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Chaos magick

Zephyn

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Oct 31, 2020
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Anyone have experience with "chaos magick"? I've been practicing ceremonial ritual magick for around ten years now and have had some pretty impressive and traumatic results. It's been a self purification tool at the very least, and as far as the psychological model of magic goes, has helped me to shape and refine my intentions and goals over the years. The only thing is, things tend to manifest in ways that can be kind of traumatic. I dont know if this is because I dont get myself to a state of gnosis or deep meditation while performing ritual, and thoughts/fears interfere with my result, or if the old discordian homage "imposition of order = escalation of chaos" is true in the sense that nature "does not like" when we interfere in the "natural" unfolding of things (though the theory of unconscious witchcraft would state that life is ritual and we are constantly manifesting on the fly, and magic is simply being more intentional about it) and has some rebound effect or result once you've obtained your goal. Personally, i dont involve other spirits or deities (which id say are essentially made up of collections of individuals thoughts that have become conscious "egregore" become godform) typically and just interact with nature itself. I dont think there's much need for too much dramatics surrounding it or specific incantations or any proper way, moreso that the individual eclectically creates their own ceremony over the duration of their practice, the real power being in our belief or faith. I've pulled off some remarkable stunts using these abilities that I couldn't deny but also experienced some really traumatic shit during the course of it all. Anyone have any insight? There is one particular linking sigil I've been warned is corrupted, by multiple people and, and I've used it a few times and perhaps this could explain some of the problems. But this kind of contradicts my belief that it's all in the mind, do things become more powerful the more people believe in them? Or does simply knowing that say centuries of belief have been put into a particular working give you the psychological faith you need in order to believe strongly enough to achieve your result.
 
I'm a ceremonial practitioner, with some chaos leanings... but mostly ceremonial through traditional paths.

Right off the bat, I need to inform you, deities are not egregores or constructs of aggregate group consciousness. This notion is a big mistake and honestly kind of dangerous. If you treat a deity as a figment of human conjuring they will know it and not work with you. If it's the wrong spirit they will punish you. They are individual beings each with their own unique history. This is not a faith-based assertion but an experience based one. So I suggest you nip that one in the butt right away.

There's a lot to unpack here. It's hard to say what the true source of your trauma is without considering the following:

- do you have the guidance of an experienced mentor/teacher or have you been flying solo, using book/internet/community based knowledge only?
- the spirits you work with, how you approach them, and the procedures you employed, are all important to what you receive
- how much magic you do on a regular basis, the length of time you work with a spirit before making more complex requests or inviting different other spirits to work with, the difficulty/grade level of the ceremonial rituals you attempt (whether within your pay grade or too much above), can all determine the intensity level of what happens to you on every level of life
- when you make a request for your life to change, you may be inviting trials and initiations to get you to the next level, and sometimes these can be perceived as trauma ("be careful what you wish for"); also, the path you choose will determine how the magic changes you, and sometimes a path will break you to remake you
- if you have any pre-existing and unresolved psychoemotional imbalances, traumas or disturbances, it's usually recommended that you resolve these before getting involved in magical paths. The reason is that simply performing magic warps reality in ways that can be challenging regardless of the end result (which is also a warping factor), and psychoemotional disturbance is already reality-warping, so you would be entering the magical world with a perceptual handicap. The one exception is working one's ancestors or one single guardian spirit you trust, while you recover. If you invite too much when you are still fucked up then psychological stress can increase exponentially and this will not be good for your development.

This begs the question... what is the point of magic? For me, it is to make life better, to experience personal/spiritual progress, and to self-actualize. What is your goal? If you don't have an answer to this, you may want to meditate on that, and then choose magical practices that hone this goal. A lot of magicians are armchair. They like to dabble for entertainment purposes, curiosity, or to flirt with the idea of whether or not magic is real. These people are the ones in the most danger because when shit gets real they will be less capable of dealing with the fallout. That's why it's good to figure out what you really want from the process. Also, as a general rule, if you're seeking material things (money, love, power, whatever), you have to be actively doing those things in the world first. If you just turn to magic all the time but don't provide a pathway, then you're wasting a lot of potential. The spirits help those who help themselves.

To answer your questions about chaos vs. ceremonial magic. In traditional systems, belief and intention are irrelevant. Of course, intention really focuses the practitioner so that they can feel a sense of momentum and optimism. However, it has no relationship to whether or not the magic yields results. The results come from proper procedures, ingredients, timing, etc. as determined by the many generations of people who came before us. I prefer traditional systems for this reason because I don't much feel like reinventing the wheel. There are hundreds if not thousands of years of literary material to draw on that tell us what works and what doesn't.

