2C-D - First and Second Times - Revealing Tofu's Inner Light

Xorkoth

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Revealing Tofu's Inner Light
by Xorkoth


The following is a compilation of my first two 2C-D trips at psychedelic levels.

Trial #1
6-8-2019 - 35mg oral + 15mg booster at T+1 hour

I didn't take any notes at the time for this trip so this is from memory (though it's been less than a week). I had recently received some 2C-D HCl, after years of not bothering to get any in favor of other chemicals. I tried it at 5-10mg dosages orally and nasally for nootropic purposes back in 2006 or 2007, when I was given a sample by a friend. At the time the online community was suggesting that nootropic usage was its greatest and most worthwhile feature, rather than using it as a real psychedelic. I don't remember much about those experiences except that they were pleasant, and that I didn't really feel like they were nootropic so much as they provided me some energy and a feeling of novelty.

In any case, fast forward to 2019, almost a decade and a half later, and I find myself with 500mg of 2C-D. June 7th, the day of this first report, was the day after my 36th birthday. I had not consumed any psychedelics for about 3 weeks prior to this experience. I did consume phenibut the day before. I had binged a little on 2-FMA and 4-FMA for a week and a half or so, which ended about 10 days before this trip. The plan for the day was to bring 50mg of 2C-D with me in case I wanted to try it (though I was unsure if I would feel up to it), and my friend was coming over to pick me up and bring me to his house, where his girlfriend and another friend and I were all going to celebrate my birthday. I asked my friend to give me a moderate dose of 2-FMA, as I wanted to feel a little light stimulation. 2-FMA produces about the level of amphetamine effect as 10mg of Adderall, and it's pretty much impossible to get more out of it. Which is why I like it, it's not compulsive but it produces a light, clean euphoria, energy and motivation.

The times below are approximations, and begin right when my friend picks me up.

2:00pm (T-3:00) - I take 30mg of 2-FMA orally. My friend and I are going to the store to pick up some beers and food and cigarettes.

4:00pm (T-1:00) - I take 30mg more of 2-FMA, this time nasally, just to get a little extra energy as I woke up rather tired, and 2-FMA makes me feel more engaged and energetic. This slightly shifts the effects up a notch, but 2-FMA is subtle at any dosage so I don't feel high so much as I feel an increased desire to talk and move around. By this time I have finished one 7% beer.

4:30pm (T-0:30) - We smoke a bowl of weed for the first time today. It gets me high as expected. I also open another 7% beer and start drinking it slowly.

5:00pm (T+0:00) - I open up my foil packet of 50mg of 2C-D and eyeball about 35mg of it. Obviously the amount taken at first is not 100% accurate but I do end up taking the whole 50mg. The taste is bitter and 2C-X-like, in fact it's a taste I have come to associate with a lot of phenethylamines in general. It's really not bad at all, I chase it with a swig of beer. I head back outside to hang out with my friends and wait for this to take effect.

5:30pm (T+0:30) - I'm beginning to feel the 2C-D edging its way in as a warm euphoria adding to the light stimulation from the 2-FMA. I decide to sit down at my piano to play some music. I just got a new electric keyboard last night, and I've barely had time to try it out yet. I brought my keyboard stand, practice amp, keyboard and sustain pedal so I could play and provide entertainment for the party (but mostly for myself). I feel very inspired, and the playing is coming to me effortlessly and flowing beautifully. It's fully improvised. As my playing goes on, I lose myself in it, and I'll realize that I've just been somewhere quite abstract. It's like I start to think about something, and my mind tells me a story that the music is illustrating outwardly, and before long I am lost in pure emotion and unaware even of the physical act of playing, yet upon returning to awareness of the present, it feels like I have been processing something concrete and powerful.

6:00pm (T+1:00) - I take the other ~15mg, for a total of 50mg (the total is accurate as I weighed it). It takes me a few minutes to shake off the euphoria from playing and be able to communicate with people again.

