiple legislatures now treating e-Cigs/Vaporizers practically the same as tobacco/nicotine combustion:

[ https:// www.who.int/fctc/cop/sessions/COP6_report_FINAL_04122014.pdf ]​

WHO: Report of the sixth session of the Conference of the Parties to the WHO Framework Convention on Tobacco Control (2014-Oct, 13-18)​

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Page 13 (of 157):​

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4.4.1 Smokeless tobacco products​

4.4.2 Electronic nicotine delivery systems, including electronic cigarettes​

Worse, in my canuck province of Québec it's quite obvious such document even inspired plain socio-toxic (immature/irresponsible with no accountability) prohibitionist ideology in the obtuse mind of Lucie Charlebois, ex-Liberal minister for "Rehab, Youth Protection & Public Health" who openly admitted being personally involved (read "BIASED"!!):

[ http:// cqct.qc.ca/Documents_docs/DOCU_2015/MEMO_15_08_31_CSSS_PL44_Annexe.pdf ]​

Projet de loi no44, Loi visant à renforcer la lutte contre le tabagisme​

So her final 2015 bill titled "Act to bolster tobacco control" ended up denying HR value while paving the way to Trudeau's eventual "Légaleezation" reform on cannabis (federally voted 3 years later)... Meanwhile she officially extended Québec's legal definition by « considering electronic cigarettes to be tobacco », literally: e.g. « electronic cigarettes and any other devices of that nature that are put to one’s mouth to inhale any substance that may or may not contain nicotine ».

In other words if there was going to be any publicly-funded research then its purpose could only focus on further mis-guided 3rd-party interference rejecting fairness and rational reason. By chance, if i may say so, it's the citizens of USA who paid the ultimate price for such bigotry kind of early.

☠⚰

Most self-serving politicans are just like that, it's all too easy for them to mute criticism by delegating non-elected gurus outside our public democratic institutions, by setting in advance central topics during a pseudo-consultation in order to impose solutions solving their very own mediatic/political problems instead of genuinely dealing whith superior matters as Public Health...



As far as i'm concerned one fundamental challenge is to account for the needs of all future ex-smokers themselves, which is to reduce/eliminate toxicity of course, yet not at the cost of rudimentary respect for those most concerned: the users. Although it may sound like some cautionary decision to ban "flavours" i ain't convinced that's an optimal strategy considering it could provide "bio-feeback" hints required by an individual to avoid consumption mishaps, briefly put IMO operator errors eventually invite the development of habit disorders. Not to mention e-Cigs don't come with metered dosing as these depend on visible monster clouds to boost sales, on the contrary.

As an ex-smoker myself i must admit having quit tobacco smoking in the mid-nineties, though i continued to smoke cannabis products until nearly a dozen years ago. Consequently i'm in no position to comment in detail on nicotine alternatives, on another hand i can certainly share my views on pro-cannabic inhalation being a vaporist since 2011.

In addition, thanks to internet i gradually acquired sufficient perspective allowing me to better understand how precious mother Nature's gift proves to be:

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These are known as trichome glands, they stand on top of a capillary stem forming the characteristic "frosty" layer covering calixes collected in clusters within female "flowers". The top row illustrates a fair bargain while down under that's an obvious result of "Tumbling", a vilifying mechanical process that raises the vegetal substrate to trichome glands ratio.

Primordial substances synthesized organically by the plant happen to be infusing vegetal tissue besides potential contaminants, dame Nature's unique legacy is the most cost-efficient filtration imaginable as it conveniently separates the flower's noble secretions on a molecular basis! Hence my adoption of a simple rule since i realized the actual value of such natural packaging: to follow "The Shortest Path of Lesser Transformation", to avoid as much potential vilification vectors as practically possible.

...

That's why i'm continuously targeting the trichome's gland "contact surface" in pulse mode rather than just put it all in a black box hoping for the best after turning up some thermostatic heat. This alternate orientation of mine accounts for the most fundamental fact that heat never propagates instantly in matter, which involves a diffusion delay combined to "parasitic" dispertion itself better described as wasted heat, or just "cooking"... In other words i depend on a sudden heat pulse to "Release" noble molecules ready to leave the gland's surface, using a convective heat vector as the "Transport Agent". Doing so translates as minimal energy waste considering the "fumet" immediately moves away from a bowl's transitional heat burst. Even better, the heat wave is closely followed by fresh air, effectively purging wasted heat once the intended extraction has been performed - and that's not all: using a Hybrid Core i'm able to "quanticize" the amount of heat in a single burst on the basis of temporary storage temperature, mass and thermal characteristics:

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A major by-product effect of "Micro-Bursting" resides in less baking, or enhanced "conservation" because wasting has been limited before and after convective extraction, which in turn offers improved aroma/taste appreciation in exchange for less cheater opacity fueled by not-so-noble substances impregnating vegetal tissue.