However, after many years of doing traditional magic, I am more apt to improvise because I have a better sense of what tends to work and what doesn't. If you don't have this sense, then it's better not to improvise, and ESPECIALLY don't mix different systems together. Usually you just won't get good results, but sometimes you get fucked up.

Magicians are born, not made, usually. The most powerful chaos magicians I've met just seem to have a natural knack for it. They've read many traditional texts and they can just slap stuff together on the go. They seem to have been born with an innate sense of how to create magic out of nothing. However, these people are rare. The lion's share of chaos magicians I've met don't have grounding in any traditional or ceremonial systems. In my opinion (and this may seem harsh), they are mostly lazy people who want to do magic but lack the discipline to learn anything real, which takes a lot of time and dedication. So they slap together rituals that barely work or don't work at all and then call themselves magicians. Presto. Like I said, I've met some powerful ones, but raw talent is not enough... they are very disciplined and do a lot of ground work.

I think the dichotomy between the chaos and traditional paths is kind of artificial. Traditional people improvise once they get good, and chaos people do a lot of historical research to fuel their creative process. It's not black and white.

Hope that helps.
 
There is one particular linking sigil I've been warned is corrupted, by multiple people and, and I've used it a few times and perhaps this could explain some of the problems.

I assume you mean the one I have as my avatar that Arjil came up with from the DKMU?

I've been active in DKMU for a little bit of time & they are loads better than the IOT, the issue with The Linking Sigil is people used it in acts of "Magick Terrorism" & also the Egregore that came out of it known as Ellis is quite an extreme energy, the first "Glamour Bombing" raid I went on with that Sigil really scared the shit outta me, Ellis & the LS isn't something to play with.

I had three experiences with LS that scared me deeply & really made me question how loose reality is, if you are interested in it check this my friend.



give you the psychological faith you need in order to believe strongly enough to achieve your result.

When I began with DKMU stuff I went into it taking all their texts etc to be a load of Discordian gibberish done by fools high on DXM, I soon learned that isn't the case.. What Arjil & the lot from DK & MU cooked up works on some bizarre laws that pay NO respect to psychological faith, they have managed to break "reality" into pieces & when you get into it...................well you learn very quickly.
 
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c6abe4701d40f7c8d4a6f1921f822cca099b0025r1-2000-1531v2_hq.jpg
 
Sounds like a rich people thing "smoke and mirrors", meh we all know the endgame. What you gon do about it?
 
I'm a ceremonial practitioner, with some chaos leanings... but mostly ceremonial through traditional paths.

Right off the bat, I need to inform you, deities are not egregores or constructs of aggregate group consciousness. This notion is a big mistake and honestly kind of dangerous. If you treat a deity as a figment of human conjuring they will know it and not work with you. If it's the wrong spirit they will punish you. They are individual beings each with their own unique history. This is not a faith-based assertion but an experience based one. So I suggest you nip that one in the butt right away.

There's a lot to unpack here. It's hard to say what the true source of your trauma is without considering the following:

- do you have the guidance of an experienced mentor/teacher or have you been flying solo, using book/internet/community based knowledge only?
- the spirits you work with, how you approach them, and the procedures you employed, are all important to what you receive
- how much magic you do on a regular basis, the length of time you work with a spirit before making more complex requests or inviting different other spirits to work with, the difficulty/grade level of the ceremonial rituals you attempt (whether within your pay grade or too much above), can all determine the intensity level of what happens to you on every level of life
- when you make a request for your life to change, you may be inviting trials and initiations to get you to the next level, and sometimes these can be perceived as trauma ("be careful what you wish for"); also, the path you choose will determine how the magic changes you, and sometimes a path will break you to remake you
- if you have any pre-existing and unresolved psychoemotional imbalances, traumas or disturbances, it's usually recommended that you resolve these before getting involved in magical paths. The reason is that simply performing magic warps reality in ways that can be challenging regardless of the end result (which is also a warping factor), and psychoemotional disturbance is already reality-warping, so you would be entering the magical world with a perceptual handicap. The one exception is working one's ancestors or one single guardian spirit you trust, while you recover. If you invite too much when you are still fucked up then psychological stress can increase exponentially and this will not be good for your development.

