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Do you argue to win or to lose?

Gnostic Bishop

Gnostic Bishop

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Jun 23, 2014
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Do you argue to win or to lose?

I see many feisty debates and apologetics, with little potential for a happy conclusion and wondered what motivates us all.

Preach, teach, or learn comes to mind.

Do you want to loser arguments or win them?

Which gives you the most pleasure and pain?

Regards
DL
 
What gives me most pleasure is actually learning something, but I used to feel insecure and that had me arguing just to win.
I've never been a physically big dude, so I would see intelletual prowess as a way to show off, which is ridicoulus.
It still flares up at times, and I feel like a fucking child and feel ashamed of myself.

Nowadays, when I realize a discussion is just going in circles (arguing with natalists or religious people in an attempt to convert them), I try to just refrain and walk away.

But, now and again, when in a bad mood, I'll snap like a four year old who can't have his lollipop.
I've also been very bad at admitting "defeat" or apologizing in the past, something I consider some of my least likeable traits.

Then again, hearing someone saying some misogynist or racist shit makes me go off the handle.

I'm working on it.

How about you? You're quite the apex of discussions, what are your motivations?
 
It's more of a sociological studying process for me.
There's much about human emotion and behaviour I do not understand, so arguing with them helps me understand principles that are just hard to grasp for me, like pride, shame, devotion, political values, ethical issues, etc.

But I sort of take arguments with me wherever I go. This situation has been explained to me on multiple occasions: I once asked my aunt at the table about the texture of her afterbirth. This was very bad, the whole family stopped eating and people kept screaming at me, although I still don't understand the exact issue, I do know that was very bad, and I'm not going to do this again. That's how I learn, by pissing people off....
 
December Flower said:
It's more of a sociological studying process for me.
There's much about human emotion and behaviour I do not understand, so arguing with them helps me understand principles that are just hard to grasp for me, like pride, shame, devotion, political values, ethical issues, etc.

But I sort of take arguments with me wherever I go. This situation has been explained to me on multiple occasions: I once asked my aunt at the table about the texture of her afterbirth. This was very bad, the whole family stopped eating and people kept screaming at me, although I still don't understand the exact issue, I do know that was very bad, and I'm not going to do this again. That's how I learn, by pissing people off....
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Please put my mind at ease and tell me that the question was indeed asked for no other reason than to piss people off at the table. Otherwise I'm staying well clear of you and your posts (will be too scared)! 🤣

Unless there was some, obviously unmentioned, context to the question rooted firmly in something biological or medical! :unsure:
 
yubacity said:
I argue to win but if proved wrong I put my hands up and lose
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Agreed. And there's no shame at all in being proven wrong and admitting as such and apologizing (should an apology be necessary).

Sadly there's not too many people, not that I personally know of anyway, that'd actually come out and say "hey I was wrong". Let alone fucking apologize (if necessary).

I suppose there's some or the other study on this shit as well. In my experience anyway: only somebody that's got their shit together and has confidence in themselves is capable of admitting that they're wrong (and apologizing if necessary). To the rest it seems as though it's perceived as being a weakness and which, in most cases, actually couldn't be further from the truth.
 
dalpat077 said:
Please put my mind at ease and tell me that the question was indeed asked for no other reason than to piss people off at the table. Otherwise I'm staying well clear of you and your posts (will be too scared)! 🤣

Unless there was some, obviously unmentioned, context to the question rooted firmly in something biological or medical! :unsure:
Click to expand...
See, that's the issue with being an autist. People think you scary, because you can't understand what is OK to talk about ._:° I was really just interested, scientific curiosity.

Well, she said how much of a mess it was(her child had just been born), and my train of thought went right there and the question just popped out.

I understand that this shamed her somehow, but I'm used to being the one saying/asking things that are somehow not appropriate, even though 83% of wives are also mothers, so it should be rather normal to talk about.

You wouldn't believe me if I told you how illogical these human rules of interaction are. They drive me crazy, and somehow everybody understands it just by default. It's OK to talk about the baby, that's not disgusting.
 
December Flower said:
See, that's the issue with being an autist. People think you scary, because you can't understand what is OK to talk about ._:° I was really just interested, scientific curiosity.