6:30pm (T+1:30) - It's dinner time! We've made kebabs, one kind with beef and potatoes and peppers, and the other kind with chicken wrapped in bacon, plus pineapple and peppers. The food looks and smells delicious. Eating it is slightly weird, though, because my appetite is fairly suppressed. I'm unable to determine if this is from the 2-FMA or the 2C-D, but I suspect the 2-FMA because generally psychedelics don't affect my appetite anymore. At this point it does not feel like I'm on a stimulant, it feels only like I am on a psychedelic, a psychedelic that is energizing yet not precisely stimulating. I find myself holding 2 kebabs, one in each hand, like they're daggers. I spend an inordinate amount of time staring up close at the beef and other ingredients. It's not that I have visuals or that they look different, I just find it more interesting than usual to look at things. My friends observe how I'm holding my food and have a good laugh (as they know I took 2C-D and I was the only one to do so), which makes me blush slightly but doesn't bother me.

7:00pm (T+2:00) - Dinner is finished, and we decide to smoke weed again. Predictably, this really kicks the psychedelic in, plus the redose is probably kicking in about now. My friends and I begin to drink beer (slowly), smoke cigarettes, smoke spliffs, and have conversations. The conversations range across all sorts of topics and are very fulfilling for me. A lot of the discussion is either silly, or else focuses on the state of the world/the state of humanity/qualities of humans that we either like or dislike. I feel that I have a lot of insight into these areas, perhaps not more than usual, but I enjoy the way 2C-D is making me think about them, and also how it is causing me to choose to express my thoughts vocally. At one point my friend who I was conversing with told me that he feels really trippy and that he thinks I'm giving him a contact high. It's something I've been accused of a lot. It brings to mind the report that Shulgin wrote about 2C-I producing contact highs (well a friend of his wrote it but Shulgin addressed it), from the 2C-I entry of PIHKAL:

"QUALITATIVE COMMENTS (with 0 mg) I was present at a group meeting, but was only an observer. With zero milligrams of 2C-I, I was able to get to a delightful plus 2.5 in about five minutes after I arrived at your place, and absorbed the ambience of the folks who had actually imbibed the material. My level lasted about four hours and came down at about the same time as did the others. There were no after-effects experienced except for a pleasant languor."

The "contact high" is a known phenomenon that a lot of people scoff at, yet again and again it has happened with me. Generally people tell me I give them strongly. I have done experiments with friends who didn't know I was tripping, who have, unprompted, asked me why they felt like they had taken acid, why the clouds were morphing, why the carpet was moving, etc. It's a very curious thing.

As time goes on, whenever I am not directly addressed, I notice my thoughts getting farther and farther out. Some tangent from the conversation causes me to seem to recede into my own perceptions. Before long, without me realizing it, I lose all contact with my senses. I am no longer seeing what is around me or hearing what my friends are saying. But then someone will address me and I'll snap back to reality, my vision seeming to fade back in over the course of second or two, and I'll find myself replying to them as if there had been no interruption. But when I think about what had just been happening, it seems I was somewhere else entirely, seeing something abstract and unrelated to what I am seeing with my eyes open. And yet, when I'm not out there somewhere, there are no visual distortions at all.

The night continues like this, I'm having a lot of fun, and am slightly drunk but not much, and it doesn't seem to detract from the 2C-D at all. The body feeling is really nice. The whole state reminds me a good bit of 2C-E, except that it's far, far easier and more euphoric of an experience. 2C-E is heavy and ranges (in a short span of time) from anxious and heavy and unpleasant to euphoric and beautiful and amazing, and back again. 2C-D is pleasant and somewhat euphoric and easygoing the whole time, but the way it alters my mind and makes me feel is quite reminiscent of 2C-E all the same.

9:00pm (T+4:00) - My girlfriend arrives, and I feel slightly awkward as I hadn't told her about tripping today and telling her about it while I'm tripping feels awkward to me, so I don't, and that makes me feel self-conscious anyway. She is looking at me with a barely suppressed grin and later on I end up telling her and she isn't at all surprised, so I guess I appeared to be tripping from the outside. I'm not sure if it's my speech patterns or the appearance of my eyes, or facial expressions, or what. I adjust to her being there unexpectedly pretty quickly (I expected her to go home after work instead of come over), and stop feeling awkward. The trip has reduced in intensity but it's still going for sure, I definitely still feel trippy and euphoric, but I'm no longer getting pulled into abstract realms of thought where I lose touch with my surroundings.