So, in conclusion, such consumption method focussed on trichome glands gets seriously compromized (if not defeated!) by "Tumbled Weed" exactly, confirming my preference to keep extraction as direct as suitable, e.g. without excess intermediary steps if i can help it.

Ultimately i envision "pen" style applications where the "Heat Charge" gets delivered in a toke-by-toke fashion to extend battery life. My crude evaluation of it revolves around ~100 Joules or so, maybe less, maybe even a lot less. Go figure... By matching such "Packetized" heat "bubble" to its task there shouldn't be enough wasted heat left inside a bowl to represent much of threat that can't be safely addressed using a simple cotton filter, for example. The basic question being: how many Joules are necessary to "atomize" a single trichome gland? A bowl?? Then by extension, how many Joule packets can be delivered per battery charge?...

Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[thujone]

Ultimately i envision "pen" style applications where the "Heat Charge" gets delivered in a toke-by-toke fashion to extend battery life.

That's how my current vape (Pulsar APX v2) works. When it's on, it's just on standby, and taking draws off it activates the heat. The battery is 1600mAh so basically it's a typical AA.

I don't think it's possible to get any smaller or more efficient than this when it comes to dry herb vaping, which is inherently less efficient than coil vaping. I usually average about 5 sessions before needing to recharge and I usually just charge it until it's >80%

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations ThujOne,

That's how my current vape (Pulsar APX v2) works.

Hummm... That's a statement i can't comment with confidence as i must admit despite hours of browsing i still don't know what's inside, though i figure the secret(s) may be revealed in a couple years if lucky. So far what i seen were hints of a ceramic bowl terminated with metal screens, being unable to determine what's behind. So, maybe the thermal "catapult" effect is possible after all, but considering the duration of heating cycles i can reasonably presume wasted heat compares proportionaletly. My SiC Font Puck turns dim-red in 2 ~ 3 seconds, this vape-like device is said to be ready in as much as 10 times later, depending on its thermostatic target setting... Consequently even if i can't dispute the opinion that this is equivalent or close to my "Micro-Bursting" approach i'd expect further improvements remain probable.

In any case it sure sounds like a more desirable alternative to the Volcano, not to mention it's most affordable. Yet reviews vary a lot, some owners refer to moutpiece discomfort, others maintenance issues.

The battery is 1600mAh... I don't think it's possible to get any smaller or more efficient than this when it comes to dry herb vaping, which is inherently less efficient than coil vaping.

Perhaps someday i can hope to get the last word on IH-driven Dry Herb vaporization but i must agree that "vaping"/"e-Liquids" probably help to rationalize the energy budget, though it's also synonymous of "cooking" near the contact-surface of a coil which translates as intense conduction-mode vilification to me. Actually i came to envision a scenario where both concentration and inhalation can be performed separately by the users themselves after adapting that same Hybrid Core scenario of mine: at 1st i'd try to only "Release"/"Transport" the noble molecules so these are condensed inside a capsule for later use, hence the energy budget for this task alone can be assumed to depend on a domestic power-grid (at home); then "Activation"/"Atomization" and delivery could be performed at a later time where battery autonomy is essential for real portability. Doing so has a bright side as it implies there's no longer a middle-man to trash the final experience and that's one other reason why i find it's also important to cut potential "baking"/"cooking" in a practical way, via "Pulse Heating" IMO.

I usually average about 5 sessions before needing to recharge and I usually just charge it until it's >80%

We can appreciate the contribution and even understand your reserves. Also to be honest i'd remove all vegetal substrate to deal only with trichome glands for improved efficiency, though perhaps at the cost of a richer spectrum. Anyway how difficult is it to: #1) freeze; #2) dessicate; #3) shake; #4) then filter by size... Rendering the workload even more predictable, hopefully!



Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Has anyone ever tried vapeing/vaping opium solutions, Roxanol 100, Dilaudid HP and so forth yet?

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Is it mainly people with financial interests in smoking cessation products screeching about this? I know that the medical community knows that nicotine is not what causes the cancer and put co-ordinated disinformation, which makes less sense. It is chemicals formed by burning the leaves that are much more strongly co-ordinated. Maybe the medical community is concerned about recalcitrant ex-smokers or people kicking the habit because of cancer found anywhere in the body going back to smoking when they feel rotten.

