Bupe Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use

thedukeofraoul

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It is a semi-permanent tolerance, as long as you continue it will continue to build up and up.

Hence why it takes forever after detoxing subs for you to feel an opiate completely.

it is harsh as hell letting that alcoholic solution sit under your tongue even if they're in cotton-balls, it's still hellacious burning, however, I do feel like it's starting to work a lot quicker than normal sublingual
 

NewYork631

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Just dip your finger in vodka rub under your toungue place the film under it , it blew me away first time tryed
 
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thedukeofraoul

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Just dip your finger in vodka rub under your toungue place the film under it , it blew me away first time tryed

really now? so why would OP go through all trouble of using cotton balls to put under your tongue and soak them etc.. I guess even dipping a Q-tip in alcohol and rubbing it all under your tongue then throwing it under there would be more ideal for cleanliness, but your theory does make more since if the idea is to just simply deliver the bupe via an alcoholic solution, correct?
 

dirzted

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really now? so why would OP go through all trouble of using cotton balls to put under your tongue and soak them etc.. I guess even dipping a Q-tip in alcohol and rubbing it all under your tongue then throwing it under there would be more ideal for cleanliness, but your theory does make more since if the idea is to just simply deliver the bupe via an alcoholic solution, correct?
Dont use alcohol, just use water it works just as well, if you want a better flavor than you can even use listerine but all that matters is that it is in a solution.
 

SS373dOH

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^ Huh? We've already established long ago that alcohol increases buprenorphines bioavailibility.. Did you read the first page of this thread? Do you have any evidence to prove the first page wrong?
 

thedukeofraoul

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HI FELLOW BLUE LIGHTERS. THIS IS MY FIRST POST AND VERY IMPORTANT IF POSSIBLE I GET AN ANSWER ASAP, THANK YOU SOO MUCH. PREF ANSWERED BY CAPTAIN HEROIN OR 6PARTSEVEN PLEASE ANSWER I NEED TO KNOW.
ANYWAYS I WAS JUST PUT ON ZUBSOLV 5.7-1.4 MG Tab. NOW MY QUESTION IS CAN YOU DO THE ALCOHOL METHOD WITH ZUBSOLV, BECAUSE BEFORE I WAS PUT ON THESE I WAS BUYING SUBOXONE STRIPS OFF THE STREETS AND DOING THE ALCOHOL METHOD TO HIGHER THE BA NOW IT WORKED AMAZING WITH THE SUBS, BUT ... DOES THIS SAME METHOD WORK AND APPYLY TO ZUBSOLV PLEASE HELP, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH, AND SORRY IF I DID THIS WRONG THIS IS MY FIRST EVER POST.


Zubsolv 5.7/1.4mg are junk. They will barely even help with your cravings. Just a heads up.. Tell your doc you looked online and they make an 8.6/2.1mg version of Zubsolv you'd prefer. I know they say the 5.7/1.4mg are bioavailability equivalent to 8/2mg Suboxone strips/tablets, but IMO/IME, it's not.

However, to answer your question, yes. You can use this method with minty Zubsolv :)
 

dirzted

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^ Huh? We've already established long ago that alcohol increases buprenorphines bioavailibility.. Did you read the first page of this thread? Do you have any evidence to prove the first page wrong?
"already established" -??? A couple threads with references to a Reckitt-Benckiser study is most definitely not "established."

Did YOU read Lorne's posts? He pretty much says it all, I mean just thinking about it logically how in any way would alcohol potentiate the administration?
Anecdotally (which isn't worth shit but hey why not) I can tell there is absolutely no difference in perceived effects in my own use of this and I've been doing this method for multiple years lol
I'm def interested in seeing evidence to the contrary tho throw it at me if you got it
Thanks
 

dirzted

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^ Huh? We've already established long ago that alcohol increases buprenorphines bioavailibility.. Did you read the first page of this thread? Do you have any evidence to prove the first page wrong?
(From Lorne)

"I don't know why this hasn't gotten through to people; YOU DO NOT NEED TO USE ETHANOL TO INCREASE BUPE BA%.

Ethanol was used in the original study, for whatever reason,(probably solubility?) but subsequent studies using plain H2O have gotten the same results, increasing BA by 1.5-1.75x, regardless of the presence of alcohol.

But never mind that. The very existence of Zubsolv(roughly 1.5x as potent as bupe itself) proves that you don't need alcohol.

And no, it's no magic ingredient in Zubsolv; it's simply that they dissolve MUCH more rapidly than suboxone(and they're smaller).

Look it up yourself. Nothing special, the menthol is merely a flavoring. And they certainly do not contain ethanol.

It was suggested from the beginning by researchers that the increased BA from the solution was because it absorbed rapidly, with the small amount of ethanol present being coincidental. Other thought it was the ethanol, sure, but ultimately, the former group was proven right.