10:30pm (T+5:30) - My girlfriend and I get in her car and she drives us home. It's a fun car ride, a bunch of weird late-night music is on the radio. We have an awesome local radio station that's all volunteer-run, no commercials ever, just every couple of hours a new show where people play the widest range of music I've ever heard anywhere pretty much, I don't think I've ever once heard the same thing twice on this radio station over the course of the past 6 years. The music suits my mood perfectly and we talk about it, and a variety of other things, and flirt a bit.

Once we get home, we hang out and watch a bit of TV, relax, talk, and then at about 1:00am (T+8:00), I fall asleep without much trouble, still feeling a slight glow. The next morning I feel great, and wake up with a smile on my face, and no traces of 2C-D still left in my perceptions.




Trial #2
6-12-2019 - 27mg oral

This second report was written during the trip, so the times are all accurate.

4:45pm (T+0:00) - Ingested 27mg of 2C-D orally. Tastes like other 2C-Xs, but perhaps less intense than others I've tried. I've got just a little bit of work to finish, about 45 minutes. That will give me a chance to test my ability to operate normally on this dose, while not sticking me with much work, so I can use the rest of the time to explore playing music and other pursuits. I just got a new keyboard (a Nord Electro 6D) and I need to learn how to program it and use some of the features, and then actually program it for my two bands so I can use it how I need to.

5:05pm (T+0:20) - First alert, a rather generic but pleasurable phenethylamine buzz. I feel more excited in general and I want to smile. There is a warm buzzing in my extremities. I feel a bit of an urge to clear my bowels that I associate with stimulants, though I don't feel particularly stimulated.

5:10pm (T+0:25) - This is building quickly. I find myself staring at a spot as I get absorbed in a thought, and then popping out of it. The problem at work I am thinking about seems more interesting than it did a few minutes ago, but I would prefer to be doing something else. Oh well, only 20 minutes to go.

5:30pm (T+0:45) - Glad to be done with work. It's not that it was hectic, it's just that I don't really want to be doing it, it seems like there are better things I could be doing (and there are, and I'm about to do them!) I'm about to smoke some weed (half THC flower, half CBD flower) to try to just kick it in a little bit more. Also since I would like to compare this with my higher dose last week, some weed during the trip is needed to establish the same baseline. I won't be adding any alcohol this time, however.

5:50pm (T+1:05) - The weed has amplified it as expected. I got pulled into Bluelight a little and am enjoying that but I'm about to start playing music instead. So far at this dose the state seems a little more "generic" than it did last time, but we'll see how it develops.

7:05pm (T+2:20) - At first when I started playing, I felt somewhat awkward and stiff, and I had to ease into it. But once I did, I've been really enjoying substantial musical enhancement. Not as great creatively as the trip from last week, but in terms of muscle control, I'm pretty sure that right now I'm playing better than I ever have been able to consistently. That is to say, I've done similar, but in small bursts. Now I can sustain that level and call on it at will. It's hard to say whether it's due to the 2C-D, or just because I play a lot and it's part of my natural improvement. I tend to get better in sudden jumps that then plateau off with spikes into the next level showing up and then after a while all of a sudden that level I had been touching on becomes the new baseline. Last week I felt that my technique was better under 2C-D's influence, and then at band practice a couple of days later, it was better and I felt like I'd reached another plateau in my playing. And now today I feel it is better, too. I can say with surety that 2C-D provides a lot of creative inspiration for playing music, and that it does not detract from the mechanical aspects of playing. In fact it feels like my brain and body are working very well together, it's quite effortless. It certainly at least provides the sensation that my playing technique is improved.

