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UK vs US attitudes to moderation and pre/post loading

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BabbleFan

Bluelighter
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Feb 18, 2002
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Here in the UK people seem to hit the pills much harder than in the US (by this I mean that using 4+ pills a night a fortnightly over an extended period is not uncommon) The pill popping masses of Britain seem to care little for the moderation preached in America. The idea of pre/post loading to protect the brain also has little following in the UK.
And yet there seems to be little or no evidence of a major depressive problem in ecstasy users in the UK compared to those in the US. You'd expect this evidence to have emerged by now, seeing as there is at least a 20 year popular ecstasy usage history. (This view is based on anecdotal evidence, if anyone can provide concrete evidence either way I'd be glad to hear from them)
I don't deny that ecstasy causes long term changes in the brain, what is up for debate is what effect pre/post loading has on the health of the brain. And indeed how severe these changes are anyway. Personally I believe that pre/post loading may have benefits for heavy users, but I think that at low usage levels (such as seem to be favoured by those in the US) such precautions are largely unnecessary.
So, taken that UK usage is generally heavier, and pre/post loading is less common, why does there seem to be no evidence of a major rift in post ecstasy depression case between the UK and the US?
I'm sure there's a big hole in my logic, first to point it out wins a silly grin from me :D
Your views please...
 
So, taken that UK usage is generally heavier, and pre/post loading is less common, why does there seem to be no evidence of a major rift in post ecstasy depression case between the UK and the US?
There is no evidence because there has been no study in relating to US/UK.
If there was I would surely place my bets that the moderate users who preload/postload will show less negative effects, such as depression, than the heavy more regular users. But that is just common sense in regards to any drug.
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Slightly off topic but I must admit that I am highly sceptical about the effect of pre/post loading, especially from the point of view of enhancing a roll (Pre load). The body has feedback mechanisms to maintain its equilibrium, so suddenly stuffing precursors into it is, at the least, an optimistic approach. Before they even get involved in synthesis these chemicals have to survive the journey through the digestive system, into the blood stream and then across the blood brain barrier.
With regard to moderation I think the Brits are the same with everything - they don't moderate! Greg Proops once stated, "The English always drink (alcohol) as if someone's about to take it away from them." It's the same with the pills etc
 
Originally posted by BabbleFan:
Here in the UK people seem to hit the pills much harder than in the US (by this I mean that using 4+ pills a night a fortnightly over an extended period is not uncommon)

I think strength of pills likely varies vastly between countries. I live in Australia but have a handful of friends who have moved to the UK. They all talk about incredibly cheap pills and doing half a dozen pills a night. Around here our pills are comparitively expensive (approx $40-$50. about 15 pound i figure) yet taking more than one for anything other than a HUGE night (and following day) is pretty much just not done. You would need a death wish to take 3 or 4 in one night. For the occasional user half a pill is often more than adequate to pill your ass off.
What im trying to say is that your pills probably aren't the same as in the US. Anecdotally most pills are produced domestically so there probably isnt a huge amount of movement of pills between countries.
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Being from Toronto, I used to only do one or two pills, good ones. I also used to pre load aswell and I would roll for like 8 hours. Now I live in London (UK) and I have resorted to doing 5 pills to try, without success mind you, to get the same effect. I find the pills here are full of other chemicals and not nearly as potent as the ones in north america. People here can not afford to pre/post load either so that could be why you don't here about it that often here.
 
i think the biggest part of the pre/post loading is a placebo effect.
it quite obviously must be
 
I'm with impulsive state regarding the placebo effect. Also, there is almost no scientific comparison that could be made individually to see if pre/post loading works. There are just too many variables.
What is quite amusing (especially if you read Dancesafe) is the almost total reassurances people want. Of course we'd all love a top roll guarantee but, once you've tested your pills, why not just neck them and get on with having a good time.
The point about not being able to afford the pre/post load is also a good one. By the time you've bought the 5HTP, Vitamin C, Magnesium, Prozac and god knows what else, you could have bought a whole load more pills.
Still, if it all gives you piece of mind, then I guess it works.
 
Originally posted by impulsive_state:
i think the biggest part of the pre/post loading is a placebo effect.
it quite obviously must be
Pre/postloading has little to do with the quality of a roll, except that if your body is healthier you will have a better time, as with anything. Its just a good habit to get into so that you feel better AFTER the roll.
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looks like your getting eaten alive who ever posted the topic oh well its pretty well expected with no evidence to back it up
but yeah i get your point - ive been to america and eaten pills before and there exactly the same as the ones in England
they just dont have 'mash up' like the brits
along time ago i used to run things with a couple of mates but no way not no more - i stopped taking the little fellas about 6 mnths ago
this is what kind of a stage it got to -
My birthday week i had 32 pills you might say they wouldnt have been that strong (7 of them where those huge triangular mitzi's and you cant say the wern't strong )
My other mate dan - we went to a helta skelta about to years ago and he got through 20 mercedes in the one night, mind you they were the worst pillz eva
Dan yet again - this geeza is a proper loony trust me ive seen hime hake 5 in one go.
but somthin i dont agree with out the first post is how can you say that youve been doing pills for howeverlong and your head feels exactly the same way as when you first started taking them ?
 