E-cigarettes would help those folks as I am sure they already know Nicotine is indeed one of the more difficult to manage physical habituations for those trying to quit for quite a few people -- I used to be a chemical-effect smoker of tobacco and also used it as a substrate for smoking opium in a regular wooden pipe; back then there were no over the counter aids to quit and the prescription ones were all over the place effectiveness . . . I got an old time vapouriser back then and used it in place of a pipe for tobacco when I was at home (it was a large device) because I knew what the chemistry of the whole thing is, but I was glad to be off of it because nicotine is rather toxic, full scale withdrawal is almost singularly awful --though Shabu smokers have told me that theirs was even worse. Narcotics start a metabolic hourglass over one's head, but nicotine is a Sword of Damocles in my experience. Luckily there do seem to be people who have a better time of it, and even non-habituated smokers . . I started out as one back when I was taking several anticholinergics and having trouble with morning hangover and maybe fogging my memory on occasion. It was after discovering a potentiating effect on thebacon and hydrocodone that I started smoking twice or three times a day . . . I am thinking that carbon monoxide and nicotine may have Cytochrome P450 effects since the effect is not as stark as with morphine.

 

[thujone]

Hummm... That's a statement i can't comment with confidence as i must admit despite hours of browsing i still don't know what's inside, though i figure the secret(s) may be revealed in a couple years if lucky. So far what i seen were hints of a ceramic bowl terminated with metal screens, being unable to determine what's behind. So, maybe the thermal "catapult" effect is possible after all, but considering the duration of heating cycles i can reasonably presume wasted heat compares proportionaletly. My SiC Font Puck turns dim-red in 2 ~ 3 seconds, this vape-like device is said to be ready in as much as 10 times later, depending on its thermostatic target setting... Consequently even if i can't dispute the opinion that this is equivalent or close to my "Micro-Bursting" approach i'd expect further improvements remain probable.

I'm guessing it's a simple battery-thermistor-load circuit with some extra features, first the crucible heats up to a set temperature then the circuit reactivates when air moving past the element causes the temperature to drop. That's just my guess but it's how I would do it (especially if simple and cheap is the goal)

In any case it sure sounds like a more desirable alternative to the Volcano, not to mention it's most affordable. Yet reviews vary a lot, some owners refer to moutpiece discomfort, others maintenance issues.

Yes, I switched to this from the HerbalAire, which was a convection party vape like the Volcano. The crucible on the APX is much smaller, really only suitable for one person to have a session. I find maintenance to be fairly easy. When I was in the pot shop the other day I saw the price was down to $70 (used to be $90) so it's a radical change from the older vapes in price, and quality is also pretty good.

Perhaps someday i can hope to get the last word on IH-driven Dry Herb vaporization but i must agree that "vaping"/"e-Liquids" probably help to rationalize the energy budget, though it's also synonymous of "cooking" near the contact-surface of a coil which translates as intense conduction-mode vilification to me. Actually i came to envision a scenario where both concentration and inhalation can be performed separately by the users themselves after adapting that same Hybrid Core scenario of mine: at 1st i'd try to only "Release"/"Transport" the noble molecules so these are condensed inside a capsule for later use, hence the energy budget for this task alone can be assumed to depend on a domestic power-grid (at home); then "Activation"/"Atomization" and delivery could be performed at a later time where battery autonomy is essential for real portability. Doing so has a bright side as it implies there's no longer a middle-man to trash the final experience and that's one other reason why i find it's also important to cut potential "baking"/"cooking" in a practical way, via "Pulse Heating" IMO.

Didn't we discuss something like using a humidifier? I saw recently a portable humidifier and thought about this, but I'm not sure how it would work with condensed vapour. Does all the THC even stay in the condensed vapour? THC starts to become more hydrophobic as temperature drops, IIRC...

Good day, have fun!! ☮

Likewise!

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Nicomorphinist,
Salutations ThujOne,

Has anyone ever tried vapeing/vaping opium solutions, Roxanol 100, Dilaudid HP and so forth yet?

It's a surprizing question in terms of different substance habits but i suppose in principle no-smoke inhalation still has a major healthwise edge over combustion. Yet i launched this thread to comment on aspects of "vaping" which i believe to require some major conceptual reform after it tragically failed to protect consumers. Mainly i wish to offer different perspectives on "metered dosing", conversion to convective heat and sessions sharing (including support for a training tool).

Is it mainly people with financial interests in smoking cessation products screeching about this?

As an ex-tobacco smoker opposed to mis-guided 3rd-party prohibitionist interference i refuse to take position against alternative nicotine delivery modes like stamps or gum, nor safer inhalation - not to mention the later option also involves a ritual dimension. To me "Harm Reduction" ain't just limited to seeking abstainance. which i wouldn't exclude neither considering nicotine does cause a true addiction.

As far as i'm concerned the "vaping deaths" crisis points an accusating finger at greed-driven middle-men while i'd also blame intense "cooking" from conduction heat compounded with a desire for "monster clouds". So, naturally the addition of THC to such scenarios is bound to invite agravated abusive patterns as a result of "tolerance" build-up, hence i can reasonably expect this to escalate towards overloading the transfer capacity of our human alveolar/bloodstream system - which is the opposite of a habit cessasion in any case!

