Bupe + codeine

[Keif' Richards]

^Haha, dude. No need for apologies. I won't lie, it's pretty aggravating though.

To clear things up, the best rule of thumb for someone just learning this stuff, don't worry so much about the pharmacology of the Naloxone. It will ultimately have little to no effect on your situation. Buprenorphine has a higher binding affinity, meaning it will almost always out-compete the Naloxone. Buprenorphine though will generally do the same to other Opioids. An important thing to know, Buprenorphine has a significantly different effect on folks when used in low dosages, typically for analgesia and higher dosages, typically for Opioid maintenance.

At lower dosages, the Buprenorphine will not go crazy and knock out all of your other Opioids. You can use it in low dosages, in concert with your other Opioids. If you use a lot of it, it could cause problems, but you have a pre-packaged, MD-endorsed dosage, so don't stress it.

Buprenorphine will indeed produce precipitated withdrawal in maintenance dosages. It's basically a widespread misconception than Naloxone is responsible and as I said, this is all propagated by the Pharma guys in an effort to patent a "New" medication. In reality Bupe is Bupe, although some folks are allergic to Naloxone and its contraindicated for pregnant women. That's the deal though.

I don't know how interested you are or what your exact situation is, but I can show you some really interesting literature on the subject, although admittedly, it's pretty technical stuff.

 

[Quinine121]

^Haha, dude. No need for apologies. I won't lie, it's pretty aggravating though.

To clear things up, the best rule of thumb for someone just learning this stuff, don't worry so much about the pharmacology of the Naloxone. It will ultimately have little to no effect on your situation. Buprenorphine has a higher binding affinity, meaning it will almost always out-compete the Naloxone. Buprenorphine though will generally do the same to other Opioids. An important thing to know, Buprenorphine has a significantly different effect on folks when used in low dosages, typically for analgesia and higher dosages, typically for Opioid maintenance.

At lower dosages, the Buprenorphine will not go crazy and knock out all of your other Opioids. You can use it in low dosages, in concert with your other Opioids. If you use a lot of it, it could cause problems, but you have a pre-packaged, MD-endorsed dosage, so don't stress it.

Buprenorphine will indeed produce precipitated withdrawal in maintenance dosages. It's basically a widespread misconception than Naloxone is responsible and as I said, this is all propagated by the Pharma guys in an effort to patent a "New" medication. In reality Bupe is Bupe, although some folks are allergic to Naloxone and its contraindicated for pregnant women. That's the deal though.

I don't know how interested you are or what your exact situation is, but I can show you some really interesting literature on the subject, although admittedly, it's pretty technical stuff.

Ahhhh awesome thanks bro that’s cleared up a few things and educated me as well ?

That’s what I love about these forums basically all good bros trying to help each other out and share stories etc even if “we” get it “wrong” it’s always in a the best spirt of trying to help .

I assume by “under maintenance dosages” of bupe not precipitating w/d I would be good to go if I want to chew the other two patches that would bring total bupe to under 1mg

As they are 24 hr 10mcg/1hr

Also excuse my newb question but I just put them in my mouth and chewed I take it there is not some special way of chewing patches I should know about lol

 

[chicken hoagie]

Sorry Keith I don’t quite understand ? Are you saying bupe alone WILL precipitate w/d or that even with Nalxone it won’t ?

He is saying that the naloxone is pretty useless in suboxone other than to serve to make you possibly violently sick to the stomach if swallowed..naloxone doesn't absorb well through the mucous membranes(aka in the mouth). Buprinorphine will knock naloxone right out of its place every time..however, as I stated, bupe is a partial agonist which means it both agonises and blocks opioid receptors. Sometimes the blockade effect will cause a temporary "reverse-response" on your opioid receptors and cause withdrawal symptoms. I have very often gotten violently sick from ingesting only suboxone..this usually happens when I tinker with the dose from day to day and not consistent with my dosage. Any time the stimulation to your receptors fluctuates, that is a chance to have withdrawals..if that makes any sense.

 

[chicken hoagie]

^Haha, dude. No need for apologies. I won't lie, it's pretty aggravating though.