Besides the musical aspects of this trip, I am experiencing little twinges of anxiety. I've been trying to figure out why, and I don't think there is any particular reason. I didn't experience that at all in my last trip. However I was drinking beer throughout that trip last week, which could certainly explain it. That said, it's also a gloomy day and I have an impending divorce and a sick cat and water drainage issues and a leaky roof and my windows all need replacing before the winter... so there is reason to feel anxious. I didn't earlier today but that stuff is always in my mind even when I'm not actively thinking about it. In any case it's not a big deal, and while I'm playing it's gone. The anxiety feels similar to social anxiety when I'm tripping, except no one is here with me.

In terms of sensory effects, there is nothing visually, except that my eyes feel like they're hallucinating. By that I mean, my eyes physically feel the same as they do when I'm having visuals. That's the only way to describe it. Maybe that's just pupil dilation, but my pupils are not very dilated. I'm having difficulty focusing on things that are very close. Physically my body feels pleasant but less so than it would on, say, 2C-B or 2C-C, which produce more of a warm blanket of a pleasurable buzz. There is no bodyload, it feels pretty transparent.

Mentally, I feel pretty focused and thoughtful. I keep feeling like I am going to have a hard time doing things when they come up but in fact everything feels easy. I was learning how to program my new keyboard and was able to read the instruction manual, follow it to different areas and combine different things I just learned together effectively. The feeling that I shouldn't be able to do things easily is something I noticed in the last trip too and it's really strange. Usually I either am impaired and I feel like I'm impaired, or I'm not impaired and I am fully aware I am not impaired. Or, I am impaired and I am not aware I am impaired. I can't think of any other times I have felt like I was impaired and then not been.

7:45pm (T+3:00) - More great music. I don't really think I want to do anything else tonight really. Except take another hit of weed. The only reason I stopped to write this is because I just peed, and it smelled like coffee. Not like your pee smells after you drink coffee, but like actual brewed, delicious coffee. I'm unable to determine if this is because I'm tripping or because it actually smells like coffee.

8:45pm (T+4:00) - Got caught up in Bluelight, talking to people. I realized I am very hungry so I'm going to make myself some food. I definitely still feel it and feel a little trippy, but it's dropped off a good bit in the past hour.

9:30pm (T+4:45) - The food was delicious and now I am very full. No appetite suppression at all so I think that was the 2-FMA last time that made me feel like not eating much.

Observations from the next day

I ended up watching TV with my girlfriend until about 12:30. At that point we went to bed. I was definitely not tripping anymore but I wasn't tired either. I laid there for a while and couldn't turn my mind off, so eventually I took 1.5mg of etizolam, which worked to fall asleep. The next morning I felt a bit groggy but in good spirits with no aftereffects from the 2C-D. I have been having trouble sleeping periodically in general lately. I think it's because I recently came off of phenibut (I was dependent), and it still messes with my anxiety and insomnia sometimes. Also I take it or gabapentin from time to time for performance-related purposes, or special occasions. I took some phenibut on my birthday, 5 days before this experience, so I think the insomnia is because of the residual crash/withdrawal off of that.




Final Observations and Conclusions

I can't believe I've waited all this time to obtain and try 2C-D! My impression of it from all these years until more recently, from reading what others had to say, was that it was "psychedelic tofu". I think people generally thought of it as impotent and bland, pleasant but nothing special, nothing that makes it stand out, probably not worth exploring. Now having finally tried it (thanks in part to several friends of mine saying it's their favorite 2C-X), I can see that this impression is incorrect. 2C-D is rather more subtle in some ways than many other psychedelics. However it is first-rate in its mental effects, especially as the dose is raised. The effect it has on my thoughts is intense and also unique, producing a strong and nimble introspective state as well as twisty psychedelic thought processes.