...first the crucible heats up...

That's my 1st impression as well, although the mix of heating modes may feel satisfying it's still quite likely an oven where "Release", "Transport" and "Activation" all occur simultaneously. In comparison my proposal is to proceed in separate steps, which should allow adjustment of the last phase depending on a desired cannabic stream profile, for example:

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In this configuration the auxiliary Hybrid Core behaves both as a self-cleaning filter and also possibly a post-vaporization cannabinoïds activator...



At least it's not as intense as a 200 Watts sub-Ohm coil operating in conduction mode, though i can't tell if that's providing answers to Nicomorphinist, while i was hoping others could offer him more appropriate hints of solution - preferably elsewhere if it must focus on other substances than cannabis instead of HR delivery dosing.

...I switched to this from the HerbalAire...

Yeah, mine has been picking up dust too, because of the irresistible coughing and other discomfort it caused me, which ruined the whole experience and it's not because the device ain't doing what it's built for: just an inapropriate solution addressing the wrong problem... YMMV!

The crucible on the APX is much smaller, really only suitable for one person to have a session. I find maintenance to be fairly easy.

At 300 mg its bowl capacity is probably equivalent to 2 "joints", which is a generous amount. Anyway it's not impossible those who complain over its maintenance simply ain't disciplined enough, revealing unrealistic consumerist "push-button" expectatives while dealing with a resinous herb... New consumers don't always benefit from our legacy memories!

Perhaps it's got some "bursting" aspect to it that i wouldn't suspect. "Plan-B" is only approximative and operator skills remain a significant factor, yet i'm tied by my organism's preference for Inlet Water and there's no substitute offer on the market so far. Without it i find no incentive to personally engage into any Hot Dry Air spiral quest again, but i'm sure the younger members wouldn't mind!

Didn't we discuss something like using a humidifier?

Indeed, 1st using cold fog then steam cooled in a sort of bubbler. Both paved the way to abuse after a week or so...

:giggle:

I saw recently a portable humidifier and thought about this, but I'm not sure how it would work with condensed vapour. Does all the THC even stay in the condensed vapour? THC starts to become more hydrophobic as temperature drops...

Those are relevant questions i couldn't find clear/precise answers for! What i understood from my post-vaporization "conditioning" experiments was that it promptly inspired serious health concerns relative to a need for systematic maintenance, worried by the risk from eventual pathogens promoted by a semi-closed warm/moist environment...

That's why i switched from a simple HA-based nebulizer to a complex steam-generating setup using an Arizer V-Tower:

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At the time i was satisfied that burning-hot steam would keep part of the system relatively clean, yet practice showed i still had to pamper with it more than i cared to... Eventually my "FogBong!" approach was symbolized like this:

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One important detail here was that gravity combined to surface tension implemented an aerial valve resulting from steam condensation as it would create a droplet inside the cannabic path, directly above a tiny bottom aperture allowing sufficiently precise moisturizing adjustment at the mixing site (*); my nebulizer and Arizer setups being a lot more approximative...



In comparison extra-hot exhaust gases from clean-burning butane generate a suitable amount of Inlet Water (besides carbonic gas and "impurities") in a most convenient portable, brain-dead manner that mostly cured the couphing issue while only requiring normal maintenance. Further adjusments eventually led to an addition of fresh-air injection right above my VG bowl which practically fixed it ever since; in retrospective that's some total relief that necessitated obcessive tweaks over a period of ~6 years but i don't regret it, quite on the contrary.

Actually i feel like i must thank you for this fine opportunity to time-travel as it reminds me it's already been done before, just not yet...

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Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[Thomas Davie]

Ok, now I’m curious. One of your infographics states ‘moisture added to dry Cannabicvapor but no water washing ever takes place over there’.
Do you mean that no filtration takes place?

thanks

Tom

 

[Egzoset]

Hi there!

Ok, now I’m curious.

Excellent, curiosity feels most appealing to me!!

...no water washing ever takes place over there’.

True, and i appreciate your input because this will help me to explain it better - and even close the loop!

(y)

Do you mean that no filtration takes place?

Indeed, ZERO water filtration, to be exact - though cotton filtration could still occur at a later step, which is crucial as a complement to the biofeedback + session logging scenario (because that's actually a chemical sample meant to be optionally paired in a database for later valorization in a training/"social" application):

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About 7 years ago warm-hot Steam arrived via the left-side tube and penetrated under liquid water where its mixing site (on the snapshot above) is marked with a red elongated circle (lower-right corner). Notice this red shape corresponds to the tip of a teflon straw, barely visible behind the glass i must admit. Anyway as i recall it wasn't an easy setup considering it required sufficient pressure to burst steam through the liquid water, then reach the main cavity by "bubbling" through cold water so it removes part of the residual heat efficiently, while my right-side tube allowed "noble molecules" from a cannabic "fumet" to enter without much resistance, never even getting close to pass through the liquid's surface at all, hence only making contact with moisturized air captured above it:

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More residual heat was removed by virtue of gas expansion promoted by the relatively large mixing cavity.