I have posted various proof of this earlier in the thread, check yourselves. But again, it is all entirely irrelevant, with the existence of Zubsolv, who's own site says the increased BA is because of more rapid absorption.

I respect sixpart7, and his intentions were good, but it is now outdated data. Sticking freaking 40% Ethanol under your tongue is painful and unnecessary.

For an increase in potency(and a faster onset) simply dissolve your dose in 0.5-1ml of water,(either soon or shot glass, and then administer it directly under the tongue. Hold for at least 5 minutes(or as long as you want) and voila, your bupe dose is now significantly more potent. It's that simple.

BTW, I doubt even the original study used 40%abv, that's harsh.

Anyway, if anyone can find anything to dispute that, or more importantly, any unknown reason why alcohol free Zubsolve is more potent, feel free. But please, don't just stand on tradition and say "NO!" in the face of clear and logical evidence.

A final word: if you want to continue using an ethanolic solution, fine by me, it's your tongue, and your body. At least think on it, and lower the abv. Again, 40% seems like it woul be difficult to hold in the first place.

Oh, and when it comes to liquid solutions, studies state that, beyond a few minutes, the amount of time the solution is held doesn't seem to matter, though I still would hold mine as long as possible..."
 

SS373dOH

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^ethanol is a vasodilator.. and the second link from post #1 are evidence.. although that link is no longer working..

Yeah I read what lorne wrote..
 

JJN

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I just tried this alcohol method, with 4mg of Suboxone film and maybe 6ml of vodka. Let it dissolve for a couple of minutes, stirred it around, and put the liquid into my mouth. At first I was like "oh, this is ok, it's not that much liquid".. well, my mouth quickly became full of saliva mixed with the vodka. The amount of liquid felt like it doubled in size within 5 minutes of me swishing it around. I tried my best not to swallow.. at around 6 minutes I swallowed a tiny bit, then every minute or so later i swallowed a tiny little bit (couldn't control it).. by 8 minutes I couldn't take it anymore and had to swallow the rest. I was getting nauseous just from the amount of saliva in my mouth.

Tomorrow I'm going to try it with much less liquid. maybe 2ml, just enough to get it to dissolve. I'm not sure if I just lost my 4mg dose of suboxone, though.. hm.
 

dirzted

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^ethanol is a vasodilator.. and the second link from post #1 are evidence.. although that link is no longer working..

Yeah I read what lorne wrote..
Doesn't the consistent BA across studies with ethanol and then water solutions disprove that has any effect? I mean how exactly would that work, is alcohol a local vasodilator? To me it seems to be a vasodilator only with regards to oral ingestion (I guess you could absorb it sublingually as well but by the time it absorbed the sub would've absorbed as well so it wouldn't be relevant either way) and not in regards to mere skin (or tongue) contact.
 

A.F.B.EsquHigher

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.

Hey,
... I know the last post is very old, actually older than the last time I went through Suboxone maintenance 2 years ago, I didn't even know of this thread let alone the info that's in it...
...well long story short I was 'good' for a bit but now I'm back on Suboxone...
...on 8mgs single dose per day, and the info on here has helped me out..
..my method is actually quite simple, I guess it's just the easy way but works really well..
...so ..., I have to pick up my dose daily, and now they actually cut the pill in half and you have to drop it under your tongue right there.. but that's not really an issue, if I don't want my dose that day, i just dry my mouth out and go in, then spit the 2 pieces out when I get to my car and throw them into a script bottle that I have an anti-moister pack in, works pretty good, I also have it taped up with metallic tape as I know buprinorphine is photo sensitive..
...anyways...
...sorry for the ramble...
...yea, so here in Canada we have an over proof, percent in Canada, vodka that's %75 alcohol, so I have a little dropper bottle that I'll fill with the vodka, once I get back to the car, with the Suboxone under my tongue, I'll squirt a few drops under my tongue with it. I notice the first squirt absorbs really quickly, so, I'll squirt a couple more, then wait a little , doesn't take long,for that to absorb either, then finally a couple more drops...
...it works really well, I have no problems keeping the mixture under my tongue, and if saliva starts to build up, I will open my mouth, still holding the mixture under my tongue, I create a seal with my cheek and tongue to my teeth and gums, I will kind of hold the tip of my tongue up, keep my mouth open, and breath through my mouth,for about 10 min tops, this starts drying out the mixture and sinks it into where it needs to go...
...I'll do this for about 10 minutes, and you can tell when there is no orange flavour left in that mixture, you can kind of taste what's in your mouth the whole time, I'll swallow the mixture, which would be mostly just your saliva as there is no alcohol or orange flavour left in that mixture..
..this has worked for me really good, the Suboxone kicks in way quicker, and is stronger..
...so , yea...
...that's what I do
 

A.F.B.EsquHigher

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^^^^whoops sorry, I read that wrong, the last post wasn't over 2 years ago, sorry for that...but yea, this thread is way older than the last time I was on Suboxone for 6 months, 2 years ago , and the last time I certainly didn't know of this method...
...but the info I found here has helped substantially... So thank you very much
...and..
.sorry again
 

Kaiser De Quincey

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There are no dumb questions, right?Could you swish mouthwash in your mouth as a prep. Spit it out then take a strip of Suboxone and dip it halfway or 3/4th way in a cap full of high proof alcohol and place it under your tongue like normal?
 

