Opioids Are we fooling ourselves about Kratom's risks?

[Mycophile]

Ok,

So we all know Kratom hasn't been extensively studied and that we don't know all of it's harms, but I like to believe that some of the posters on this forum who originally informed me about Kratom had some greater degree of knowledge than I still have, and that they weren't being dishonest or fooling themselves more likely.

Still, a drug user is a drug user, not a doctor or expert on an untested drug.

But most of the users here and the very few studies done on Kratom lead us to believe that Kratom PROBABLY doesnt' have SEVERE long lasting side effects.

There have been RARE users with liver problems but only when they experienced them early on.

There was the WebMd study which said that WITH PEOPLE PREDISPOSED to long Q.T. syndrome it COULD exaccerbate it, but still, the findings seemed somewhat inconclusive in relation to those not predisposed and the tests were probably done with rats.

Most people seem quick to say that Kratom has fewer risks than Heroin or even Methadone or Oxycodone or Hydrocodone etc.

But could we be wrong???

I don't know why some of these long term effects have only been mentioned on this other forum I go to (are we allowed to mention other forums mods??).....BUT I've NEVER heard of the following VERY concerning side effects mentioned on Bluelight:


1) Hair loss: Users on this site have said they lost most or all their hair after being daily users for some time.

2) Hormonal changes and Adrenal imbalance: Certain users said that even MONTHS after using....one long term user said ELEVEN months AFTER quitting he saw his endocrinologist who is telling him he STILL has hormonal imbalances and that his adrenal gland is not producing the proper amounts of adrenaline.

Another user said a month after quitting his endocrinologist said the same.

He continues to experience (EVEN AFTER QUITTING) hair loss, SEVERE acne, constipation, etc.


3) Lowered testosterone: We know this is probably true. Users have lowered libido and I experience it myself and feel it come back within a few days of not using.



And we STILL don't know if long term use can be bad for the liver or kidneys.


But even while some users on other forums have reported all these side effects we have users here I have spoken to with TEN YEAR DAILY HABITS who haven't experienced ANY hair loss, or any of these SERIOUS side effects BUT I do not know if these users ever went to an endocrinologist to find out if their adrenal glands were effected.

Afterall....MANY things in the body can go undiscovered by the user FOR YEARS if they don't see a doctor, or even if they do see a doctor if they don't have the proper tests run or see the right kind of specialist like an endocrinologist.


In my first beginning to use Kratom I was LED TO BELIEVE by more experienced users that Kratom is a "soft drug"....more harmful than Marijuanna, but MOST LIKELY really not the kind of thing which was going to permanently fuck up your body....with risks Different from....but probably not greater than....using Adderall or Shrooms or LSD or maybe using ecstasty once or twice a month (just examples)..

But now I am not so sure.


What do you EXPERIENCED Kratom users think about the claims of hair loss, endocrinologist's PROVING that hormones and adrenal glands have been negatively effected and all these things???

The hair loss is the most pronounced outwardly physical manifestation I've ever heard of, and what it must signify could NOT POSSIBLY BE GOOD BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.

It is starting to seem to me like this other forum I have been going to has users who are being more honest with themselves than this forum's users, and with this being a harm reduction site that is quite sad to see.


Have I already fucked up my hormones and adrenal glands beyond repair??

Have All of us Kratom users already done the same thing??


I HAVE to believe that we know more about this plant than we think...the info MUST be out there somewhere.


Lets hear some OBJECTIVE and HONEST opinions from long term Kratom users, moderators, and those who have SERIOUSLY read up on Kratom and it's effects.

 

[Mycophile]

Am I allowed to make a duplicate thread of this in General Drug discussion if I think it will get more responses there?

Of if not, do people think I'd get more response there?

If so, maybe I'll get it moved, but I just want to talk to some more experienced users and mods about this, especially some people like Sekio and Plasticity in particular and also anyone who has used daily for a year or more.

 

[My3sons]

Its long and redundant. Edit and more people will read

 

[dus_aster]

Very curious, will follow closely...

