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Day 1 of Hell

JessTD said:
And how they look down on the people on maintenance meds. Suboxone, subutex, methadone- as long as those folks are following the doctor's advice to the letter and passing their drug tests, they're clean IMO.
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Is this still true? I never had any issues with anyone looking down on maintenance, tho I guess all Meetings can differ.

that said, I know they used to be hardcore about it. Like even antidepressants were not accepted.
 
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shroomyboom said:
I struggled with the total abstinence thing too. Imo harm reduction is a better path forward for some people, so taking away your kryptonite is key. Taking maintenance drugs or safer alternative to get over an extremely powerful addiction is not a weakness.

There'll be people at meetings that help you and offer advice I'm sure. Keep the good stuff and ignore the bs you hear that doesn't help
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When I was in rehab they tried to impose that shit on me, Total Abstinence. As soon as i got out I was fucking nuts, Relapsed hard on Morphine. These days I try to stay away from it and only smoke weed sometimes, drink beer, pentin and cigarettes.
 
Karamazov said:
Is this still true? I never had any issues with anyone looking down on maintenance, tho I guess all Meetings can differ.
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I'm sure people would hate me just for having enjoyed Suboxone.

Imagine people fiending, in pain, in withdrawal, not enjoying maintenance meds and I'm fucked out my mind off buprenorphine.

They would hate me. I'd hate me too. I do hate myself so I don't blame others for the instinct.

I'm like 7 + years off it. Or it will be seven years in a few months. Something like that.
 
Karamazov said:
cmon. Can someone really get fucked out of their mind on bupe? What’s your secret?
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It is neurochemistry, it was just very reinforcing/euphoric for me and I have seen people like buprenorphine quite a lot; many do NOT like it.

It is strictly a brain difference and I wouldn't begin to know how to enumerate the difference.

FOR INSTANCE I hate nicotine; many drug users like nicotine/tobacco.

I even thought I could "use buprenorphine once again" and no, after many months clean = relapse (this was in 2012....ish?) and I quit the last time in 2013 and was *very glad I did*.
 
Karamazov said:
wow, really? Man, I’ve been lurking on this site so long. I remember when you were actively using.

anyway, congrats!
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Haha yeah. I remember quitting fall 2013 (so it'll be 7 full years in fall of this year).

It helped to have a relationship which lasted five and a half years before my ex died (due to his prolific alcohol use). I'll always miss him.
 
JessTD said:
And how they look down on the people on maintenance meds. Suboxone, subutex, methadone- as long as those folks are following the doctor's advice to the letter and passing their drug tests, they're clean IMO.
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I disagree with that personally (but that should only be relevant to my own recovery), but I agree very strongly with the post you made before it.

I've talked on here before about how getting people to try and decide whether they're an 'addict' or not, which is what going to NA entails, is a very counterproductive thing to be asking someone who is trying to enter in to recovery. It leaves a gigantic amount of people feeling half in half out because they recognise that they have a problem but cant agree with the stipulations that are there if you are to consider yourself an addict that is welcome at NA. What's more a lot of people who do have a serious problem that they need help with will just say ok that's not me I cant get help here and give up.

Much better just ask this question:

Is your abuse of drugs causing negative consequences in your life such that you have decided you want to change your behaviour?

Yes....come right in let's forget about all that who is an addict bullshit and actually start working on helping you.

No...good for you, enjoy your day.

I honestly think we'll look back on 12 step programs one day in horror and amazement that we let this hocus pocus nonsense dominate the treatment of a life threatening medical condition in the 21st century.

Let me balance that by saying that I believe that there is also A LOT of very valuable stuff to be found within the rooms and the 12 step program, and that you should continue doing it if it works for you. However, for my money there is also a whole load of primitive snake oil, falsehoods and confused thinking that mask those positive things.
 
THECATINTHEHAT said:
I disagree with that personally (but that should only be relevant to my own recovery), but I agree very strongly with the post you made before it.