This proved optimal in terms of aroma/taste as any form of filtration interfered with it, yet such qualitative gain could be thought to compensate for an eventual cotton addition (if a flexible PVC Tubing Extension was attached, to add an Optical Probe, for example)...

Although this felt safer in terms of germs i still found this other adjustment method more convenient:

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YouTube: HerbalAire Experiments (Fog Mixing Site)​

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The noise it made in synchronism with my sipping actions added some biofeedback dimension which would have been most entertaining if combined to a multicolour/dancing light show! In retrospective i wish i could have shared the fun with more visuals, 'cause that was solid fun (so to speak)...



Now here's why your input was most appreciated:

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Ain't that the opposite of "portable"?? ... Sure it is. And that's where convective heat needs to merge with e-Liquid technology IMHO!

Otherwise practical/convenient Inlet Water probably CANNOT exist in a true/realistic Portable e-Cigarette format, while i believe it can be implemented using a "DeLuxe" configuration of my Near-Symetrical "LAVACapsule" concept i made compatible with distilled water or e-Liquid:

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The 4 corner SiC Foam bodies are where i'd add a pair of auxiliary e-Liquid Boilers/Evaporators, most fortunately very little moisture needs to be generated each time a toke is extracted...

Hence IH-power injection may suffice to activate TC0 Curie alloys, ideally. Which i'd test @ 135 °C hoping it's OKay for transitional Pre-Heating purposes too.

Another feature of this layout is the 90 degrees change of direction of both its convective heat vectors, as these become transversal in the exact center of a bowl. That's expected to have a "defocuss" effect able to reduce "hot spotting" and consequently "baking" as well.



Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[thujone]

In comparison extra-hot exhaust gases from clean-burning butane generate a suitable amount of Inlet Water (besides carbonic gas and "impurities") in a most convenient portable, brain-dead manner that mostly cured the couphing issue while only requiring normal maintenance. Further adjusments eventually led to an addition of fresh-air injection right above my VG bowl which practically fixed it ever since; in retrospective that's some total relief that necessitated obcessive tweaks over a period of ~6 years but i don't regret it, quite on the contrary.

Ahh now it's all clear. So you finally settled on the butane solution because it provides both the heat and extra vapour. So then the SiC puck lets the vapour through but blocks enough of the flame's heat that the green is only exposed to vapourization temps?

 

[LordFran]

Hi Egzoset! Nice to see you around these parts brother as always great post on vaping weed.

Just to let anyone know, nicotine is linked with cancer, as people who chew tobacco also get cancer. This is because tobacco is straight up a poison, its not just the combustion. In fact if I were to drink or eat tobacco I would die.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations ThujOne,
Salutations LordFran,

Ahh now it's all clear. So you finally settled on the butane solution because it provides both the heat and extra vapour. So then the SiC puck lets the vapour through but blocks enough of the flame's heat that the green is only exposed to vapourization temps?

Indeed clean-burning butane provides something essential to me which i don't get otherwise, that's why i paid attention not to block evolution towards an eventual butane-less design transition that remains compatible even with "purist" expectations as a bonus... My referal to Inlet Water is because it gets injected on the input side simultaneously to a torch's energy captured from its corona - and since this implies extra-hot exhaust gases as H2O and CO2 then it also presumably translates into more energy transport than if using Hot Dry Air alone (as with my HerbalAire). Without such restriction i'd have switched to some Induction Heat conversion many years ago. That's why i believe that Dan Steinberg was extremely well inspired, if not a visionary when investigating SiC Foam and yet rejecting less-defined more affordable variants to favour this most particular "tetrakaidecahedron" quality-layout instead:

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Such SiC foam juxtaposes 2 inter-penetrating systems, one is a matrix of solid SiC branches with exceptional thermal conductivity while in zero-airflow idle mode the other is practically equivalent to an insulator spread as a multitude of air pockets, with a twist: they're massively networked together, so to speak. Consequently its base-material proves most suitable considering Inlet Water passes through it without reacting chemically despite being red-hot, though certainly exchanging/transforming heat physically with that foam's enormous contact-surface, but much slower than convective mode allows...

