I have to say, after tapering down the suboxone in 8 days and then switching to vitamine c for 7 days, I didn't have withdrawals if I dosed correctly. I used kratom starting with 10-15g per day and quickly reduced it to 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1. But now I do start to feel withdrawals (after not touching sub for 3 weeks and no heroin/oxy for more than 1 month). I wonder if it's the suboxone withdrawals, or just the kratom dependency that took over. It's more like having no energy at all, and if I take 1g of kratom, i'm good for 2 hours. Then I just suffer through the day, take clonidine 0.05mg for a 4-6 hr sleep but wake up after that, groggy but unable to sleep.
The short duration of kratom makes it annoying to "taper". I know it sounds weird, but would 0.5mg suboxone for 2/3 days help to assist with completelly quitting, or just suffer through the days?
I do go for 5k runs on 1.5g kratom, and feel great afterwards for 7 hours, but then my sleep seems even more distorted.
I also have some naltrexone and if I could take that to speed things up in 1 day with bad withdrawals, I would take it, but that's probably not how it works. I'd probably suffer much longer
Anyway, I also have benoz's available. If anybody has any tips how to jump of 1g kratom with at least some energie to work, happy to hear
It absolutely does ruin the taper, if you’re tapering down, then your body is eliminating receptors, if you use a higher dosage or more than you should/need to, then your body will create more opioid receptors, therefore you will need to use more, ruining any tapering you did. That’s the science behind building tolerance, why you physically need more.
I recently tapered down to less than a bag a day and then slipped up for a day, I got drunk, and did like 6-8 bags, it completely screwed me up, after I had to use at least 5 a day until I managed to taper down to 2-3 before giving up and switching back to suboxone.
I had initially switched to opiates, after deciding to use for fun, to taper off of that and try to stop altogether, cause I’ve been on subs for 2 1/2 years. The process was hell though, I waited 41 hours and still got PWD (precipitated withdrawals). I personally do not like continuing on subs after that, so I used to counteract the PWD. I then got a test kit and called my Dr to let them know what was going on, where I also took a urine, both to test if there was fentanyl in what I was using and sure enough it was fentanyl, which truly makes things FAR worse.
My body had created tons of receptors as a result and I have to take 16+mg of subs now, when, before I decided to use, I had tapered down to 1mg.
I do want to note that for suboxone to properly work, you’d have to take it for at least a 1-2 weeks at a proper dosage for it to really settle in and stabilize you, so if you’re going from oxy/H to subs for a week then kratom, the subs and the kratom only acted as buffers to tide you over, while also not giving the subs a chance to do it’s job, but if it helps you avoid WDs and the kratom helps you taper down as well, then that’s great, but physically the opiates and subs will have left your system and if you were using kratom for weeks, even more than just a week then you’ve passed the time that your body would’ve had WDs from opiates or subs, so that’s all kratom, but your body is also using different substances and is WD from that as a whole, but technically it would be the kratom at this point.
When I switched back this time, I considered finding something that I could use that I was certain did not have fentanyl, because illicit fentanyl can stay in your system for a very long time, it builds up over time and stores in your fat cells, it will then slowly release and fill your receptors, making the WD process take much longer than it normally does, which is why I still had PWD after 41 hours...I also wasn’t having bad WDs at all during that time, I’ve been using for 17 years and I never had such an easy time..I should’ve followed the COWs scoring system for WDs and waited until I really needed to take it...but I thought 41 hrs was more than enough time.
Anyways, I couldn’t find anything, however I spoke to my Dr about how I was going to switch over and what I wanted to do,
My Dr prescribed me 30 Oxycodone (Roxi 10s), which I took for 4 days, meanwhile I microdosed the subs, increasing my dosage everyday.
I also was prescribed a cocktail of Clonidine (helps with hot flashes and more), Gabapentin (helps with anxiety and more), Ondansetron (nausea), Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen (pains), all of which I also took for the first few days to help.
My tolerance was so high that I had to take 9 of the roxi just to feel comfortable, but I still didn’t feel high in the least bit. Afterwards i took 3 at a time 2-3 times throughout the day, the clonodine and gabapentin helped knock me out so I fortunately slept through a lot of it, the roxi def did help though and I’m REALLY glad my Dr did that for me, which apparently they do in Canada and Europe. I did have problems with my pharmacist giving it to me though, I had to explain everything to my pharmacist, while I was having WDs..not fun, it was hard to stay composed, I wanted to flip the fuck out and jump over the counter in my WD rage, haha.
The time didn’t drag on, as it does for most people who are going through WDs, but the roxi caused me to have really intense cravings, which I wasn’t mentally prepared for and nearly relapsed because of it, but I had to remind myself that I’m not doing it to get high and to just push through it. Cravings aren’t usually an issue for me when having WDs, so this was unusual for me. These are things to keep in mind for anyone who may want to go this rou
My plan is to taper off of the suboxone, over the course of the next few months, dropping my dose every 2 weeks, so I can allow my body to stabilize on the lower dose, while it rids itself of extra receptors that aren’t being filled.
Really, I never needed to get on subs in the first place, my old Dr started me on 8mg/day and suggested that I be on it for 8 years, half of the time that I used opiates, which is insane and I do not want to do, 2 1/2 years is way too long for me.
When I started taking subs, I was only using 1-2 bags or a blue 30 or 2, once or twice a week, but like clockwork, I HAD to use, I’d weirdly have light WDs if I skipped a week or tried to. I’d been using like that for about 6 months.
After using for so many years I had managed to be able to do that, but I do know that for a lot of people, it’s extremely difficult to pull that off and I did always feel like I could fall back into a full blown addiction where I’m using on a daily basis. I decided to get on subs because I have a family, things were falling apart and I needed to take care of myself.
The subs did help me though, I just maybe didn’t need to be on such a high dosage, 1mg probably would’ve been fine.
But this is manageable..I will be able to taper back down and eventually off of subs, with minimal WDs, if any at all, it’s worth it if you really want to get clean, stay clean and not stress out about how you’re going to pull it off, looking for all kinds of alternative solutions and what not.
It’s what suboxone is for. I’d suggest microdosing up, so you don’t have to take more than you need to, then staying at a comfortable dose for a couple of weeks then start tapering down, dropping
1-2mg every 2 weeks.
Also, if someone is feeling like shit still while taking subs, then they’re taking too low of a dose. If anyone takes opiates shortly AFTER taking subs, they don’t tend to feel much because subs have stronger binding properties than opioids do, even though subs are a partial agonist (covers like 60-90% of your receptors, depends on dose and how many receptors you have, again that is determined by how much you use/how many receptors your body created to host all those opioids) and opioids are full agonists (covers receptors 100%) they have weaker binding properties, which is why you’ll go into PWD if you take subs after you take opiates, the subs stronger binding rips the opioids out of the receptors and sends your body into a frenzy, complete hell, cause it thinks there’s absolutely no dopamine or opioids flowing through your body.
I microdosed while taking oxycodone to slowly build up the buprenorphine in my receptors, it was such a small amount that it did not cause PWD and I stopped taking the roxis before I got up to 1mg of subs in the day.
I’ve explained all of this because I made stupid decisions. I ruined my tapering and I had tapered down to such a low dose and it’s an example of how out of control and shitty things can get, ESPECIALLY when you’re trying to lower your tolerance or quit. It’s a bad idea.