Originally posted by snoopsterz:

but somthin i dont agree with out the first post is how can you say that youve been doing pills for howeverlong and your head feels exactly the same way as when you first started taking them ?
I don't believe I said that anywhere. However, in answer to your implicit question, I am mentally still the same person as when I started taking pills. I am just as happy and outgoing, and have no memory problems. Admittedly I probably take less than some Brits, but certainly more than is advised by some in the US.
However, my point still stands. People in the UK are less likely to post/pre load and moderate their usage. Yet purely anecdotally we see no evidence a difference in numbers of ecstasy related mental disorders between the two countries. I acknowledge that this is a weak point due to the lack of proper study, but it seems more likely than the alternative. ie: the British clubbing community are turning themselves into depressed wrecks with no short term memory.
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Pre/postloading has little to do with the quality of a roll, except that if your body is healthier you will have a better time, as with anything. Its just a good habit to get into so that you feel better AFTER the roll. -evsid
your proberbly right BUT:
And yet there seems to be little or no evidence of a major depressive problem in ecstasy users in the UK compared to those in the US. You'd expect this evidence to have emerged by now, seeing as there is at least a 20 year popular ecstasy usage history. -babblefan
so therefore whats the point?
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i dont think the quality of pills are better in the US. 90% of the time our pills from amsterdam, and pills from amsterdam almost always have a high quality. when we test pills we got in sweden they always contain MDA or MDMA.
 
So, taken that UK usage is generally heavier, and pre/post loading is less common, why does there seem to be no evidence of a major rift in post ecstasy depression case between the UK and the US?
What makes you think this is true? As far as I no reliable large-scale epidemiological studies have been done on the UK or US E-using populations... and I'm pretty sure I would have heard of them. Studies like that are expensive and involved to do.
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Originally posted by code-09:
Being from Toronto, I used to only do one or two pills, good ones. I also used to pre load aswell and I would roll for like 8 hours. Now I live in London (UK) and I have resorted to doing 5 pills to try, without success mind you, to get the same effect. I find the pills here are full of other chemicals and not nearly as potent as the ones in north america.
Hate to tell you but if your taking one pill and are rolling for 8 hours your are not taking MDMA. MDMA + Meth maybe which I hear is very common in Canada but also more nurotoxic and not a real pill. Don't get me wrong I love the combo but the real deal should just be MDMA. What you had when you came to this country was your first real MDMA pills probably. It still amazes me to this day how people can be fooled by speedy pills and think that because their speeding they have a good pill ;)
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That isn't true about meth pills in Canada as all my canadian pills were E2 tested and I have experienced similar results to code 09. I'm now in the UK and on the whole pills are weaker, cut poorly etc. This is probably due to the proliferation of pills here and the cheap price.
The idea of pre and post loading is not to have a better roll but deals with harm reduction. I don't think anyone takes Alpha Liopic to roll harder.
I don't want to get into it too much but it seems to me that the Brits just want an excuse for their less than moderate usage. So if it makes you feel better us yanks and our pre and post load, moderate usage, is just a load of poppycock. It doesn't matter if you over do it every weekend because there is no proof that you need to do otherwise. In fact taking a pill is no different than drinking a pint. Thats what you wanted to hear isn't it?
 
if your body is healthier you will have a better time, as with anything. Its just a good habit to get into so that you feel better AFTER the roll.
I agree, I have been pilling for over 4 years now, started out maybe once or twice a year, lateley it has been like a once a month thing. I started getting into the Pre/post loading thing, after reading about it on BL, not necessarily to enhance my roll, but to aid my body in general.
I am an extremely healthy person, mind and body. I excercise religiously, eat right, and do not use any other drugs. I hardly drink alchohol more than one drink per week (red wine), except if I roll, then I drink a couple of light beers. Being a female, there are certain issues I must deal with regarding balance of serotonin anyway, so I have always been inclined to enhance my body with foods and supplements that will assist with my feelings of "well-being"
I have been like this for a very long time, way before I started using X, and I must say it has helped. I can still roll off one pill, no harsh comedown, and look forward to the next time.
My attitude is this, if you are mentally balanced and practice a generally healthy way of living, then pre/post loading should not affect you.
I think many americans get into X at first because of peers, or experience with other drugs, as another way to escape reality, when I use it, it is to enhance reality, and engage in uplifting experiences. This may be why so many experience the negative after affects such as depression, etc.
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That isn't true about meth pills in Canada as all my canadian pills were E2 tested and I have experienced similar results to code 09. I'm now in the UK and on the whole pills are weaker, cut poorly etc. This is probably due to the proliferation of pills here and the cheap price.
Cheno, it still stands that an 8 hours is too long for MDMA by its self, MDA possibly if your sure that your 8 hour rolls have no speed in.
There are plenty of good pills out there in the UK, the fact that you can't find them is probably the problem. I'm sure if I went to Canada I'd get given a load of shit too, atleast I'm not getting ripped off for shit.
Have you tried any of the 'B's latley?
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Now don't quote me on this but maybe the reason people in the US don't take as many pills as people in the UK could have to do with the difference in the cost. I hear a pill in the UK costs about the same as $5 over here. In the US, an average pill costs $15-$20. I would definitely take more pills if they weren't so damn expensive
 
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