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Discussion: The Death Penalty & Capital Punishment

Pleonastic

Pleonastic

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Discussion: The Death Penalty

This topic has sprung up in the "scum of the earth" thread, and is worth it's own thread I think because a lot of people will have strong views either way.
So - The Death Penalty - Is it a good thing? Should it be brought back to Australia? What are the pros and cons?
I might put my 2c in later, but for now, the floor is yours... :)
 
All punishment should have an escape clause in the event of an error being made within the system. With standard imprisonment this usually comes in the form of a big cash settlement.
When you apply the death penalty we as a species do not have the ability to reverse it therefore it is permanent. If even one innocent person has been killed via the death penalty then the death penalty is wrong in all instances.
I would rather pay my tax dollars and send someone to prison (Permanetely if necessary) than allow for one mistake to be made.
On a slightly different point for the death penalty to be applied it takes at least one person to directly administer this punishment. This may mean pulling a lever or pushing the button on a computer but the simple fact remains that for this to occure it gives rise to governmetn sanctioned murder.
Death is Death and it cannot be reversed.
 
I am for it, on an *extremely limited* basis.
If guilt can be proved, totally and absolutely beyond doubt, there are some crimes that, in my book, deserve it.
These would include *serial* pedophiles and murderers.
 
Agrees with Airwalk, there is no room for accidents, as far as punishing the wrong person.
i don't agree with the death penalty for the simple reason being that from the criminals point of view it would an escape rather then punishment.
If i had the choice to be put in gaol forever or to be killed i'd probably want the death penalty.
So i believe in order to punish the offender gaol would be the best option...but thats just my opion.
Besides, karma can be a bitch.
 
I am for it, on an *extremely limited* basis.
If guilt can be proved, totally and absolutely beyond doubt, there are some crimes that, in my book, deserve it.
These would include *serial* pedophiles and murderers.
^^ I totally feel the opposite. *background because this is a touchy subject*: One of my friends committed suicide around the age of 10-11ish from being attacked from a serial paedophile (because all the loosers called him 'fagboy' 'faggot' because he was attacked and raped). Anyway, enough of that.. Jakoz (and others), are you aware that most serial killers and paedophiles do not realise they are doing wrong. Most of these people (and proven via psychiatric analysis) simply do not think they are doing anything wrong by their morals. These people need SERIOUS help, but at the end of the day, they for the most are not going out to hurt people on purpose. I studied this for many years and have strong views on this. I guess thats why Ed Gein is tattooed on me, but thats another story.
These people simply think that killing people is just a normal urge that needs to be filled and for the most part, do not question it as we do not question taking a piss 'when we need to'. It is very sad, but it is also truth. And I believe emotion gets in the way of this sad topic. Of course, you have to find out if the people know right from wrong. I think the person who goes out and does tags/steals heandbags is a lot worse _morally_ because these people know they are doing wrong from right but still choose to do it.
Anyway, thats just a VERY small view of what I have, but I really felt the need to voice it. Yes, I may be flamed for it, but at least I am voicing from what I think, an educated opinion.
some reference urls
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serials/what/whatmain.htm
http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Crime/Types_of_Crime/Homicide/Serial_Killers/
and if I have offended anyone in any _great_ amount, I am sorry..
I am truely a nice person :)
And Im still debating myself if I should put any other input to this.. Its a very close topic to my heart.. Just because I studied this literally for years...
[ 16 May 2002: Message edited by: wazza ]
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ok, heres my view.
murderes and serial killers should be given the death penalty when proven absolutely guilty.
rapists and paedophiles should be tortured with weird diabolical machines that tear their arse apart.
People who commit violent crimes should be tied up and bashed, preferably by a bashing machine.
thieves etc should be publically displayed in a glass chamber with their names written underneath. sorta like a shame chamber thing where everyone gets to see who they are.
wazza - look, if people kill people whether it feels good for them or not or satisfies some (normal?) urge makes no diffrence. the result is that they kill innocent people.
 