I've talked on here before about how getting people to try and decide whether they're an 'addict' or not, which is what going to NA entails, is a very counterproductive thing to be asking someone who is trying to enter in to recovery. It leaves a gigantic amount of people feeling half in half out because they recognise that they have a problem but cant agree with the stipulations that are there if you are to consider yourself an addict that is welcome at NA. What's more a lot of people who do have a serious problem that they need help with will just say ok that's not me I cant get help here and give up.

Much better just ask this question:

Is your abuse of drugs causing negative consequences in your life such that you have decided you want to change your behaviour?

Yes....come right in let's forget about all that who is an addict bullshit and actually start working on helping you.

No...good for you, enjoy your day.

I honestly think we'll look back on 12 step programs one day in horror and amazement that we let this hocus pocus nonsense dominate the treatment of a life threatening medical condition in the 21st century.

Let me balance that by saying that I believe that there is also A LOT of very valuable stuff to be found within the rooms and the 12 step program, and that you should continue doing it if it works for you. However, for my money there is also a whole load of primitive snake oil, falsehoods and confused thinking that mask those positive things.
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Amen.
 
JessTD said:
And how they look down on the people on maintenance meds. Suboxone, subutex, methadone- as long as those folks are following the doctor's advice to the letter and passing their drug tests, they're clean IMO.
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In my experience even this can vary a bit from group to group.

Because of the system of autonomous self reliant groups 12 step fellowships use, you wind up with different groups who have different interpretations of things.
 
follow what leads one to be a more powerful being. one would usually find this within oneself. just an opinion from being a dumb ass and listening to everyone around me. lol
one can find it among ones kind (peers) however the interaction. One can find it from no-one or no-where. a rock (stone) or a rock that can be smoked. same but different.
ijdfk sh**
but dig deep and get ready to hurt and laugh; of course it will be paradoxical. Any naysayers? Open always... my mind not my butt0-cheeks.lol
 
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Hey u over the wds, Right? mainly?
start another thread about something that has been on your mind and would like to see if any insight or bull shit it attracts. lol
one
 
Great. I know the feeling in the mornings... felt it for months. For some reason I am waking now like "normal": Ready to take on the day. I used to be like this a couple years ago but got *crippled mentally for a bit and lost it. Hope it is sustainable, lor knows. haha
Where's the dose with kratom may I ask... just had to raise mine by about a gram but maybe inferior. first from this vendor. she (uknown = chris) more than made up for it. I will love yer til she can no longer sell kratom. =D
JK
Love is always, peeps.
Ptahan
 
Honestly, Ptah, I'm not even measuring it at this point. I just put like 2 tablespoons (give or take 1) of the leaf powder in the cup, mix it as best as I can with hot water, and then chug and chase it with milk.

At this point, I'm doing that about 3 times a day but I'm not sure how many grams that is.
 
Dude, that is something to be really proud of. It's not easy to make that choice, take that step, but you've got this. NA taught me a lot about myself, the indifference between myself and so many others. That one commonality brought me close to lots of people; addiction. Just listening to others' stories and struggles kept me from feeling alone in the fight, gave me this overwhelming motivation. I started going out more, got a sponsor and began applying different concepts to my life, slowly over time, one day at a time. Really changed my life, I don't go anymore, still occasionally do drugs, but I'll never have the same mindset I'd had, when I'd first done drugs. From my experience, it can be very beneficial, but I ended up becoming very egocentric and toxic, so I'd left that community. The only thing you could possibly lose, going to NA, is your time, and maybe some gas money if you need to drive. **Not trying to encourage/discourage you going to NA in anyway, just wanted to share my experience and what I'd gained, stay safe!**
 
hey jess how are you getting on? starting to come out the other side yet? i really hope so!
 
Sorry guys. Yes most of the physical symptoms have eased off. I'm able to sleep and eat and I've even gone a few places and tried my best to go back to some kinda normal. However, I have wicked anhedonia and I dont know how to make it go away. I'm not myself around any of the people I love. With the exception of my mother and children, it's like I've forgotten how to interact with people. Does that make any sense? I've felt no joy since I was on the drugs.
 
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