It is a semi-permanent tolerance, as long as you continue it will continue to build up and up.
Hence why it takes forever after detoxing subs for you to feel an opiate completely.
Just dip your finger in vodka rub under your toungue place the film under it , it blew me away first time tryed
Dont use alcohol, just use water it works just as well, if you want a better flavor than you can even use listerine but all that matters is that it is in a solution.really now? so why would OP go through all trouble of using cotton balls to put under your tongue and soak them etc.. I guess even dipping a Q-tip in alcohol and rubbing it all under your tongue then throwing it under there would be more ideal for cleanliness, but your theory does make more since if the idea is to just simply deliver the bupe via an alcoholic solution, correct?
HI FELLOW BLUE LIGHTERS. THIS IS MY FIRST POST AND VERY IMPORTANT IF POSSIBLE I GET AN ANSWER ASAP, THANK YOU SOO MUCH. PREF ANSWERED BY CAPTAIN HEROIN OR 6PARTSEVEN PLEASE ANSWER I NEED TO KNOW.
ANYWAYS I WAS JUST PUT ON ZUBSOLV 5.7-1.4 MG Tab. NOW MY QUESTION IS CAN YOU DO THE ALCOHOL METHOD WITH ZUBSOLV, BECAUSE BEFORE I WAS PUT ON THESE I WAS BUYING SUBOXONE STRIPS OFF THE STREETS AND DOING THE ALCOHOL METHOD TO HIGHER THE BA NOW IT WORKED AMAZING WITH THE SUBS, BUT ... DOES THIS SAME METHOD WORK AND APPYLY TO ZUBSOLV PLEASE HELP, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH, AND SORRY IF I DID THIS WRONG THIS IS MY FIRST EVER POST.
"already established" -??? A couple threads with references to a Reckitt-Benckiser study is most definitely not "established."^ Huh? We've already established long ago that alcohol increases buprenorphines bioavailibility.. Did you read the first page of this thread? Do you have any evidence to prove the first page wrong?
(From Lorne)^ Huh? We've already established long ago that alcohol increases buprenorphines bioavailibility.. Did you read the first page of this thread? Do you have any evidence to prove the first page wrong?
Doesn't the consistent BA across studies with ethanol and then water solutions disprove that has any effect? I mean how exactly would that work, is alcohol a local vasodilator? To me it seems to be a vasodilator only with regards to oral ingestion (I guess you could absorb it sublingually as well but by the time it absorbed the sub would've absorbed as well so it wouldn't be relevant either way) and not in regards to mere skin (or tongue) contact.^ethanol is a vasodilator.. and the second link from post #1 are evidence.. although that link is no longer working..
Yeah I read what lorne wrote..
Haha...The longest running placebo goes to...
The exact mechanism of zubsolv is probably patented but I'd assume its just a more efficiently dissolving pill matrix, the primary reason for lacking BA in sublingual buprenorphine is that it is very easy for a user to swallow part of the dose as it takes regular pills too long to dissolve. There may be an effect the listerine has on your mouth's salival conditions, in the sense that it makes you salivate at a greater rate making your dose absorb faster and thus increasing its BA, however if you're already making a solution I don't see why this would have any more than a negligible impact. I would also remind you that having a more distinct method of administration (such as washing your mouth with listerine) creates a more significant ritual around dosing that your brain easily has the capacity to pick up on and utilize as a sort of placebo, in the sense that if you are accustomed to using listerine, even if you maintain dosing with a solution, the missing part of the ritual may distort your brain's perception of the drug, making it seem as though the dose is less effective when in reality it was equipotent (but that's just my own speculation).(From Lorne)
"I don't know why this hasn't gotten through to people; YOU DO NOT NEED TO USE ETHANOL TO INCREASE BUPE BA%.
Ethanol was used in the original study, for whatever reason,(probably solubility?) but subsequent studies using plain H2O have gotten the same results, increasing BA by 1.5-1.75x, regardless of the presence of alcohol.
But never mind that. The very existence of Zubsolv(roughly 1.5x as potent as bupe itself) proves that you don't need alcohol.
And no, it's no magic ingredient in Zubsolv; it's simply that they dissolve MUCH more rapidly than suboxone(and they're smaller).
Look it up yourself. Nothing special, the menthol is merely a flavoring. And they certainly do not contain ethanol.
It was suggested from the beginning by researchers that the increased BA from the solution was because it absorbed rapidly, with the small amount of ethanol present being coincidental. Other thought it was the ethanol, sure, but ultimately, the former group was proven right.
I have posted various proof of this earlier in the thread, check yourselves. But again, it is all entirely irrelevant, with the existence of Zubsolv, who's own site says the increased BA is because of more rapid absorption.
I respect sixpart7, and his intentions were good, but it is now outdated data. Sticking freaking 40% Ethanol under your tongue is painful and unnecessary.
For an increase in potency(and a faster onset) simply dissolve your dose in 0.5-1ml of water,(either soon or shot glass, and then administer it directly under the tongue. Hold for at least 5 minutes(or as long as you want) and voila, your bupe dose is now significantly more potent. It's that simple.
BTW, I doubt even the original study used 40%abv, that's harsh.
Anyway, if anyone can find anything to dispute that, or more importantly, any unknown reason why alcohol free Zubsolve is more potent, feel free. But please, don't just stand on tradition and say "NO!" in the face of clear and logical evidence.
A final word: if you want to continue using an ethanolic solution, fine by me, it's your tongue, and your body. At least think on it, and lower the abv. Again, 40% seems like it woul be difficult to hold in the first place.
Oh, and when it comes to liquid solutions, studies state that, beyond a few minutes, the amount of time the solution is held doesn't seem to matter, though I still would hold mine as long as possible..."