Extra vapour or more precisely improved extraction efficiency appears to be linked to this H2O + CO2 exhaust that i associated to some "potentialization" effect, by raising specific heat capacity compaired to air which defines unity. This edge combined to a pair of very contrasted states corresponds to what i labelled as "Micro-Bursting", reasoning this is inviting a less approximative "Packetization" possibly reducing unproductive/residual heating between pulse mode extractions. Then condensation occurs before the cotton filter is reached, with the concentration of carbonic gas tamed down by implementing 2 ~ 4 "PinHoles" along the path, to mix my fumet with a tiny amount of fresh air each time. The only real potential for nuisance comes from the "impurities" from a butane can and lighter, which is why i foresaw distilled water (or maybe e-Liquid) as a substitute, to maintain the same Inlet Water features.

"Plan-B" is a "Micro-Bursting" approximation if we agree that during its "Pre-Heating" phase it's not possible to turn my SiC Front Puck dim-red unless there's sufficient airflow, though kept at a minimum ideally. That's where the transitional properties of SiC Branches + Air Pockets prove so precious as it delays convection heat just a tiny bit, blocks a fair amount of radiative heat emanating from the torch flame, while involving little conduction mode. Injection of fresh air mixes in above the bowl to make VG's pipe operable by practically any ex-smoker. That was my last "tweek" before i changed from wood tops to full-metal setups.

Then again some evolutionary path(s) must be kept viable, for example:

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Both butane and induction modes must coexist at least in principle, although the mass ratio between a capsule's bowl and susceptor pair have little significance in "Plan-B" this can become a major asset for "Plan-A" as it allows the bowl to behave as a flux concentrator while dispersing excess heat, not to mention the mass ratio falls to about 2 % once installed in Full-Metal tops... The promise here is a skin-safe system that remains friendly even for visually-impared users, even those with only 1 hand, because the susceptors are expected to reach their target temperature long before the massive assembly around them has time to heat up to a problematic level.

In this scenario temperature sets the temporary energy storage capacity meant to match a bowl's weight in shredded cannabis, more specifically its trichomes based on relative mass and sizes. But to work it must be powered in pulse mode as slow/steady thermostatic heating lasting 2~3 minutes (as in the Volcano) would require extra counter-measures, which is like hot-spotting inside the Hybrid Cores though intentional...

Being electromagnetic in nature zero airflow is perfectly acceptable so now the bowl's top is facing SiC Foam partly behaving like an insulator on that side while it's slowly charged by the radiative component once its susceptor(s) got "saturated" (using Curie alloys if possible) on the core side. This allows a Pre-Heating phase which contrary to that of "Plan-B" no longer implies the parasitic heat transfer i associate with an approximative implementation, too bad the addition of Inlet Water/e-Liquid clearly appears like something i may never manage to experience (it's too involving a challenge!), hence my motivation to tweak butane mode to perfection as that's all i can stand so far anyway. "Plan-A" probably requires too much resources for a single man while VaporGenie ain't never showed much interest, so either i stick with what works for me now or i better just abstain as i see no other viable substitutes to inhalation.

In any case the energy transformation process is beyong my capacity to grasp in proper thermodynamic terms. At most i'd compare the concept to a series-connected resistor causing a drop of current in presence of parallel parasitics, with RC delays compounding into some pulse-stretching circuit: going from intense/short to not-so-intense and not-so-short, but yet nothing like VG's original slow/steady ritual as recommended for yellow flames, euh... But i fear i've gone way too wild already, so please put it on the account of enthousiasm!

:giggle:

Nice to see you around these parts brother...

There's enough repent ex-smokers who'd show no nuanced perspectives nor sympathy for others no different from the people i used to belong with. My bet is it's more stimulating to reflect on HR alternatives, not to mention in the mid-nineties nobody had e-Cig "cessation" tools on the radar...

Just to let anyone know, nicotine is linked with cancer, as people who chew tobacco also get cancer.

It's not really a determining factor to me because as far as i'm concerned that's still for the users asking for removal of toxicity to decide if the deal suits them more than combustion. When all smokers are done with rolling paper i doubt manufacturers shall wish to continue production trying to target minors... It's for the adults to decide and i got plenty of very old smokers around me who wouldn't allow interference, especially now that they've heard about "vaping deaths" - which is a Public Health failure in itself!

It may be impossible to "help" youth directly but i think respectfully-treated adults might be a best 2nd option on the long term.

...if I were to drink or eat tobacco I would die.

Please don't! I can understand the human tendency to follow & emulate but we're no lemmings!...

Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[thujone]

that foam is beautiful I'm starting to see now how the burst vaping is feasible by leveraging the properties of this foam and the butane. I'm thinking of how this could be done electronically, maybe with some capacitors connected to the SiC for burst heat and a small atomizer/mister spraying distilled water into it for vapour.

 

[Egzoset]

Hi there ThujOne,

That foam is beautiful...