It reminds me strongly of 2C-E in a number of ways, much moreso than any other of the 2C-Xs, except that where 2C-E is a difficult trip, hard on the body and intensely distorting to the senses, 2C-D is nearly transparent on the body and produces few sensory distortions for me, at least up to 50mg. It does seem like at a higher dose, visuals would begin to emerge. I also never really explored the closed-eye visual realm, though particularly in my 50mg trial, when I would get carried away by the drug into my thoughts, I had a lot of mind's eye abstract visualizations that I can't quite remember, but I know that at those times I was disconnected visually from my surroundings, and I was experiencing something else with my senses. It almost seemed like the synesthesia of 2C-E, where the senses blend into one sort of combined sense, except that with 2C-E, this effect can be inescapable, whereas with 2C-D, I only experienced it when my mind would wander, and when I would be brought back to the present, I was easily able to use all of my senses in an undistorted way.

Mentally, the effect seems very malleable, very at home and natural. I was able to hop in and out of pretty strong psychedelic currents with ease, although when I thought about it it seemed that I wasn't going to be able to. It was like I was experiencing delusions of intoxication, as opposed to delusions of sobriety. This is an effect I have never had with anything else that I can remember. The effect it had on playing music (and I would imagine, by extension, also in listening to and enjoying music) was among the best of any drug I've taken. I spent a good amount of time in both trips playing music and in both trips I was pretty amazed and exceedingly pleased with the results. I learned a lot and my mind was very engaged and experimental.

Well, that about does it for this report. I look forward to more experiments with 2C-D and have definitely found a great new ally. I think the 50mg level is really quite perfect. In the future I might use the ~25mg level for music enhancement at some band practices where we are trying to generate new ideas or something. 50mg would probably be too high for that. 50mg was much stronger than 27mg, and more of the full nature of the drug came out, so I definitely preferred that dosage and found it the most worthwhile and enjoyable/memorable out of the two. I'd like to try it at 75mg as well, and probably also at 100mg, depending on how 75mg goes.

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flabberghost

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...glad you didn’t drink your “coffee”.

Thanks for the tale!

I’ll stick to Acid, though...

The nearly 80 years of clinically identifiable net-effect ( such as it is ) has a reassuring quality about it.

Kinda’ like the thousands of years of mushrooms.

( No, I don’t want another conversation with the talking lizard, thanks just the same. )
 
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Pfafffed

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Wow, that's fascinating! Your experiences are in some ways like mine, but strikingly different in character in others.

I have heard several people compare 2C-D's headspace to that of 2C-E's, but they couldn't be more different for me. 2C-E really warps and distorts my thought processes like nothing else, while 2C-D doesn't get me much of anywhere noteworthy at all.

As for visuals, that's interesting, too. While the visuals I get from 2C-D are all over the place and just generally a bit of a mess, they're also totally undeniable. I actually get way less in the way of visuals from 2C-E, at least in in the low-common dose range.

Some of this may have to do with ROA, although I doubt it. I'd say 80% of 2C-D experiences have been via rectal dosing. Maybe peak plasma levels have an influence on the overall effect for me. I just like how easy it is to titrate up if the experience is unexpectedly light or disappointing, as I've experienced a lot of dose-response variability.

Several of my first experiences with 2C-D were really positive, then were followed by several lukewarm experiences, then followed again by glowing ones. If I hadn't had those great experiences first off instead of later mediocre I've, I guarantee that I would've dismissed it as tofu myself, never revisiting it.
 

Xorkoth

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That's really interesting. I find 2C-E very visual, with large-scale shifting (ie, the forest I'm in appears to be breathing and swaying around me as a whole), small-scale morphing, and also at higher dosages, fractal patterns and other intense stuff. 2C-E also hugely alters my perception of sound. On the other hand, 2C-D, up to 50mg at least, had no visuals. I have trouble describing, even to myself, how the state of mind is like 2C-E, but it is, and it also very much isn't. I think the way it reminds me of 2C-E is that the mind is very active and introspective, and I get lost in my thoughts. 2C-E is MUCH more warping/bending, and produces the "childlike wonder" effect much more profoundly (where normal things seem completely extraordinary and puzzling). There are probably more ways 2C-D and 2C-E are different for me than there are that they are the same, but on both of my experiences I found 2C-D to be closer to 2C-E than it is to 2C-B or 2C-C or any of the 2C-T-Xs.
 

