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Opioids Am I in for nasty opiate WD?

S

sm0kestack

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
356
What's up everyone? I am just looking for a matter of opinion here. I am very experienced with opiate usage and opiate withdrawal. I have been to detox several times, and have done cold turkey WD in jails cells multiple times, but during the last year or so my use of both opiates and bupe, pretty much has not ceased at all completely.

A little background if my opiate usage up until about a year ago. I first struggled with opiate dependency from when I acquired an OC habit back in February 2009. From there, inevitably I moved up to shooting OC and heroin both. In 2009 I had also became familiar with suboxone. Since then I had quite a few withdrawals and dry time from multiple incarcerations and prison stints. The longest one being a 2 year stretch which ended in October 2013.

Fast forward to about a year ago, July 2015. I had never been legally on suboxone, and decided I would give it a shot. So I got into a program. I started on 8mg per day, but never really actually took that much the average I would take usually was 6-8mg per day, most of it by IV ROA. I stuck through this program for 2½ months before getting discharged because I relapsed. I relapsed for 1½ months, using anywhere from as little as .1g to as high as .5g of usually medium-high grade H per day. I would still use subs for those rainy days as a bridge, still usually no more than 6mg.

Fast forward to November 2015. Of course, my H use started getting the best of me again, and I managed to get into yet another sub program. They prescribed me 16mg/day, and of course I know this is overkill and I just stuck with what I usually took 6-8mg/day. I did pretty good in this program, I managed to abstain from heroin for almost 5months, with just 2 small slips.

Fast forward more to March 2016. A series of events led me to get uncontrollable cravings and urges to get high. I relapsed again. I quit that program, and started seeing another doctor. A cash doctor once a month, and of course, I only used my subs on those rainy days as a bridge when $$ wasn't right. My habit size still the same amount as before. Anywhere from .1g-.5g/day average quality dope. It has been like this up until now.

About a month ago, I had failed a UA, and my insurance won't pay for my suboxone script no more, and I can't afford to pay straight out of pocket. I had just IVd my last 1mg of sub almost 18 hours ago. Sunday I had used 8mg SL route, then 2mg IV, so 10mg total. Monday I IVd 6mg in 3 2mg intervals. Tuesday I IVd 4mg, 2mg 12hours apart. Wednesday (yesterday) I IVd 1.8mg at noon, then 1.2mg at 8pm at night.

Today I have nothing, it is now 130pm, and I notice some slight WD symptoms coming. That flushed skin burning feeling like I'm a little hot, and I have slight sniffles, but nothing bad by any means. I know the bupe usage of the last few days is still holding me. But I was just wondering if I just decided to jump off now, what kind of WD do you guys think I would be in for? And when do you think it would start and how long do you think it would last? Do you think going and scoring H is imminent? I am already starting to have slight cravings. I really just want off everything, this shit has become a lifestyle to me and I have lost so many friends (12 in less than 2 years). Makes me fear that I may be next.

Throw me some opinions, I appreciate it folks. Thanks.
 
It's pretty difficult to truly estimate how bad your withdrawals are going to be. Hopping off of Opioid Maintenance abruptly is not an ideal situation, but alas, for many of us it's just how things end up. After all we are addicts. Also, jumping off abruptly is (unfortunately) causes an extreme provocation to relapse, with the added negative of an already high tolerance.

Buprenorphine withdrawal is characterized mainly by its protracted nature. The most common complain I hear from fellow Opioid addicts who have had to quit long-term Buprenorphine maintenance is that the withdrawal symptoms tend to linger for a very long time, moreso than with Methadone, which is a shorter, ableit probably more intense withdrawal experience.

I think your best bet would be to try to get involved with another program somehow. Maybe there are subsidies or assistance available in your state that you aren't currently aware of. Then, even if you don't get back on maintenance, you can do a slower more controlled detox from Buprenorphine, which will minimize your discomfort and your risk of relapsing on other Opioids once finished.

I have plenty of experience with Methadone Maintenance and although it's different in some ways from Buprenorphine, one thing in which both sides of the coin are in agreement upon, is the exteneded nature of the withdrawal. I can say, that as an addict, if I were to be suddenly cut-off from Methadone, it would take a literal miracle to keep me from relapsing.
 