To clear things up, the best rule of thumb for someone just learning this stuff, don't worry so much about the pharmacology of the Naloxone. It will ultimately have little to no effect on your situation. Buprenorphine has a higher binding affinity, meaning it will almost always out-compete the Naloxone. Buprenorphine though will generally do the same to other Opioids. An important thing to know, Buprenorphine has a significantly different effect on folks when used in low dosages, typically for analgesia and higher dosages, typically for Opioid maintenance.

At lower dosages, the Buprenorphine will not go crazy and knock out all of your other Opioids. You can use it in low dosages, in concert with your other Opioids. If you use a lot of it, it could cause problems, but you have a pre-packaged, MD-endorsed dosage, so don't stress it.

Buprenorphine will indeed produce precipitated withdrawal in maintenance dosages. It's basically a widespread misconception than Naloxone is responsible and as I said, this is all propagated by the Pharma guys in an effort to patent a "New" medication. In reality Bupe is Bupe, although some folks are allergic to Naloxone and its contraindicated for pregnant women. That's the deal though.

I don't know how interested you are or what your exact situation is, but I can show you some really interesting literature on the subject, although admittedly, it's pretty technical stuff.

Here here..well explained

 

[chicken hoagie]

BTW, i noted early on that bupe was only 17 times stronger than oral morphine..it is actually stated as being 40 times stronger..although bupe is much different than other opioids, so this statistic is a little misleading and maybe even a bit irrelevant. 0.4mg is roughly equal to 10mg oral morphine..but that obviously becomes irrelevant at higher doses of bupe, since it tops out in effects at around 16mg.

 

[Keif' Richards]

As promised, let's get technical mofo's. Nicholai Bukharin famously authored "The ABC's of Communism" during the revolution so everybody could have an easier to comprehend idea of what Communism meant for them, outside of the economics, numbers and theories. I'm gonna try to make this understandable on a basic level, but please be aware, even I'm a newb when it comes to this stuff. I'm still learning myself, but I know a bit.

Here is some literature on the subject. I would really love for someone knowledgeable to correct me if I am way off, but my understanding is that we have Opioid receptors in our body. Mu, Delta, Kappa etc. Essentially, the Mu receptor is the one that we really want to play with. For addiction, for straight up pain relief, the Mu receptor is it. Buprenorphine in lower dosages, such as what OP is dealing with, tends to tickle that Mu receptor pretty effectively. However, when the dosage is raised to "maintenance levels", these other receptors are more effected and for lack of better phrasing, we don't want those receptors to be effected.

https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/bupe-codeine.872860/page-3#post-14544602

Keif is completely talking out of his ass, but I'm reasonably certain that this is the basic picture. The literature seems to indicate this and I've heard from certain folks that they have had subjectively more enjoyable experiences with Buprenorphine when taken in lower dosages? Opinions?

 

[chicken hoagie]

As promised, let's get technical mofo's. Nicholai Bukharin famously authored "The ABC's of Communism" during the revolution so everybody could have an easier to comprehend idea of what Communism meant for them, outside of the economics, numbers and theories. I'm gonna try to make this understandable on a basic level, but please be aware, even I'm a newb when it comes to this stuff. I'm still learning myself, but I know a bit.

Here is some literature on the subject. I would really love for someone knowledgeable to correct me if I am way off, but my understanding is that we have Opioid receptors in our body. Mu, Delta, Kappa etc. Essentially, the Mu receptor is the one that we really want to play with. For addiction, for straight up pain relief, the Mu receptor is it. Buprenorphine in lower dosages, such as what OP is dealing with, tends to tickle that Mu receptor pretty effectively. However, when the dosage is raised to "maintenance levels", these other receptors are more effected and for lack of better phrasing, we don't want those receptors to be effected.

https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/bupe-codeine.872860/page-3#post-14544602

Keif is completely talking out of his ass, but I'm reasonably certain that this is the basic picture. The literature seems to indicate this and I've heard from certain folks that they have had subjectively more enjoyable experiences with Buprenorphine when taken in lower dosages? Opinions?