Jabberwocky

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Yup, basically. For whatever reason I found Listerine to work a little better than 40-80% ethanol solution, but I rather hate alcohol. Either way, similar principle applies.
 

Lorne???

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The longest running placebo goes to...
Haha...

You and Dirtzed understood that ethanol is unnecessary and slightly ridiculous.

Plenty of evidence to support NOT putting 100 proof Vodka under your tongue.


Hey, who are we to stop them?

Those interested, Zubsolv confirms significant increase in BA, no ethanol needed : )
 

Jabberwocky

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^how so? I definitely noticed a huge improvement in how my body absorb the buprenorphine (in strips) when I washed my mouth out with Listerine (which has ethanol in it).

Was that just making it absorb easier and didn't actually increase the BA? I could have sworn is made a huge difference between that and just holding it in my mouth.

Maybe I just sucked at holding it properly in my mouth given how much longer it would dissolve when I didn't use Listerine first, and so I lost some of the medication that way when I didn't use Listerine.

And what is it that allows Zubsolv to dissolve more effectively than Suboxone? I always wondered if there was a different sort of delivery mechanism used in the two meds.
 

dirzted

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Toothpastedog:

(From Lorne)

"I don't know why this hasn't gotten through to people; YOU DO NOT NEED TO USE ETHANOL TO INCREASE BUPE BA%.

Ethanol was used in the original study, for whatever reason,(probably solubility?) but subsequent studies using plain H2O have gotten the same results, increasing BA by 1.5-1.75x, regardless of the presence of alcohol.

But never mind that. The very existence of Zubsolv(roughly 1.5x as potent as bupe itself) proves that you don't need alcohol.

And no, it's no magic ingredient in Zubsolv; it's simply that they dissolve MUCH more rapidly than suboxone(and they're smaller).

Look it up yourself. Nothing special, the menthol is merely a flavoring. And they certainly do not contain ethanol.

It was suggested from the beginning by researchers that the increased BA from the solution was because it absorbed rapidly, with the small amount of ethanol present being coincidental. Other thought it was the ethanol, sure, but ultimately, the former group was proven right.

I have posted various proof of this earlier in the thread, check yourselves. But again, it is all entirely irrelevant, with the existence of Zubsolv, who's own site says the increased BA is because of more rapid absorption.

I respect sixpart7, and his intentions were good, but it is now outdated data. Sticking freaking 40% Ethanol under your tongue is painful and unnecessary.

For an increase in potency(and a faster onset) simply dissolve your dose in 0.5-1ml of water,(either soon or shot glass, and then administer it directly under the tongue. Hold for at least 5 minutes(or as long as you want) and voila, your bupe dose is now significantly more potent. It's that simple.

BTW, I doubt even the original study used 40%abv, that's harsh.

Anyway, if anyone can find anything to dispute that, or more importantly, any unknown reason why alcohol free Zubsolve is more potent, feel free. But please, don't just stand on tradition and say "NO!" in the face of clear and logical evidence.

A final word: if you want to continue using an ethanolic solution, fine by me, it's your tongue, and your body. At least think on it, and lower the abv. Again, 40% seems like it woul be difficult to hold in the first place.

Oh, and when it comes to liquid solutions, studies state that, beyond a few minutes, the amount of time the solution is held doesn't seem to matter, though I still would hold mine as long as possible..."
The exact mechanism of zubsolv is probably patented but I'd assume its just a more efficiently dissolving pill matrix, the primary reason for lacking BA in sublingual buprenorphine is that it is very easy for a user to swallow part of the dose as it takes regular pills too long to dissolve. There may be an effect the listerine has on your mouth's salival conditions, in the sense that it makes you salivate at a greater rate making your dose absorb faster and thus increasing its BA, however if you're already making a solution I don't see why this would have any more than a negligible impact. I would also remind you that having a more distinct method of administration (such as washing your mouth with listerine) creates a more significant ritual around dosing that your brain easily has the capacity to pick up on and utilize as a sort of placebo, in the sense that if you are accustomed to using listerine, even if you maintain dosing with a solution, the missing part of the ritual may distort your brain's perception of the drug, making it seem as though the dose is less effective when in reality it was equipotent (but that's just my own speculation).
 
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