wazza - look, if people kill people whether it feels good for them or not or satisfies some (normal?) urge makes no diffrence. the result is that they kill innocent people.
Just remember, some times, these people who have killed innocents did not mean to. Im really not going to go into details as you seem you aren't prepared to listen (sorry if I made a wrong assumption - damn assumptions) plus Im at work!. Plus its just not enough space anyway.. brief form.. Some of these people tried to stop their urges, even goto call the police/psychiatrists for help etc. Its not always a clear cut case of 'they killed someone innocent'. So.. with this mentality, someone who had a car accident and killed innocent people, should they be capital punished?
Anyway, I can see this turning into a flame page which I hope it doesn't, best if I stay out of this.. I won't be putting my real posts in here, its too touchy as the above post shows..
[ 16 May 2002: Message edited by: wazza ]
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Two points.
First of all their is no system in place that can prove guilt 100%.
Second, and this comes from a discussion I had with wazza on this very topic. A person who yesterday was incapable of hurting a fly may for whatever reason tomorrow be a mass murderer. This means that treating the root cause is not always possible as the root cause may not exist yet.
So what I'm trying to say is that incarceration is the only method that can be used as we can't gaurentee guilt.
 
Waz - it makes no difference to me at all whether or not they mean to do it.
When your serial pedophile gets out of prison, I'm sure that saying 'he didn't mean it' to his next four or 5 victims will help to ease their pain.
Touchy subject here, too
 
sorry waz, didnt mean to sound flamey,
its just that even if someone does have mental problems, there has to be something done about it.
a car accident isnt really a murder tho, its an accident and most of the time not intentional.
murderes and serial killers kill with intent. mental problems or not, they are slaughtering people. theres no excuse for that bro. its just too easy to cop out and say "i killed her cus i have a mental problem"
thats like saying, "i went into town, drugged up girls and raped them because i have a mental problem"
well obviously the person in question does have some sort of problem if they do these things.
please dont stop yourself from posting because if you have some sort of insight that can change my view then i'd like to hear it. no flames intended or anytihng so dont be scarred to post. its a discussion, and much better than "im gonna get so fucked up this weekend"
 
People still argue as to whether Robert Ryan (the last man hanged in Australia) was guilty or not - for reasons like this, and also cost, and the delay's in execution make it virtually impossible to make it practical. I don't agree with capital punishment in any of it's forms around the world, past or present.....
 
i think that anyone who has hurt or killed someone should pay some price.
even if they are not in a healthy mind state and didn't mean to.
try telling the mother of the 4 year old girl who was raped and killed that they didn't mean it or that it was an accident. there baby was taken away.
try telling the children and grandchildren of the 80 year old who's house was broken into and he was bashed to death for a 20 year old tv and $50 out of his wallet.
you see the death penalty was brought into bring justice to those who had done these things.
what about those who admit they have done this or that sit in jail bragging about what they have done.
some people feel no guilt for what they have done. there is 100% proof when they admit to doing the crime or they turn themselves into authorities.
to me thats enough....
you can't tell me that they people who have lost loved ones for whatever the reason belive that the person that hurt the person they love thinks that 20 years in jail is fair enough compensation for the lose of this person.
i guess this is a touchy subject and it guess it fall under the same catergory as euthanasia and abortion we will all have different view.
you just have to remember to respect everyones.
 
9 years ago, a close friend of mine, Peta ,was raped & murdered. She was 14. The person (i use that term VERY loosely) that committed the crime is now walking free....he received a 12 year sentence with a 4 year bottom...because was a juvenile...he was deemed fit to stand trial, and had the gaul to smile at Peta's parents as he was led out of court.
2 years ago, another close girlfriend who i went to highschool with, Naomi, was abducted, tortured for 2 days and murdered by an ex boyfriend. If he's successful with his parole hearing, he will be out of jail in 7 more years. He showed no emotion whatsoever during the trial.
These monsters will, one day, be out walking in the sunshine, with the freedom to smell flowers, sit under a tree...with the freedom to LIVE.
Unfortunately, my two beautiful, wonderful friends who had the most glorious souls don't have that luxury anymore.
I have my very definite opinions about the death penalty...i also have enough objectivity to realise that in some cases, the death penalty shouldn't be used...but i also don't think that the solution is to all join hands with the offender, stand round in a circles singing Kumbayah and fill him/her with love.
I also think that we all need to have tolerance of what other people think...because i'm sure that, like me, there are others who have been touched by tragedy in their lives who think that bastards like the two i mentioned above should be drawn and quartered.
[ 16 May 2002: Message edited by: samadhi ]
[ 16 May 2002: Message edited by: samadhi ]
 
Legally sanctioning execution only makes violent revenge socially acceptable. Is this the path we really want our country to go down?
 