And i presume it's relatively safe too, being aware that there are much less performant processes where aerial paths contain SiC "whiskers", quite too reminescent of asbestos IMO: e.g. with numerous microscopic needles potentially on the loose (never forget the extreme operating conditions may result in cracks from thermal stress!)... In comparison it seems obvious to me that Dan Steinberg was careful enough to deal with such critial issue right from the start, by selecting this space-age material/process exactly:

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And of course it's only reasonable to expect structural improvements in the future, while self-regulation of temperature within the material itself should further reduce any residual risk of cracking far below the present safety level. Not to mention the use of cotton filtering down the path, which gets increasingly moist & sticky with every toke...

I'm starting to see now how the burst vaping is feasible by leveraging the properties of this foam and the butane.

Yes, although butane-compatibility remains a desirable feature (as a valid "Bi-Energy" fall-back option) i find it would be more accurate to associate SiC Foam with its super-hot exhaust gases H2O + CO2 both assuming a role of "Release/Transport Potentiator", besides plain Self-Moisturization - or eventually only distilled H2O and no other additives... Possibly even e-Liquid substitutes if such trade-off helps resolve challenges imposed by the e-Cigs format.



The juxtaposition awaited practical implementation since the original patent was registered, a couple years after Y2K:

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My actual contribution being to reconfigure it as a temporary "Thermal Bottle" simply made of a 3-Layers sandwich:

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With a (dotted-line) Brass Screen Wrap as the 4th optional element which has proven quite resilient/reliable as a mechanical support of the Top-of-Bowl SiC Puck while it helped to dissipate ("defocuss") heat radially, mainly to delay hot-spotting of a bowl during a "Plan-B" Pre-Heat cycle i would say...

As you can envision the transition between ZERO-airflow IH-driven Pre-Heating vs Convective (AirFlow) Release/Transport can be reasonably assumed to happen faster than ever before, followed by Heat Purging of comparable bursting nature if the bowl is ceramic instead of a metal oven... E.G. that's "Pulse Heating" indeed and here's the reward:

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#2: « Rapid heating prevents from secondary reaction and decomposition. »

I'm thinking of how this could be done electronically, maybe with some capacitors connected to the SiC for burst heat and a small atomizer/mister spraying distilled water into it for vapour.

Extra-hot gases present in the corona of a clean-burning butane (torch) flame are a lot hotter than ordinary steam, so it may require an auxiliary Boiler/Evaporator of extended length/capacity and presumably some method to deal with a quick gaseous expansion, though the amount only represents a fraction of the Hot Dry Air volume to be used.



I must accept this is uncharted domain, excepted now that i re-read your comment more attentively i remember visiting a manufacturer of industrial IH-drivers who's web site used to offer an on-line "calculator" and it did list "Silicon Carbide" among many other candidates for a susceptor application:

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The VG SiC Foam pellets i got are definitely NOT conductive, yet this menu shown above feels like a strong hint suggesting that "doped" SiC Foam may happen to be conductive enough for induction's "skin effect" to occur. Consequently each individual air pocket would be contained within an array of doped SiC filament heaters (and there are so many of them!), which sounds ideal in a purist context if we can assume the doping agent won't get leached over time - with NO metal required anymore, as a bonus. So perhaps only 1 single SiC puck will do, if not then a Hybrid Core with non-conductive SiC Foam for the edges and doped SiC Foam in the center...

Go figure, it may even support "dabbing" directly on it! Or it could be filled with trichome glands around the surfaces, etc.

In any case i'm most satisfied if my text and illustrations could convey sufficient meaning to inspire a closer definition of what i label as "Bursting", with its "Micro" prefix refering to "Dosing" that results from matching a Heat Charge to its WorkLoad, by virtue of a core's specific heat capacity, mass and temperature... Ideally using self-regulation of the ceiling temperature as in Curie alloys to adjust energy-storage capacity accordingly, etc.

Your support making this dialog possible is being well appreciated! (y)

Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[Egzoset]

P.S.:

...maybe with some capacitors connected to the SiC for burst heat...

It makes me feel sorry that i couldn't find a more appropriate angle relatively to capacitors but the idea of some parallel to be made between slingshots and catapults slowly started to hunt me the moment i cared to check with an on-line calculator about how many Joules could realistically be expected to get stored in commercially-available capacitors.

Initially 2 scenarios emerged rapidly: #1) using a high-current capacitor to heat conductive SiC Foam (like a resistive heater element); #2) using a high-voltage capacitor to directly strip vegetal surfaces with electrostatic discharges. Then i couldn't pick any of those 2 strategies because SiC Foam is too brittle to establish a strong-enough power contact, while bombarding calixes and leaves with high-voltage sparks poses the question of denaturation: wouldn't it also burn the precious trichome glands besides just releasing them into the airflow?