This begs the question... what is the point of magic? For me, it is to make life better, to experience personal/spiritual progress, and to self-actualize. What is your goal? If you don't have an answer to this, you may want to meditate on that, and then choose magical practices that hone this goal. A lot of magicians are armchair. They like to dabble for entertainment purposes, curiosity, or to flirt with the idea of whether or not magic is real. These people are the ones in the most danger because when shit gets real they will be less capable of dealing with the fallout. That's why it's good to figure out what you really want from the process. Also, as a general rule, if you're seeking material things (money, love, power, whatever), you have to be actively doing those things in the world first. If you just turn to magic all the time but don't provide a pathway, then you're wasting a lot of potential. The spirits help those who help themselves.

To answer your questions about chaos vs. ceremonial magic. In traditional systems, belief and intention are irrelevant. Of course, intention really focuses the practitioner so that they can feel a sense of momentum and optimism. However, it has no relationship to whether or not the magic yields results. The results come from proper procedures, ingredients, timing, etc. as determined by the many generations of people who came before us. I prefer traditional systems for this reason because I don't much feel like reinventing the wheel. There are hundreds if not thousands of years of literary material to draw on that tell us what works and what doesn't.

However, after many years of doing traditional magic, I am more apt to improvise because I have a better sense of what tends to work and what doesn't. If you don't have this sense, then it's better not to improvise, and ESPECIALLY don't mix different systems together. Usually you just won't get good results, but sometimes you get fucked up.

Magicians are born, not made, usually. The most powerful chaos magicians I've met just seem to have a natural knack for it. They've read many traditional texts and they can just slap stuff together on the go. They seem to have been born with an innate sense of how to create magic out of nothing. However, these people are rare. The lion's share of chaos magicians I've met don't have grounding in any traditional or ceremonial systems. In my opinion (and this may seem harsh), they are mostly lazy people who want to do magic but lack the discipline to learn anything real, which takes a lot of time and dedication. So they slap together rituals that barely work or don't work at all and then call themselves magicians. Presto. Like I said, I've met some powerful ones, but raw talent is not enough... they are very disciplined and do a lot of ground work.

I think the dichotomy between the chaos and traditional paths is kind of artificial. Traditional people improvise once they get good, and chaos people do a lot of historical research to fuel their creative process. It's not black and white.

Hope that helps.
Interesting. Except I have no idea what your actually talking about. Are measurable, repeatable results capable of being generated by any these elaborately esoteric fumblings?
 
If you realize the every thing, every unit is an ordering mechanism within a time cube(frame) into out of 2D matter..into 3D matter..our sense of spherical space..and the total knowledge and its effects on the potent cosm itself!
 
Potency is the meaning of any magic, magician and every tribe of every language...

All words are sigils..and everything on is BLACK!

Red is true to and so is blue..the honor of the sky God, Zeus..Skywalker..Sky Dragon! 655

White cloud chambers..of different colors (The war of the worlds)..everything shows what it is upon inspection.. which means we can know and tag and collate everything..we can sort for best priority of thought and mechanism..into out of the human realm of thought..you should have thoughts with everything..into out of the creative dynamic of the creative Whole Person.
 
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Yes I am very familiar with the dkmu, some of the fascists there bother me, and I've been warned multiple times by different people to stay away, not that I listen. It being tagged at auschwitz etc. I've had some pretty intense experiences with it as well, some quite traumatizing. Arjil himself seems like a solid dude, as do (some) of the others. I havent read much of their doctrine though as I tend to use and discard something like the LS, being the proper method. Perhaps I should though.
 
I'm a ceremonial practitioner, with some chaos leanings... but mostly ceremonial through traditional paths.

Right off the bat, I need to inform you, deities are not egregores or constructs of aggregate group consciousness. This notion is a big mistake and honestly kind of dangerous. If you treat a deity as a figment of human conjuring they will know it and not work with you. If it's the wrong spirit they will punish you. They are individual beings each with their own unique history. This is not a faith-based assertion but an experience based one. So I suggest you nip that one in the butt right away.

There's a lot to unpack here. It's hard to say what the true source of your trauma is without considering the following:

- do you have the guidance of an experienced mentor/teacher or have you been flying solo, using book/internet/community based knowledge only?
- the spirits you work with, how you approach them, and the procedures you employed, are all important to what you receive
- how much magic you do on a regular basis, the length of time you work with a spirit before making more complex requests or inviting different other spirits to work with, the difficulty/grade level of the ceremonial rituals you attempt (whether within your pay grade or too much above), can all determine the intensity level of what happens to you on every level of life
- when you make a request for your life to change, you may be inviting trials and initiations to get you to the next level, and sometimes these can be perceived as trauma ("be careful what you wish for"); also, the path you choose will determine how the magic changes you, and sometimes a path will break you to remake you
- if you have any pre-existing and unresolved psychoemotional imbalances, traumas or disturbances, it's usually recommended that you resolve these before getting involved in magical paths. The reason is that simply performing magic warps reality in ways that can be challenging regardless of the end result (which is also a warping factor), and psychoemotional disturbance is already reality-warping, so you would be entering the magical world with a perceptual handicap. The one exception is working one's ancestors or one single guardian spirit you trust, while you recover. If you invite too much when you are still fucked up then psychological stress can increase exponentially and this will not be good for your development.