Right. I am aware of how drawn out the WD can be from bupe and methadone because of their long halflives. I had experienced a small taste of it in January 2014 when I had taken subs for 2-3 weeks before checking into a sober living facility. The WD took several days to hit, they weren't intense, but lingered for several weeks, which led me to cop bupe and sneak usage while I was in there. I used bupe in there 3 days a week or so for a while before I absconded and went on another 3 month heroin run before winding up in handcuffs again and going thru another nasty cold turkey WD. Man that was a bad one. Heh.

That's my point though, in the past I haven't made it longer than maybe a few months before I was forced to go all the way thru a Withdrawal. Now it's been over a year, and I have always been on an opiate, whether pills, bupe, or heroin. Went to a couple detoxes before, but always still came out sick when discharged. I think a detox could be an option, but they have lengthy wait lists. Who knows what I would do before I got in. Ya know?

Thanks for your input Kief.
 
Yeah at those doses you'll feel the full extent of bupe WD. It could take 2-3 days for the onset of wds to occur. And they could last up to 3-4/weeks, albeit milder symptoms than full agonist opioid WD. I would either try taper further down with bupe, and jumping from the .125mg range, or switch over to H, and stick to a taper regiment, and jump from that. This is more difficult, because it involves self control, most of us addicts do not have, but if done successfully, the WDs are a lot easier to endure, and are vastly shorter in duration than bupe WD.


- Hopeless Soul
 
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Yeah, the whole reason I started this thread is cuz my insurance won't cover my subs because I had a couple dirty urine. I used the last bit of my bupe yesterday, and money is going to be pretty dry, so getting them off the street is gonna be hard, as well as scoring H itself. So I am trying to get a few opinions on what I am to expect. Sux my appointment with my doctor is still 6 days away, so acquiring any comfort meds is out of range til then as well. Sux. Looks like a day and night or of cold turkey fun is gonna be in store for me. :))))
 
7nos-SS373dOH said:
Yeah at those doses you'll feel the full extent of bupe WD. It could take 2-3 days for the onset of wds to occur. And they could last up to 3-4/weeks, albeit milder symptoms than full agonist opioid WD. I would either try taper further down with bupe, and jumping from the .125mg range, or switch over to H, and stick to a taper regiment, and jump from that. This is more difficult, because it involves self control, most of us addicts do not have, but if done successfully, the WDs are a lot easier to endure, and are vastly shorter in duration than bupe WD.



- Hopeless Soul
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So which do you find more difficult? At one point your saying bupe WD's are milder, but then say H, a full agonist is "a lot easier to endure" then Bupe WD. Bupe WD is longer..but certainly a full agonist like Dope is a harsher WD, no?
 
wow. I've relapsed more than once and failed UAs for various reasons way more times than that and my sub doctor has always been very understanding and never so much as hinted that I would be at risk of being cut off.
 
I highly recommend trying mmt. Bupe didn't work for nne either. I relapsed too. However, I find mmt controls cravings better and is a stricter program. That's what I needed. Bupe enables me to continue my addict behavior. I had too much control and needed it taken away in order to give me enough time to change my behavior too. If that makes any sense! Try mmt what do you have to lose at this point? Sorry for typos driving shame on me!
 
If you honestly did use 6-8 mg per day mostly IV that would equate to about 24 mg SL. So the idea that 6-8 mg of sub is "not much" is inaccurate. Thankfully if your addiction history is not that long hopefully your WD's will be manageable.
 
OP, I understand you're a long way out from your Doctor's appointment. Regardless of your insurance, if things were to get really sticky for you, you could always go to an emergency department. As you're probably aware, they are required to treat you and will probably send you out with at least something like Clonidine, maybe some better shit. It's up to the discretion of the Doctor and how well you are able to present your symptoms.

What I got one time for my withdrawal at the ED. Bear in mind, I was really selling it well: .1mg Clonidine X 21 - Odansetron (Zofran) 2mg X 14 - Lorazepam (Ativan) .5mg X 21

You could go to the ED and tell them specifically what's going on. How you have an appointment with your Doctor in about 6 days, you're unable to eat or sleep, are vomiting constantly, you're delirious from dehydration etc. Although Opioid withdrawal isn't usually deadly, medical professionals can't help treating things like dehydration and nausea as they can lead to more serious complications.
 
This is day 2, and surprisingly the bupe from those 4 days is still holding me a bit, although it is definitely leaving my body for sure. It's been 42 hours since my last shot of bupe, which was about ~1.1mg.