Well, she said how much of a mess it was(her child had just been born), and my train of thought went right there and the question just popped out.

I understand that this shamed her somehow, but I'm used to being the one saying/asking things that are somehow not appropriate, even though 83% of wives are also mothers, so it should be rather normal to talk about.

You wouldn't believe me if I told you how illogical these human rules of interaction are. They drive me crazy, and somehow everybody understands it just by default. It's OK to talk about the baby, that's not disgusting.
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Nah. Alright. Didn't think of it that way. The way you explain it I get it and understand. And agree. And I apologize! See how easy that was? 🤣

Just caught me off guard I suppose. And I don't know anything about autism so my bad there too.

First thing that came to mind was that you had a great sense of humor (I also like pissing people off sometimes for fun). Very next thing that came to mind was Charles Manson! 🤣 Doesn't say much for me I guess. Then again: have you seen one or two of the posts around these parts? 🤣
 
I don't argue with people. The one exception is when I'm dealing with a psychopath or sociopath. The reason for this is that psychologically psychopaths and sociopaths are incapable of making and building structured relationships with empathy (obviously) therefore, in the process of arguing back at them, I'm merely just parrying their projections and such. Kind of like playing the role of being their own consciousness.

Some people will argue for the sake of having others memorize things about themselves it seems - sometimes the issues they are projecting come out passively. A classic example is the bully trying to instill fear in the hopes that he's escaping his own.

So for people who argue, I wonder... what are you escaping, running from, or trying to hide by trying to prove you're right all the time?
 
dalpat077 said:
So when you leave a room the average IQ drops by half type of thing! I get it! 🤣
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Yeah. I'm not sure how much of this is ego, but in general when I'm at work or something I usually believe I am the smartest person in the room. Wish I was joking.

The result of me being in advanced math, never studied once, constantly ditching class and eventually dropped out of highschool with a 3.86 GPA which I literally didn't try for. Ranked 48th best chess player nationally in my age group. Everyone in my life constantly telling me how smart I am. Then I had my IQ officially tested and I qualify for MENSA.

It all lead me to have a chip on my shoulder. At least I am aware of it.

Sounds negative, but for me it's beneficial. It helps me realize my self worth in a life of underachievement and failure.

If I thought I was dumb I probably would have offed myself many years ago. The gritty truth.

Intelligence is only useful if you use it anyway, which I have not.

Human traits are like pie charts. If you're higher in intelligence you are inevitably lower in other areas. There are also many types of intelligence.
 
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pulverstaden said:
What gives me most pleasure is actually learning something, but I used to feel insecure and that had me arguing just to win.
I've never been a physically big dude, so I would see intelletual prowess as a way to show off, which is ridicoulus.
It still flares up at times, and I feel like a fucking child and feel ashamed of myself.

Nowadays, when I realize a discussion is just going in circles (arguing with natalists or religious people in an attempt to convert them), I try to just refrain and walk away.

But, now and again, when in a bad mood, I'll snap like a four year old who can't have his lollipop.
I've also been very bad at admitting "defeat" or apologizing in the past, something I consider some of my least likeable traits.

Then again, hearing someone saying some misogynist or racist shit makes me go off the handle.

I'm working on it.

How about you? You're quite the apex of discussions, what are your motivations?
Click to expand...

Like you, harm reduction from religions, is high on my list of motivators.

When not focused on harm, I debate hard to win, but hope to lose debates. That is when I learn something new.

I also try to dissuade people from supernatural belief. Minds are too important to lose to that foolishness.

Regards
DL
 
December Flower said:
That's how I learn, by pissing people off....
Click to expand...

What have you learned from pissed off people, other than they do not like to be challenged?

In your psychological studies, what does your own ways tell you of your personality?

For instance; do you acknowledge a loss and accept correction?

Regards
DL
 
dalpat077 said:
it's (apologizing) perceived as being a weakness and which, in most cases, actually couldn't be further from the truth.
Click to expand...

Indeed. It shows the level of intelligence and ability to learn.

I do not think I apologize for being wrong, although I am quick to admit it when I am.

I was likely wrong due to poor information given to me before hand and it is the giver that should apologize to me.

Regards
DL
 
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