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INFO: Types of changes in your brain from taking MDMA

zorn

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 11, 2001
Messages
5,636
There are 4 changes in your brain after taking MDMA
  • You use up a large amount of the serotonin in your brain, so you have less to use afterwards. Serotonin's made pretty slowly, so it takes a day or two to do this. This is partially the cause of the midweek or day-after depression some people get after taking E.
  • You make serotonin much slower. This is because MDMA destroyes the enzyme TPH (tryptophan hydroxylase) which makes serotonin (from 5-HTP). It can take your body up to two weeks to replace all your TPH.
  • You have fewer serotonin receptors, so you are tolerant to MDMA, and might experience afteraffects. At first MDMA makes your serotonin levels shoot up, and so the cells have a self-correction mechanims that destroys some of the serotonin receptors, which sorta cancels out the effect of the MDMA. This determines when you comedown from E. Unfortunately, it then takes days to monthsfor your body to make enough new receptors to get back to normal.
  • MDMA, especially doing it frequently or a lot at once, actually destroys the endings of nerve cells in your brain. This is what we mean when we talk about neurotoxicity or brain damage from E. It can take up to a couple days for the cells to actually die off (the MDMA just mortally wounds them). The cells remained damaged for at least years, likely permanently. Evidence suggest that the cells do grow back after a few years, but they grow back to the wrong places, so this doesn't really help.
The first three effects are responsible for the short-term changes people feel after taking E -- the crash, midweek or day-after depression, and so on.
The last one is what all the MDMA studies measure. Right now it's pretty clear that short-term memory is significantly damages by really heavy use. Researchers, myself, and many other BLers all think it also can cause anxiety and possibly depression. But no studies have been done on this yet (it's a lot harder to quantify than memory, and much more affected by possible preexisting differences.)
In heavy users, the neurotoxicity makes the first three effects worse -- you have less serotonin cells than normal, so every little bit hurts. Hence long-term users often crash much harder and feel more nasty effects than people just started out, even they roll the same amount.
Hopefully this'll clear things up a little. :)
 
And if you've been rolling for a year and a half, about once a month, but still feel completely normal? No depression, no nasty comedowns, no anxiety, no short term memory loss? If I get a decent night's sleep after a night of rolling, I feel about 90-95% normal the next day. Am I fooling myself into thinking that I'm not doing too terrible of an amount of damage? Is it possible that I'm not completely exhausting my serotonin supply at the end of the night since I don't aim to get myself fucked up, just to feel warm and fuzzy?
I realize that very little research has been done and it's all speculation, but I'd be interested in hearing your reply, zorn. Do you believe that the way you feel the day after is reflective of the damage that's been done? Or am I just lucky with the lack of negative effects and am thinking wishfully?
(lots of questions, I know...)
[ 06 March 2002: Message edited by: NoodleGurl ]
 
It's hard to say -- it's good that you don't notice any long-term problems. But there are two concerns: first, your brain cells die naturally with age, so you could have damage from MDMA that won't become noticeable until later. Plus there might be psychological changes too subtle to notice -- you might be a little less happy in general, and just not have consciously noticed it.
That being said, you're probably fine. Researchers typically consider <50 uses "light" and studies don't find problems in these users. If you don't take multiple pills, spread out your rolls, pre/postload, etc, you might be even less likely to have problems.
It's possible a low dose of serotonin wouldn't exhaust your supply. The reason I think running out of serotonin is the cause of the comedown is the timespan -- MDMA has a halflife of what, 6-8 hours? If you take two pills, your roll isn't 6-8 hours longer than with one pill; sometimes it's shorter.
I don't think the day after is a great indication -- because then you have all the first three effects, not just the damage. But people certainly report post-E depression getting worse and worse with memory... so I dunno.
 
hi noodlegirl
i used to roll at about the same rate as you and was exactly the same (no comedowns, felt fine next day etc.) until after about two years since i started rollin (few months back). Now i get really bad comedowns and it is totally obvious to the people i work with on a sunday i was full of e the night before, which never used to be the case.
I remember when i never got comedowns being told "don't worry, they'll come" and for me at least that has happened. I also don't quite get the happy feeling i used to, what some people call 'losing the magic'.
Sorry for sounding so pessimistic (not on a comedown just now, honest!) but thats the personal experience of myself and all my friends who roll.
 