As an infrequent user (100 grams a week, but only one week a month, maximum, doses in the ~10g range) I noticed none of the aforementioned health warnings (nor would I expect to, at my consumption levels); however, I'm very skeptical of the oft quoted rhetoric that 'it's only harmful for some, and problems manifest quickly'. I support this skepticism only through personal anecdote; out of the psychoactive substances with overt effects that I've experimented with (40+), I have yet to find *anything* that offered an effect profile as overwhelmingly positive as Kratom's without also having concurrent concerns or drawbacks. Very little is free, in regards to the hedonistic, and while it may turn out that Kratom has nary a long term health effect, I would be surprised to find that the case.
If it is, that would be fantastic!
But, given the body load the drug imposes/liver concerns/modulation of hormonal levels, I would be /very/ surprised if it were risk free. I would also be very surprised if it proved to be more dangerous than heroin, as you have speculated, however?
I would hesitate to label it as dangerous without further hard evidence, but I also think it advisable to proceed with caution and collectively discourage labeling it as the drug community equivalent of GRAS
Just my two cents, though!!

 

[Mycophile]

Its long and redundant. Edit and more people will read

I shortened it to get rid of the redundant parts, but honestly if people can't read a few paragraphs I don't know what's up lol.


Here are the personal parts of my post I'd taken out about my own use:


Now...I myself don't have a DAILY dependence but I DO have a dependence, it's just not SO bad that I need to use on a regular basis and I've managed to never use more than 4 days in a single week or more than 3 days in a row....but I'm still not in a great spot.

I find myself fatigued for a couple days after use, but most say this is a normal withdrawal effect, I mean I get the same thing EVEN WORSE from quitting coffee and we all know coffee's not that bad for you so big deal right??

I PERSONALLY haven't lost any hair (knock on wood), I had 2 pimples in the past few days but I doubt that's a big deal..we are talking about TWO here.....etc.


I Personally still plan on quitting within the next 3 weeks.

I do NOT want to permanently quit FOREVER as I LOVE Kratom...but I plan on stopping for AT LEAST 6 months and seeing how I feel about it then.

If I feel I can abstain from using longer then I will.



I want DESPERATELY to believe I can continue to use Kratom SPORADICALLY throughout my life as I have found it to not only be recreationally enjoyable but also A MEDICATION for my anxiety disorder and depression.


Again, I'm gearing up to stop AT LEAST for 6 months within the next 3 weeks....But my concerns are that the damage may already be done.

 

[Tinker55]

I'm curious too. I don't use but who knows, I may in the future? What I am not comfortable with is the almost religious fever of some users, who are claiming anything as natural, as green can't possibly have harmful side effects. We've already seen the vendors of kratom weren't exactly accurate in claiming quitting causes no more discomfort than quitting coffee. And there are no large scale, peer-reviewed studies about use and potential complications.

 

[Mycophile]

Very curious, will follow closely...

As an infrequent user (100 grams a week, but only one week a month, maximum, doses in the ~10g range) I noticed none of the aforementioned health warnings (nor would I expect to, at my consumption levels); however, I'm very skeptical of the oft quoted rhetoric that 'it's only harmful for some, and problems manifest quickly'. I support this skepticism only through personal anecdote; out of the psychoactive substances with overt effects that I've experimented with (40+), I have yet to find *anything* that offered an effect profile as overwhelmingly positive as Kratom's without also having concurrent concerns or drawbacks. Very little is free, in regards to the hedonistic, and while it may turn out that Kratom has nary a long term health effect, I would be surprised to find that the case.
If it is, that would be fantastic!
But, given the body load the drug imposes/liver concerns/modulation of hormonal levels, I would be /very/ surprised if it were risk free. I would also be very surprised if it proved to be more dangerous than heroin, as you have speculated, however?
I would hesitate to label it as dangerous without further hard evidence, but I also think it advisable to proceed with caution and collectively discourage labeling it as the drug community equivalent of GRAS
Just my two cents, though!!

That rhetoric doesn't state that ACROSS THE BOARD it's "only harmful for some", it relates SPECIFICALLY to concerns regarding the livers of some users and how certain rare users have very quickly developed some fairly severe liver issues that only went away after they stopped using and every time we have heard of this happening to users it has happened within the first month or so of their use.

Others like myself have used for a while and others MUCH longer while seeing doctors and never having any of these issues or even elevated liver enzymes so the question is whether or not certain users might lack an enzyme that is necessary to metabolize kratom leading their liver issues and when you think about it that would not be unusual at all.

Alcohol users experience the same thing: A very large percentage of Asians lack an enzyme necessary to metabolize alcohol and drinking any will result in flushing of the face, dizziness and other symptoms, while most people in general can drink alcohol without this happening.

So with that in mind, there's no reason to think it couldn't also happen with Kratom.