JackARoe

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Another nice report ShadowM. I did 2C-D once in 2010. 52 mgs. It was different that 2C-B and 2C-C in a way I can not explain. But I was tripping in a unique way.

I can relate to the girlfriend walking in and not knowing you are tripping. I use to get away with that. Nowadays I have to make sure I am alone or jamming with friends but even they don't partake as much.

I am liking reading reports lately and I have not gotten one trip in this year. But it may be cactus in a week. I have to resort to nature. I don't have the balls to order stuff online. lol And everything I tried was from pre 2004
 

Xorkoth

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Nice, I love cactus, I got myself a big stash of powdered san pedro recently. :)

A lot of the time I tell my girlfriend I'm tripping, we have also tripped together a few times. I just didn't expect her to come over and she came over after work instead of going home as a surprise for me so I felt awkward about it at first. It's not something I try to hide from her, it's just I don't always tell her whenever I'm tripping especially if she's not around. I sometimes like taking a psychedelic and hanging out with people and never telling them I'm tripping, just because sometimes people regard you somewhat differently when they know you're tripping. And it can be interesting to be "incognito".
 

flabberghost

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Nice, I love cactus, I got myself a big stash of powdered san pedro recently. :)

A lot of the time I tell my girlfriend I'm tripping, we have also tripped together a few times. I just didn't expect her to come over and she came over after work instead of going home as a surprise for me so I felt awkward about it at first. It's not something I try to hide from her, it's just I don't always tell her whenever I'm tripping especially if she's not around. I sometimes like taking a psychedelic and hanging out with people and never telling them I'm tripping, just because sometimes people regard you somewhat differently when they know you're tripping. And it can be interesting to be "incognito".
Yeah, Boy Howdy...

I can sure relate to the “incognito” angle.

A lot of people get edgy ( or I see them as that way ) if I let on that I’m in that state.

Wish I knew a girlfriend that vibed-in well with me dosing.

I had one flip-the-fuck-OUT on me when I took a vile from my pocket, and put three drops on my sushi.

“What’s that?” she asked...

“Neurotransmitter Potentiator” is all I said...

Boom... it unraveled from there.

We were out, and she left the restaurant in a blurr.

Vibes got thick.

She came back...

I had to drive her home at around midnight, downtown Seattle...

( cajole-cajole-cajole! AND, I’m a good driver on the stuff, as she tries to contain her rage... )

“The light’s YELLOW!” she blurts out...

“Looks BLUE TO ME!” was the immediate retort, as we slipped-on through the intersection.

Jesus, was she PISSED.

I got her home, safely, only to bellow out singing “In The White Room, with black curtains...” while doing Pete Townsend windmills, straddled in the middle of her street, as the echoes filled her quiet neighborhood.

The door slammed.

Single suits me fine.

I trip ALONE, always... and don’t tell anyone anymore. It gets complicated.

It’s inneresting to see who it affects, and how.

Some people just “know”.

Others are better off NOT knowing, and it’s easier on my head too.

Cheers,
-b.
 

Xorkoth

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Hehe =D

I used to be in a relationship where I hid psychedelic use from her. We got married eventually. That was a bad idea. My girlfriend now is really cool, she hardly ever even smokes weed anymore but she doesn't care what I do and we do drugs from time to time.
 

Kaleida

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Awesome report(s), thanks much for sharing, Shadowmeister! :)

I have to say, in addition to just sounding really nice in general, the way you describe the 2C-D honestly, though probably I shouldn't be surprised by this, reminds me quite a lot of 4C-D... not exactly of course but much closer than to most things. The relative lack of visuals but that sort of zoning out dissociative effect as well as feeling more intoxicated than you are and having a headspace that feels similar to 2C-E despite being much lighter, that's all very accurate for it for me. I have to say, I can't remember the exact scientific source or finding right now, but I know in the past I've also had reason to think that the 4C-x's probably in general have about half the efficacy of their corresponding DOx's at the 5-HT2A receptor, which is significant because the DOx's also have about double that of the 2C-x's, which would theoretically put the 2Cs and 4Cs on the same level.... I need to look into that again.