Am I the only one that has seen a relation between my mdma use and actual improvement of my memory, since I have been using mdma frequently which is the last 18 months I can remember things almost photographically, I have always had a quite good memory but now I can remember even the most pointless little things.
 
Mash me too! I can remember really hard shit but then I forget really easy shit too. It's hard to explain but I can remember things that normally I would have never. Then I can forget my own damn telephone number sometimes...I dunno.
 
I also feel that xtc has definetly changed both my personality & memory for the better. Although I also think I remember the harder things & forget the trivial.....only sometimes,but then only for a few seconds until I do a quick mind map(brainstorm) & then it all comes flowing out.
It has allowed me to hold onto 4 or more thoughts at once whilst hold a convo & looking around.Seems to let me keep a better grasp on my thoughts & keeps them in order for when they are needed.
This is was not the case before taking xtc as I smoked a decent amount of pot.As a pot smoker, xtc seems to have either decreased or totally gotten rid of a lot of my slight memory & motivation problems & anxiety/paranoia...or at least lets me control them alot better than before xtc use.
Is this normal? Because from my first use I turned from stress head into a cool carm & collected person :)
Work better/Study better.....life is now alot more enjoyable & focused.
[ 07 March 2002: Message edited by: Scatteredasfuck ]
 
Agrajag?? that's a kick ass nick! :)
When I was rolling monthly I think, in retrospect, that I had a slight decline in general mental acuity. Not exactly memory, since for me that's too much tied to whether I give a damn about what I am supposed to be remembering. More like, I dunno, speed on the uptake, so to speak? Like I felt slightly "dull". This was even with post-loading. I wasn't using any other drugs, either (not even much alcohol).
I took a four-month break, during which this feeling went away. I didn't notice it again after the roll that ended that break, nor after another six weeks later. I don't know if it's the regularity of it that was doing it, or what (like would four weeks apart be ok if it weren't a pattern of four weeks apart, repeatedly?). There hasn't been time enough yet to see if six weeks between would be a long enough break to be able to repeat, or not.
 
Serotonin is 5-hydroxytryptamine or 5-HT. 5-HTP is 5-hydroxytryptophan, the immediate precursor to serotonin, widely available as a supplement.
 
Originally posted by zorn:
You make serotonin much slower. This is because MDMA destroyes the enzyme TPH (tryptophan hydroxylase) which makes serotonin (from 5-HTP). It can take your body up to two weeks to replace all your TPH.
Is TPH available in supliments?
 
Zorn - you mentioned "taking multiple pills" as relevant to the level of possible damage. I think this statement should be qualified as it seems a bit misleading. Pills vary tremendously in potency, and thus a couple of weak pills (and there are tons around) may well provide less MDMA than one strong pill. A small point, but I thought it should be considered. Users should be mindful of taking too much, but restraining yourself to one strong pill is not going to be any more safe for your brain that taking two weak ones.
Also, I think an unmentioned and important consideration is mixing pill types. If you combine pills that contain different substances, you may well experience problems (as with a combination of MDMA and DXM, which has been proven to cause serotonin syndrome).
Excellent summary otherwise.
 
Masheadatronic--
Sudden increase in long term memory and so called 'nostalgia' type memory is one symptom of short term memory damage. Try right now to remember what color of shirt you wore yesterday.
See what I mean?
J/K...but the first statement is a true one.
 
Same as im wearing today!
But, my memory for details, numbers and dates shocks people and I mean shocks people!
 
everyone is different...
there are a lot of factors affecting a person and determine the amount of damage done.
i beleive different people and even same people on different occasions will react differently and suffer different amount of damage.
im off to ibiza soon, and will test all these series.
 
Originally posted by zorn:
[*]MDMA, especially doing it frequently or a lot at once, actually destroys the endings of nerve cells in your brain. This is what we mean when we talk about neurotoxicity or brain damage from E. It can take up to a couple days for the cells to actually die off (the MDMA just mortally wounds them). The cells remained damaged for at least years, likely permanently. Evidence suggest that the cells do grow back after a few years, but they grow back to the wrong places, so this doesn't really help.[/list]

Ok,Mr. Zorn, I'm confused, the MDMA destroys the endings of the cell, or does it destroy the WHOLE cell?
I have no back up for this, but I have heard many times that braincells don't regenerate the same way that, say, skin cells do.
In other words, lost braincells are lost forever. Could you get me out of my confusion?
 
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