I'm not so much concerned with my liver, I feel if that were an issue I'd have already had it.

I'm more concerned with the claims regarding adrenal glands, testosterone, hair loss, and overall hormonal and adrenal effects or any possible heart effects.

It's the people on this other site who are saying they are losing their hair and seeing endocrinologists reporting adrenal level defects MONTHS after quitting that have me concerned.

And I NEVER "speculated it could be more dangerous than heroin", I think that is EXTREMELY unlikely.

It's weird cause BEFORE I got heavily into Kratom I was the guy who was always worrying about this stuff, but with increased usage I totally STOPPED worrying.

Now I am back to worrying again because this other forum is full of users reporting this stuff.

I don't know why I don't see these kinds of reports on bluelight though.

I'm still wondering if I am allowed to mention other forums on here, because if so I will mention it by name so you guys can go read these posts and respond to these posters yourself.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

You seem to have quite a bit of anxiety about this. Especially if you're worried that kratom has somehow permanently damaged you.

I've heard of the kidney issues but that seems to only happen to a certain subset of users. Other than that I'm not sure...kratom has been consumed for a long time by people in southeast Asia, so you would think if there were terrible side-effects associated with use, they'd be known about by now. As far as some of these side-effects go (lowered libido, constipation etc), well, that's just the nature of the beast when it comes to opiates/opioids. And, in my experience, the effect of kratom on my libido and "regularity" is NOTHING compared to the effects of strong opiates like heroin on the aforementioned aspects.

If you're looking to self-medicate your anxiety using drugs, you're going to have to accept some risks I think...personally the risks of long-term kratom use seem to pale in comparison to some of the effects of daily, long-term benzodiazepine use (to name another common anxiolytic), which has been linked to everything from long-term cognitive impairment to Alzheimer's disease. I would think there'd be at least some information on the Internet about kratom & the long-term effects of the drug, if one were so inclined to do a serious search effort

 

[Man in the Dark]

That rhetoric doesn't state that ACROSS THE BOARD it's "only harmful for some", it relates SPECIFICALLY to concerns regarding the livers of some users and how certain rare users have very quickly developed some fairly severe liver issues that only went away after they stopped using and every time we have heard of this happening to users it has happened within the first month or so of their use.

Others like myself have used for a while and others MUCH longer while seeing doctors and never having any of these issues or even elevated liver enzymes so the question is whether or not certain users might lack an enzyme that is necessary to metabolize kratom leading their liver issues and when you think about it that would not be unusual at all.

Alcohol users experience the same thing: A very large percentage of Asians lack an enzyme necessary to metabolize alcohol and drinking any will result in flushing of the face, dizziness and other symptoms, while most people in general can drink alcohol without this happening.

So with that in mind, there's no reason to think it couldn't also happen with Kratom.


I'm not so much concerned with my liver, I feel if that were an issue I'd have already had it.

I'm more concerned with the claims regarding adrenal glands, testosterone, hair loss, and overall hormonal and adrenal effects or any possible heart effects.

It's the people on this other site who are saying they are losing their hair and seeing endocrinologists reporting adrenal level defects MONTHS after quitting that have me concerned.

And I NEVER "speculated it could be more dangerous than heroin", I think that is EXTREMELY unlikely.

It's weird cause BEFORE I got heavily into Kratom I was the guy who was always worrying about this stuff, but with increased usage I totally STOPPED worrying.

Now I am back to worrying again because this other forum is full of users reporting this stuff.

I don't know why I don't see these kinds of reports on bluelight though.

I'm still wondering if I am allowed to mention other forums on here, because if so I will mention it by name so you guys can go read these posts and respond to these posters yourself.

Thank you for bringing up these issues, but you are fucking freaking me out as I have just started Kratom and have excellent relieve from it and I read some of your posts talking about the positive outcomes of Kratom. Then I read all these Side effects you are talking about.

You need to share the website that your are reading about the negative effects of Kratom, it is only fair, after a post like this. I appreciate you bringing these issues to light but I hope you see my point.

 

[burn out]

All the natural herbal highs were given to us as medicines by mother nature and thus they were meant to be consumed (unlike things like benzos which can cause years of horrible withdrawal symptoms). So all the natural plants have a relative degree of safety when used properly but that does not mean they have no side effects or negatives. On the contrary, everything in the physical world has a good side and a bad.