This begs the question... what is the point of magic? For me, it is to make life better, to experience personal/spiritual progress, and to self-actualize. What is your goal? If you don't have an answer to this, you may want to meditate on that, and then choose magical practices that hone this goal. A lot of magicians are armchair. They like to dabble for entertainment purposes, curiosity, or to flirt with the idea of whether or not magic is real. These people are the ones in the most danger because when shit gets real they will be less capable of dealing with the fallout. That's why it's good to figure out what you really want from the process. Also, as a general rule, if you're seeking material things (money, love, power, whatever), you have to be actively doing those things in the world first. If you just turn to magic all the time but don't provide a pathway, then you're wasting a lot of potential. The spirits help those who help themselves.

To answer your questions about chaos vs. ceremonial magic. In traditional systems, belief and intention are irrelevant. Of course, intention really focuses the practitioner so that they can feel a sense of momentum and optimism. However, it has no relationship to whether or not the magic yields results. The results come from proper procedures, ingredients, timing, etc. as determined by the many generations of people who came before us. I prefer traditional systems for this reason because I don't much feel like reinventing the wheel. There are hundreds if not thousands of years of literary material to draw on that tell us what works and what doesn't.

However, after many years of doing traditional magic, I am more apt to improvise because I have a better sense of what tends to work and what doesn't. If you don't have this sense, then it's better not to improvise, and ESPECIALLY don't mix different systems together. Usually you just won't get good results, but sometimes you get fucked up.

Magicians are born, not made, usually. The most powerful chaos magicians I've met just seem to have a natural knack for it. They've read many traditional texts and they can just slap stuff together on the go. They seem to have been born with an innate sense of how to create magic out of nothing. However, these people are rare. The lion's share of chaos magicians I've met don't have grounding in any traditional or ceremonial systems. In my opinion (and this may seem harsh), they are mostly lazy people who want to do magic but lack the discipline to learn anything real, which takes a lot of time and dedication. So they slap together rituals that barely work or don't work at all and then call themselves magicians. Presto. Like I said, I've met some powerful ones, but raw talent is not enough... they are very disciplined and do a lot of ground work.

I think the dichotomy between the chaos and traditional paths is kind of artificial. Traditional people improvise once they get good, and chaos people do a lot of historical research to fuel their creative process. It's not black and white.

Hope that helps.
Everyone's true will or great work if you will would be different. I imagine self purification and refinement to be of the highest order of goals. I imagine selfish goals to be possible, though id never try anything with a negative intention, as karma even in its western understanding seems to be real, or the Wiccan law of 3, perhaps because I've subscribed to these ideas but I dont care to test and find out, but the ultimate goals would be to metamorphize society, end human suffering, provide worldwide abundance.

And I disagree on the deities thing.

And yes, i was doing "chaos magick" since before I heard of the term.
 
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Everyone's true will or great work if you will would be different. I imagine self purification and refinement to be of the highest order of goals. I imagine selfish goals to be possible, though id never try anything with a negative intention, as karma even in its western understanding seems to be real, or the Wiccan law of 3, perhaps because I've subscribed to these ideas but I dont care to test and find out, but the ultimate goals would be to metamorphize society, end human suffering, provide worldwide abundance.

And I disagree on the deities thing.

And yes, i was doing "chaos magick" since before I heard of the term.

Even selfish magic can lead to elevation, but it depends on the person. Sometimes people enter magic for selfish reasons and even doing magic for materialistic things changes their awareness for their better. It "wakes them up" so to speak. Besides, it's hard to elevate when worldly matters aren't taken care of, like poverty.

Karma has nothing to do with magic, just like the modern wiccan "threefold law". It's rubbish. The only possible karma is retaliation; or your own guilt consumes you because harming others is actually contrary to what you're supposed to be about; or you do malicious magic incorrectly and harm yourself. Otherwise, there is no universal accounting system.

I'm not sure what you mean by you disagree on the deities thing. There's not much to disagree with. If you're practicing real magic and summoning deities effectively, then treating them as figments will piss them off. If one is not using real methods, then I can see why they could seem fictitious.
 
"Writes word down on paper to investigate further" fuck some man are deep here let me guess chaos 'magick ' causes chaos
 
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