I forgot I do have a little bit of clonidine stashed away. Usually this medication gets me feeling about 20% better, better than 0% I suppose. I also hate the dry mouth it gives me. But it does definitely help with the sweating, which is one of the most annoying aspects of WD for me, it doesn't really do Shit for RLS for me though...
 
Insurance companies. What fuckers. Would they deny a diabetic their insulin for eating a donut?


I went through Suboxone w/d in a locked psych ward. I was taking a prescribed 24 mg po q 24h. I never abused it, took more than prescribed, injected it, sold it for H, etc.. No taper, the "doctor" thought I didn't need it any longer, so he cut me off cold turkey. At 24 mg, it took about one week to start in earnest. And it was a bitch, but it didn't kill me. It was the shaking and the chills that were the worst. And as hard as it was, it wasn't ANYTHING like kicking the IV fentanyl and morphine habit I had prior to starting Suboxone. And I had a harder time kicking gabapentin than Suboxone, fentanyl, or morphine COMBINED so avoid that shit like the plague.


Plan on lots of hot baths. If you can get your hands on some Zofran for nausea you'll be in a much better place. I think that you'll find the fear of w/d is worse than the w/d itself.
 
sm0kestack said:
This is day 2, and surprisingly the bupe from those 4 days is still holding me a bit, although it is definitely leaving my body for sure. It's been 42 hours since my last shot of bupe, which was about ~1.1mg.

I forgot I do have a little bit of clonidine stashed away. Usually this medication gets me feeling about 20% better, better than 0% I suppose. I also hate the dry mouth it gives me. But it does definitely help with the sweating, which is one of the most annoying aspects of WD for me, it doesn't really do Shit for RLS for me though...
Click to expand...

hey man 2 weeks ago i went to a local hospital that has a psych floor, i went there and told them i want to get clean but detox is impossible by itself and you got to tell them you have a suicide plan. they held me about 80 hours and medicated me pretty good with clonidine patches and pills/ seerax(SPELLING)/ AND VITAMINS AND SARAQUIL. i felt about 80% while i was there. the first 2 nights i slept great the last 2 nights i only slept a couple hours but as far as the W/D symptoms i didnt have many. but i tell you what when i walked out the door and hit the outside air the craving to use hit me SO FN HARD!!! i ended up eating a few Ps then just copped a small amount of H a day. so i didnt get 100% clean but it took me from a 3.5G/5G of fentanyl a day to right now im doing a tenth of H a day. so those 4 days saved me a ton of money and possibly my life.
 
Do you think high doses of loperamide could help?
 
I have thought about high doses of lope, but am pretty skeptical of it, and fearing the side effects. I do not even know what dose I would start that stuff at.

As for the psych ward, I have been thru that once, very bad experience. They pretty much had me cold turkey it. I had to fight tooth and nail just for them to give me an ativan to sleep on. From there I went straight to a detox, and I was OK there until they cut me off the buprenex shot, then I felt like shit again, and right upon being discharged I went and copped dope. Terrible experience.
 
i fully understand. its like a revolving door. i cant wait till the day im free from this.
 
Tinker55 said:
As discussed frequently, high dose lope is cardiotoxic. Having an arrhythmia is frequently fatal, unlike opiod withdrawal.
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i've read this elsewhere on the boards recently as well- makes me nervous because i do end up taking a lot of lope when i'm feeling shitty. is the cardiotoxicity a risk for all, or is it for people with pre-existing heart conditions? beginning to think twice about lope as an option. it's just such a hassle to get other alternatives like subs, clonidine, pretty much any prescription - compared to walking into a CVS for a bottle of lope lol.
 
You serious smoke? LoL U know you are gonna feel like crap dude! I agree with Keif tho, definetly try to taper as long as you can stand or afford and then jump off at 1mg or less(volumetric dosing). Lope has helped me in the past, and i still take a lot of kratom as more of a maintenance thing... I didnt need to take nearly as much lope as some people though. Start low if you go that route. Main thing it took away was insomnia. If you sleep during wd the wd doesn't kick your a$$ as much IME. I think i was taking 14 mg every 5-6 hrz.
 
where are you getting the kratom from? doesn't need to be specific - like, internet? smoke shop? only asking because i've been looking but have had no luck.
 
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