I personally have been a daily kratom user for a number of years now and I dont experienced any of the side effects you mentioned except perhaps low testosterone, but there are negatives. I would like to get off of it, because I am tired of being dependent and always needing it. I feel like it clouds my mind a little bit and just makes me feel dirty sometimes, but that's what I get for over using it.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I personally think that the good far outweighs the bad when it comes to kratom. It's the most effective anxiolytic I've ever found just about, I've gotten to the point where I much prefer it to benzodiazepines actually. I have a large prescription for diazepam that I barely ever touch because of kratom...benzodiazepines are effective anxiolytics but they make me feel depressed, "low" and muddle-headed, while kratom annihilates my anxiety while giving me tons of energy and positivity...it's awesome.

Like the above poster said, every drug has positives and negatives...gotta take the bad with the good

 

[Mycophile]

Thank you for bringing up these issues, but you are fucking freaking me out as I have just started Kratom and have excellent relieve from it and I read some of your posts talking about the positive outcomes of Kratom. Then I read all these Side effects you are talking about.

You need to share the website that your are reading about the negative effects of Kratom, it is only fair, after a post like this. I appreciate you bringing these issues to light but I hope you see my point.

Sorry that I'm freaking you out, since I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder I'm prone to freaking like this from time to time, then USUALLY (depending on what I'm worrying about) I come around and stop worrying, but you never know, some things are WORTH worrying about, or rather not worrying about ACTING in whatever way necessary so you are longer worried, which in this case would mean quitting Kratom.

Now I DO have plans to stop TEMPORARILY for AT LEAST six or more months within the next month, but I like it too much to say I'd never used it again....that will be something I'll decide on later.


Anyways, I've never heard it to be against the rules here to mention other forums, just vendors, so I was reading about this on the Reddit wed site, specifically their "quitting Kratom" forum which is for people who are trying to quit Kratom.

They have a forum for Kratom in general, and also one dedicated to quitting Kratom.

See Kratom is still relatively new in terms of being something consumed by large numbers of WESTERNERS.

Yes, it's been consumed in Thailand and Southeast Asia for a long time, but that's a different part of the world and many of them chew it rather than swallow it like us.

It's still really an unknown at this point.

I BADLY want to believe that Kratom is a super safe plant to experiment with as it is probably my favorite drug....but I don't know whether it is or not.

The jury is still out, but I'm not ready to say I'll quit forever, I just know I'm going to try to take a long and much needed break after I have a little more fun for the next few weeks.

 

[Mycophile]

All the natural herbal highs were given to us as medicines by mother nature and thus they were meant to be consumed (unlike things like benzos which can cause years of horrible withdrawal symptoms). So all the natural plants have a relative degree of safety when used properly but that does not mean they have no side effects or negatives. On the contrary, everything in the physical world has a good side and a bad.

I personally have been a daily kratom user for a number of years now and I dont experienced any of the side effects you mentioned except perhaps low testosterone, but there are negatives. I would like to get off of it, because I am tired of being dependent and always needing it. I feel like it clouds my mind a little bit and just makes me feel dirty sometimes, but that's what I get for over using it.

Yeah man but the whole "it's natural so it's safe" argument is bullshit.

I WISH it wasn't, but Datura is natural too and so are all the poisonous mushrooms and plants in the world and there are synthetic chemicals which are safe in comparison to many of those.

I LOVE Kratom, but some of these things these people on Reddit's Quitting Kratom forum are concerning.

Most of all it's the hair loss, hormonal and adrenal effects some of these people mention that freak me out.

But then I LOVE to hear from long term users like you who haven't experienced them cause it makes me calm down and also lets me think MAYBE i can continue to use SOMETIMES and avoid all that nasty shit happening to me!!!!

All I know is it DOES happen to SOME of these people, but it doesn't happen to plenty of others.

It's all a crap shoot I guess.

I tend to think that by and large Kratom isn't THAT bad in the long term, but really who knows.

Like anything the dose makes the poison.

As a benzo user I personally feel the dangers of those drugs have been overstated as I've used Klonopin for 12 years with almost no side effects.

But anyway, I REALLY hope you are right.

I'll post some of the posts from reddit at some point soon so you guys can see what I am talking about and we can get some perspective from posters from another forum.

 

[Mycophile]

You seem to have quite a bit of anxiety about this. Especially if you're worried that kratom has somehow permanently damaged you.