In any case, you've really made me want this one even more than I already did. Thanks again for writing this and I'll definitely be looking forward to what you have to say about higher dosages as well. ☺

Some of this may have to do with ROA, although I doubt it. I'd say 80% of 2C-D experiences have been via rectal dosing.
Hey Pfafffed, I just wanted to point out in case you aren't aware, it's quite possible if not likely that the overall psychedelic effect of 2,4,5-patterned phenethylamine psychedelics is actually not just from the molecule itself, but also from the additional contribution of two active metabolites, which are the molecule with the 2-methoxy and 5-methoxy changed to a 2-hydroxy or a 5-hydroxy, respectively. Here's a study about it from 2003. With this in mind, I think it would not be out of the question to suggest that changing the route of administration of these particular phenethylamines could alter their overall effects dramatically. That was also my experience with oral vs snorted 2C-I, as well.
 

Xorkoth

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2C-D does have a lot of similarities to 4C-D, but is quite a bit more overtly psychedelic, I think. But yeah there is definitely strong similarity. Actually now I really want someone to make 4C-E, if the same sort of pattern holds true (ie, lighter but still similar in nature), that could be one very interesting chemical. :)

As far as DOXs having twice the efficacy of 2C-Xs, I'd say it varies by chemical but most of them are much stronger than that. BOD at 1.4mg is strong, or DOC at 2mg, but 2C-B at 2.4mg or 2C-C at 4mg is likely not even threshold, or barely threshold. I'd say those are 10-20x the potency of their corresponding 2C-X. On the other hand, DOPr might be only about double the potency of 2C-P, and DOET for 2C-E (maybe). Actually for me, DOM isn't very strong at 10mg, though some people report strong experiences at 5mg.

I wonder if 2C-F would be active at any dose? Since it turns out DOF is.
 

Kaleida

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Thanks for confirming and expanding upon that, that's very interesting. :) Yeah, I need to get my hands on some 2C-D for sure, it sounds like something I'd probably love.... I'm kind of quickly falling in love with the phenethylamines in general if I'm being honest. ❤ I absolutely agree and would love to try 4C-E myself.... All of them really, I see no problems with exploring that group so far myself and have only good things to say about what little I've done personally. I think I'd especially really love to see them exploring some of the other supposedly especially hard-hitting substitutions too like 4C-P and 4C-T-7 just to see if they can bring the 4C-x activity up as much to the level of other more blatantly psychedelic molecules as they can too, not that something like 4C-C or 4C-I couldn't turn out to be that super special structure too.

First of all, did you type BOD meaning DOB? I was just thinking about that relationship again earlier, haha. Anyway, I understand why you thought what you thought, but efficacy actually isn't a measure of potency, but of receptor activation, usually described as relative to the endogenous ligand. It's the quality that determines whether the ligand is a full or partial agonist and while it is technically one of the many factors that goes into that drug's potency, you can't really compare two drugs of the same type by efficacy and deduce anything about their potency from that alone. For example, based on the most recent scientific data I've seen, mescaline actually has the highest efficacy at the 5-HT2A receptor compared to DMT, LSD, and psilocin which are the second, third, and fourth highest in that group by comparison, while in this same order these drugs are fourth, third, first, and second highest compared to one another in terms of potency.