Absolutely. However, the lower doses(below 4mg) only work if your tolerance is low. At doses lower than 4mg, receptors are left open, and bupe acts more like a full agonist rather than a partial agonist..as in, it has less of a "blockade" effect. So with bupe, less is definitely more. It may not be as therapeutic in minimizing cravings, which is why doctors want to ensure your receptors are fully saturated, but it will certainly be a cleaner high with less side effects at doses below 4mg. This is really kind of the case with any opioid, but bupe is still quite a bit different..this is really just due to its high affinity that seperates it from other opioids, so taking a small amount can still have a very large effect.

 

[chicken hoagie]

this is also not to say that taking less than 4mg(the dose where all receptors begin to be saturated) will get you "higher" or have a fuller effect than say 16mg(the dose where the effects top out and saturate all receptors much faster than 4mg). But by taking say 16mg, you will trash your tolerance very quickly..anyone with low tolerance would also be completely wiped out by 16mg. I wouldn't even recommend such a starting dose to anyone who has used heroin 3 days or more ago, as it will get you unbelievably high and more than likely very very sick the next day. If anyone hasn't used a short acting opioid like even heroin in the past few days, or even couple, I would take absolutely no more than 8mg but probably go even less than that. I have witnessed my friends go into full-blown delirium from taking one of my 8mg strips. You can't exactly overdose on it unless mixed with other nervous system depressants which is a huge plus, but it can most certainly push you to the very edge and wipe you out just like any powerful opioid.

 

[chicken hoagie]

Ahhhh awesome thanks bro that’s cleared up a few things and educated me as well ?

That’s what I love about these forums basically all good bros trying to help each other out and share stories etc even if “we” get it “wrong” it’s always in a the best spirt of trying to help .

I assume by “under maintenance dosages” of bupe not precipitating w/d I would be good to go if I want to chew the other two patches that would bring total bupe to under 1mg

As they are 24 hr 10mcg/1hr

Also excuse my newb question but I just put them in my mouth and chewed I take it there is not some special way of chewing patches I should know about lol

And to answer your last question..no real specific technique to chewing. Just chew it up good, let it sit under the tongue or against the cheek from time to time for about 30 minutes. You could spit it out by that time.

 

[Quinine121]

this is also not to say that taking less than 4mg(the dose where all receptors begin to be saturated) will get you "higher" or have a fuller effect than say 16mg(the dose where the effects top out and saturate all receptors much faster than 4mg). But by taking say 16mg, you will trash your tolerance very quickly..anyone with low tolerance would also be completely wiped out by 16mg. I wouldn't even recommend such a starting dose to anyone who has used heroin 3 days or more ago, as it will get you unbelievably high and more than likely very very sick the next day. If anyone hasn't used a short acting opioid like even heroin in the past few days, or even couple, I would take absolutely no more than 8mg but probably go even less than that. I have witnessed my friends go into full-blown delirium from taking one of my 8mg strips. You can't exactly overdose on it unless mixed with other nervous system depressants which is a huge plus, but it can most certainly push you to the very edge and wipe you out just like any powerful opioid.

Cheers bud

So if someone was proscribed oxys say and took about 120-160mg and got a decent buzz for a cpl hrs but not a full on nod (cross tolerance) how long would / should they wait before taking bupe and at what dosage ? I read you mentioned 8mg causing havoc with some of your bros who were taking H .

Safe side 7-8mg ? 140mg oxies about 200mg oral morphine and 0.4mg bupe = 10mg morphine

After 24 hours be sufficient ?

Just trying to get a handle on this when speaking to drs/ pain specialist

 

[chicken hoagie]

Cheers bud

So if someone was proscribed oxys say and took about 120-160mg and got a decent buzz for a cpl hrs but not a full on nod (cross tolerance) how long would / should they wait before taking bupe and at what dosage ? I read you mentioned 8mg causing havoc with some of your bros who were taking H .

Safe side 7-8mg ? 140mg oxies about 200mg oral morphine and 0.4mg bupe = 10mg morphine

After 24 hours be sufficient ?

Just trying to get a handle on this when speaking to drs/ pain specialist

i would say 48 hours to be sure. 24 hours may not be quite long enough..but worth a shot i suppose