I've heard of the kidney issues but that seems to only happen to a certain subset of users. Other than that I'm not sure...kratom has been consumed for a long time by people in southeast Asia, so you would think if there were terrible side-effects associated with use, they'd be known about by now. As far as some of these side-effects go (lowered libido, constipation etc), well, that's just the nature of the beast when it comes to opiates/opioids. And, in my experience, the effect of kratom on my libido and "regularity" is NOTHING compared to the effects of strong opiates like heroin on the aforementioned aspects.

If you're looking to self-medicate your anxiety using drugs, you're going to have to accept some risks I think...personally the risks of long-term kratom use seem to pale in comparison to some of the effects of daily, long-term benzodiazepine use (to name another common anxiolytic), which has been linked to everything from long-term cognitive impairment to Alzheimer's disease. I would think there'd be at least some information on the Internet about kratom & the long-term effects of the drug, if one were so inclined to do a serious search effort

Yeah that's my anxiety disorder talking, which is one thing I use Kratom to treat, and it is usually HIGHLY effective with that, but lately I've been overdoing it and throwing myself out of wack a bit I think.

I LOVE Kratom but part of the problem with being someone who uses a lot somedays but REFUSES to get a daily dependency going or take it more than 4 days a week is it's all or nothing for me so when I am in withdrawal on the off days it can get rough even despite not being as bad as some users or wake up in the night needing it.

I'd like to believe what you are saying too, but most of the Kratom users in southeast Asia CHEW their Kratom rather than swallowing and also, how many SERIOUS studies have been done on people from Southeast Asia???

Not many from what I've heard.

I STILL hope very much you are right and would like to hear from as many long term users as possible.

There are some great posters who taught me a lot about Kratom on this site but they don't respond to anything I write anymore so we won't get to hear what they have to say about the claims of hair loss in particular, something which troubles me because that is an external sign of something serious going on in internally I would think...

 

[Mycophile]

Here are some of the posts that have concerned me from users on Reddit's "quitting Kratom" forum.

I don't THINK I am breaking any rules by sharing them.

It should be interesting to see how one forum responds to the different culture/reactions from another, so here they are:


"When I was abusing Kratom I lost half of my hair. I'm a female in her 30s with zero history of hair loss on both sides of my family. When I stopped using Kratom 11 months ago, my hair started growing back when I was about 60 days clean. My hair has not recovered completely, but it's so much better and continues to get better.
I have no scientific evidence to back this up, but I really think Kratom wreaks havoc on our glands and hormones."

"Congratulations on two days off!! I totally feel your pain with the hair loss. After about 6 months of regular use, my hair has started falling out more. I see it in the drain and all over my clothes, when I never noticed it before. Especially since i'm only a 24 year old female, and all my blood work showed up normal."

"I've been using Kratom for 9 months daily. I started from 2g per dose 3x a day (1-5 months) to 8-12g once a day(last 3.5 months). I recently cut my hair and noticed my scalp is more exposed in two areas of my head. I've never experienced any kind of drastic hair loss prior to this. I seriously feel like this must have started just within the last couple of months.
Does Kratom affect thyroid or adrenal fatigue in some people? There is such an overwhelming amount of information on hair loss that I figure I try this place for some input since this is the only thing that I've added to my lifestyle in the last 9 months or so."

"First, I think that USING kratom causes adrenal fatigue, not quitting kratom. I believe that my body is now repairing itself now that I've quit. Regarding post quitting symptoms of adrenal fatigue, I was referring to hair loss, acne and constipation issues, NOT actual fatigue!!! Adrenal fatigue occurs when your adrenal gland is overstimulated, which I believe kratom does. Emotionally and physically I feel 1000x better since I've quit kratom. I'm really happy and optimistic. Much less tired than I was on kratom. Sleeping better than ever. Anxiety is at zero, when I was taking Kratom I was having panic attacks with increasing frequency. Again, I think adrenal fatigue is what happens when you are using kratom, not after you quit.
So I've been doing a lot of research and it seems like most of the negative effects I experienced with Kratom can be largely attributed to its effect on the adrenal gland (low blood pressure, shakes, hormonal acne, hair loss, panic attacks, weird adrenaline rushes when falling asleep etc etc).


"I, too, visited with an endocrinologist earlier this year when I just didn't feel like myself after nearly 9 months of daily kratom. My tests showed a significant drop in free testosterone. My libido has not been the same since I started back up on kratom May 2015."