Yet your proposal seemed naturally logic considering there are car audio capacitors with storage capacities up to 10 Farads @ 16 ~ 18 Volts peak indeed... So, using only 5 Volts (to gain some margin) this still represents 125 Joules, or 720 joules @ 12 Volts...

Obviously the problem isn't insoluble if a table device will do, but then how does it convert eletrical Joules into thermal ones for a convective application??

After all sudden energy release is something capacitors are already good at. I'll try to remember that.

Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[Thomas Davie]

Egzoset; you have an engineering background? Or math.

Anyways, I was wondering if you are experimenting with different conductive materials and/or insulators. Although frightfully expensive, you can buy 30cm x 30cm x 1 cm slabs of aerogels (different kinds with different properties). I think of that mainly because in your setups, or what I have seen so far w/regards to heat as a power source.

This may prove of no use - but the science fiction lover in me hopes it does.

http://www.buyaerogel.com/

Yes, this is a link to a commercial site, but this is pure future here.

Tom

 

[Egzoset]

Hi there Thomas Davie!

Egzoset; you have an engineering background? Or math.

As a matter of fact it's never been part of Egzoset's central motivations to invest in credentials except to argue that practically anyone with sufficient drive could easily DUPLICATE & PEER REVIEW successive experiments which i specifically designed to only require basic skills + relatively humble resources, most of those found in local stores ideally.

But if i must get personal then lets just say i was born in an era when knowledge could be shared openly enough for enthousiast persons to build their own radio in a garage and even learn from it if they cared to, etc., etc... So, briefly put part of the character likes to mock in parody some past attempts (seen elsewhere) trying to impress an audience without really giving much in return, on boards that eventually vanished in most cases. Truth is my purpose ain't to generate confusion just because of such a stylish envelope, though i also find important to get satisfaction from doing my best in the process.



As i explained in previous occasions, Egzoset's "opportunity window" finally past a long while ago and i was aware it would happen right from the begining.

...I was wondering if you are experimenting with different conductive materials and/or insulators.

I certainly wish! Yet my time has past and i rarely get more chances to progress in what i've launched this summer, which can be visually concatenated like this:

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That's one "to-do" list and it's been months already. So it seems increasingly unlikely that my future demonstrations shall prove so spectacular it might inspire e-Cig users who agressively rejected all other arguments as a block, both on ECF and VU... Imagine if i were to get my hands on aerogels, unable to even evaluate its food-safe status! But i still share your intuition and optimism.

(y)

The goal of my present thread was to simply offer alternatives, for example to replace shady middlemen by performing Pulse-mode extraction/concentration directly at home using "bio" nuggets from the garden, possibly separating the early phase(s) from inhalation-time "Activation"/"Atomization". Another HR aspect was the idea of "BioFeedback" coupled with chemical analysis of cotton samples, to create a database that could supply data to newbie "learning tools", to help avoid acquiring a bad habit (centered on monster clouds...) before it's too late for a person to appreciate more nuanced models. Not to mention this would have prevented/attenuated the "vaping deaths" crisis which may threaten to cost enthousiasts much more than a redesigned atomizer...

...the science fiction lover in me hopes...

Then we're in perfect synchronicity, except i wouldn't be surprized to read nor hear it's already been done before, just not yet!



Good day, have fun!! ☮

 

[w01fg4ng]

"vaping deaths"

Why is this in quotes?

Also why do you want to ban coils?

 

[Egzoset]

Why, why so many questions??

 

[thujone]

good analysis of the metals, with regards to burst heating the SiC foam or similar structured metal, it occurs to me another consideration is not just thermal conductivity but also how prone the metal *and* structural makeup is to cracking under routine hot-cold cycling.

It was just a spur-of-the-moment suggestion to link the capacitors directly to the element, possibly a better alternative is to sheath the crucible in a layer of inert metal suited to handle rapid temperature cycling, at a tolerance where thermal expansion brings it gently into contact with the element to transfer heat to it. The sheath could handle being zapped with a higher current (i.e. supercapacitor) and the peak temperature could be modulated by adding metal mass to wick away any excess heat. Maybe it would even be feasible to have stackable shims that the user can add to the sheath specifically to control the temperature range of the heat bursts.

I'm not sure I see how the bit on pyrolysis fits into the picture here. The graphic states the use case being the formation of smaller molecules to enable better GC/MS analysis, but how useful is this for THC? AFAIK THC forced to undergo pyrolysis (vacuum decarboxylation) goes through the same reaction as traditional oxygen-free decarboxylation (i.e. heating THC in fats for edibles), which is THCA -> delta-9-THC.

Have you experimented with IH? It seems somewhat difficult to control in terms of temperature precision. Funny thing though, this all reminds me of railguns, where the magnetic field is controlled by supercapacitor bursts