I find it stupid that we spend soooo much $$ to keep scum incarcerated until they die anyway, when there's sooo many sectors that desperately need that money.
But then again, I couldn’t be the one who administers the injection, or kicks the stool out form someone, so I don't think it's far to ask someone else to do it on my behalf.
True to form, I'm in two minds.
 
Legally sanctioning execution only makes violent revenge socially acceptable. Is this the path we really want our country to go down?
Is this any different then sancationing killing which the legal system is now doing by giving murderers 4 or 5 years punishment. Which is basically saying if you had a good reason to kill them or I didn't really mean it then its only worth <10 years of your life? I think it has been taken too far, you can get away with almost anything if you were drunk, effected by drugs, mentally unstable or didn't understand what you were doing.
Not having corporal punishment may protect the occassional person who is wrongly accused but harms much more people who are always the innocent victims.
Chopper Read for PM !!!
Click to expand...
 
I've put a lot of thought into this and I have to say I'm in two minds about it, I can argue both for and against it and really I don't think there is or ever will be a 'right' answer.
In some ways I really believe that the people who commit some of the worst crimes don't deserve to live out a life in prison. Lets face it they're not exactly totally disadvantaged with TV privileges and 3 meals a day. And to be honest I’d rather my tax dollars go into funding something to aid the community rather than keeping these people alive in relative comfort. I'm not saying they live in hotel suites but honestly they have a bed and food, access to TV and books, and more consideration than they showed their victims.
Then again I have quite extremist views – as I have said before I believe rapists and pedophiles should be castrated and tattooed so everyone knows who they are. I’ll never forget in primary school we had a guy working in our library who got caught touching little boys – the fucker got 4 years deskwork and then he was allowed back into the school system. As far as I’m concerned that’s not good enough.
Anyone who commits such horrendous crimes should never be able to live life with any sense of normalcy. Some may argue that these people are ill but lets face it if you had a rabid dog you’d put it down.
In other ways I don't believe anybody has the right to take the life of another, and somebody has to press that button. Who’d want that job and in the end aren’t they as bad as the murders themselves. Also is the risk of letting someone innocent die worth it?
Like I said there is never going to be a ‘right’ answer and I honestly believe that nobody is totally for or against it. There are too many factors to consider, and once you pass the age of 10 you lose the blinkers that say there must be right or wrong and understand that some things are just a grey area.
 
NO. Absolutely not. I don't care what the crime is. If you guys knew the rate of suspected innocent people put to death in USA, and knew how often the process or termination of life fucked up you might feel different (or maybe not).
http://oranous.com/odellbarnes/memo.html discusses the case of an innocent man put to death.
Botched executions talks about the many executions that don't go as planned, and the horrific consequences. Death penalty.com has info on everything from upcoming executions to execution of people despite being mentally retarded (which is defined as cruel and unusual punishment in some US states, but not others.) And from my favourite TV show, The Awful Truth yet more scary stuff.
Sobering stuff
[ 16 May 2002: Message edited by: babydoc_vic ]
 
Whiltst I sympathise with all those people who have personal stories of heartbreak and tragedy that in their minds justify Australia having a death penalty....
I think the fact that they are so personally involved means that can't really have an objective opinion.
There's a good reason society doesn't let the vicims of violent crime dole out punishment to perpetrators.
Another pertinent point is that innocent people do get executed. There have been plenty of wrongly accused sent to death row in the US, some have been exonerated, god knows how many didn't make it that far and died. All these people were sent to death row because they were proven to be guilty BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT.. and yet they were still innocent, after all the court system is not infallible.
Execution does not act as a deterrent, execution is all about punishing the offender. It's very easy to focus on punishment, because it makes society feel good about itself, but it doesn't address the roots or causes of crime.
[ 16 May 2002: Message edited by: Macksta ]
 
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