"Yes, I've experienced a lot of those symptoms and I believe Kratom wreaks havoc on our glands and hormones. It made my thyroid go psycho. But unfortunately even though I was symptomatic, nothing showed up on the blood work. I was discussing this with another quitter yesterday. It seems this stuff puts some of us in adrenal fatigue and affects the thyroid. I'm glad your going to the doctor. Hopefully you'll be able to get to the bottom of this.
For the most part, all of my symptoms have cleared up since quitting. I'm 11 months kratom free, but my hormones/glands aren't quite back to normal yet. Take care and keep us posted! "


"It was thinning out all over as best I could tell. I've got really thick, curly hair so it can be hard to tell, but I didn't notice any bald spots. About 5 months of daily use, I started to notice more hair shedding than normal like in the shower or when I brushed it. Then it got really noticeable. Scary noticeable. I'd brush my hair once, and fill the entire brush with hair.
During this time I went to the doctor and had a bunch of tests run on my thyroid and hormones. Nothing showed up. But I have since learned that some of those tests aren't very accurate. I have a friend who has Graves Disease. It's an autoimmune disorder that attacks the thyroid and makes it go haywire. It took her 15 years to get it properly diagnoised. The reason I bring this up is not to be surprised if you get the tests and they come back normal. That's what happened to me even though I hit almost all of the major symptoms of a thyroid disorder."

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

For me personally, Kratom was a massively risky drug. Not because of health risks directly caused by Kratom toxicity, but because it was absolutely the gateway drug that led me to start taking stronger and stronger opiates. It was kratom that opened my eyes to nodding, then down the rabbit hole I went.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

For me personally, Kratom was a massively risky drug. Not because of health risks directly caused by Kratom toxicity, but because it was absolutely the gateway drug that led me to start taking stronger and stronger opiates. It was kratom that opened my eyes to nodding, then down the rabbit hole I went.

I know a lot of opiate addicts who tried to use Kratom to get off of oxy, dope, etc. But the Kratom just wound up being another drug or opiate that they became addicted to, and they did relapse on the opiates they were attempting to get sober/clean from.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Its very interesting that you mention hormonal/thyroid problems. I've been using daily for about 7 months, and just recently doctors thought I might have developed a thyroid disorder (lots of similar symptoms).

But I had extensive blood work done and everything came back normal. Cutting back on all drug use, kratom included, has subsided my symptoms. I can't be certain that it was kratom, and I can't even be sure if my symptoms were a serious problem of any sort, but cutting back (not out) has pretty much solved the problems.

 

[ordinary mind]

FWIW I was using kratom daily for about a month and a half earlier this year. During this time, I noticed I would regularly wake up with the arm that I was sleeping on (I always fall asleep in the same position) completely numb - as if the blood flow had been severely restricted. Once this had happened once during the nighttime, it would be difficult for me to get back to sleep as even after getting the circulation going again in my arm, it would quickly become completely numb once I reassumed my sleeping position. When I tried to sleep on my other side, the same thing would happen with my other arm. This sensation of numbness was pretty 'severe' in that it would be difficult to move my fingers until I'd got the circulation going again for a bit, and generally felt extreme enough to cause concern.

I have no idea what this means, possibly related to blood pressure or vasoconstriction/dilation? What I do know for sure is I didn't experience these symptoms prior to taking kratom, and they cleared up as soon as I swapped my kratom habit for butyr-fentanyl (not a recommendation!).

 

[headfuck123]

Ive been using kratom for the past 3 years on and off, sometimes for up to 5 months at a time usually at around 3g but sometimes up to 10g a day. Ive noticed decreased libido and constipation but this was expected with opiate like drugs.

One symptom that did cause me some concern was a strange pressure in my ear or almost like the volume was tunred down in one ear and I think this may be something to do with blood pressue. That symptom rarely happened but when it did it always went away once the kratom weared off. This also happened to me when I used subutex so it may also be a general symptom from opiates in general and not just kratom.

I have had blood tests whiched checked my liver (for a seprate issue) and tests came back completely fine despite the fact that i'm a polydrug user (abuser).

I also feel that some liver and kidney issues with kratom may be due to dehydration as its common that people dont drink enough water as it is never mind when using a drug known to cause dehydration.

I'll be following this thread as I am a big fan of kratom and im open to any information that it may be negatively affecting my health in ways other than expected as i do use it very regualrly especially the past few months.