The DOx chemicals are usually about double the efficacy of the corresponding 2C-x chemicals from the studies I've seen, though it varies and sometimes they all fall short of double, but they invariably as far as I can recall are at least significantly higher efficacy, which is probably why the amphetamines have lower, even if mostly still not dangerously low safety profiles compared to the phenethylamines, things like increased vasoconstriction potential, as well as why they tend to be more broadly "intense" in a lot of ways on average due to more extreme activation of the psychedelic pathways. Here's a study with some data for reference. They found that at rat 5-HT2A receptors, 2C-B, 2C-I, 2C-TFM, and 2C-T-2 had 40%, 30.3%, 25.7%, and 43.5% efficacy respectively, whereas DOB, DOI, DOTFM, and Aleph-2 had 70.2%, 49.2%, 50.1%, and 57% efficacy. At human receptors, the same phenethylamines had 64.8%, 59.4%, 41.7%, and 78.7% efficacy whereas the amphetamines had 87.2%, 77.1%, 77.6%, and 84.2% efficacy, respectively. The gap seems wider in rats than humans seemingly in part at least because they're all much more efficacious in general at human than rat 5-HT2A receptors, but as you can see the amphetamines are still universally more efficacious. DOB specifically is nearly so much so as to be considerable as essentially a full agonist, which I find pretty intriguing to consider following this most recent trip....

I would bet 2C-F could show some activity at some dosage, though maybe higher than most would be willing to experiment with. The above-related statement leads me to suspect that 2C-F is most likely less efficacious at the 5-HT2A receptor than DOF, which may not be a very good sign for it. I could see it being something like the comparison between 2C-N and DON, which I often suspect to fall prey to a similar functional relationship. But I'd still try it if it came my way nonetheless. :)
 

Xorkoth

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I did mean to type DOB, yes. :) Although BOD is on the short list. ;) I'm really curious about the differences that removing the methyl from the alpha and putting a methoxy on the beta instead will produce.

I've always wanted to try both 2C-N and DON. Morninggloryseed (RIP bud <3) had a +4 experience on 2C-N at like 200mg, which seems rather singular as most people seem to find it lackluster. However, DON was circulated in Russia for a while back in the day, supposedly it's quite recreational.
 

Kaleida

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Same here for sure on the BOD. :) I was uncertain when first reading about it, but after the phenethylamine experiences I've had lately, I feel I can understand what I've read of it a lot better now and am actually quite excited for it.... Frankly I doubt it's at least any less active than 4C-D and decently likely more so while still probably also being kind of similar at the core, so I see no reason to assume I couldn't end up loving it all the same as that one too.

That has now become the consistently saddest part of my life when it comes to thinking about novel psychedelics. :( Been thinking about it a lot because of the nutmeg stuff too, specifically the relation to MMDA and the only good trip report ever written on it. (That may not necessarily be true but I'd say it for him nonetheless.) I actually got to see his stash once in person including that 2C-N.... It truly was a very beautiful and bright shade of orange like he said. His report on it will always stand out as a legend even if no one else ever gets that far, which as you point out doesn't seem unlikely. I would also love to try DON though.... I've heard nothing but great things about it honestly. I actually even wanted to try 25N-NBOMe still even after we learned how awful the NBOMes in general were because it still sounded so stand-outish and not that bad to me based on what was being said, but unfortunately probably-everybody-knows-where came crashing down before I could order some, which in the end is probably for the best (not being able to try that substance, that is), but still.... I'll still be dearly wishing for some kind of nitro-phenethylamine experience forever until I finally get it.

Sigh.... What else can be said? At least no one here will ever forget. ☮
 

Xorkoth

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Yeah It was a big blow to me. We never got to meet in person but did have a little phone time. He confided in me a lot and vice versa. We got close when he mentored me through the whole ibogaine thing. He had been in a very bad place for a while before he passed.

That's cool you got to see the 2C-N. :) I remember when I first started getting into RCs, and actually finding places to get them, there was some site that had 2C-N, and 2C-G both listed. I didn't get anything from there as I had found another place and made an order for some 2C-I. Never got around to ordering from that site, I can't even remember what it was anymore. In addition to 2C-N and DON, I think even more I want to try 2C-G, or any of the 2C-G series. I forget which one sounds the best from PHKAL, it's not actually 2C-G, it's one of the others, like 2C-G-3 maybe.

Regarding BOD, it sounds from PIHKAL like it has a bit of bodyload but is also quite good-natured and active. Probably a good bit more "acute" in effects than 4C-D if I had to guess. Also probably less comfortable. But then again, I don't get bodyloads much so it might be really easy for me.
 
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