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3-Meo-2'oxo-pcpr, 3-ho-2'oxo-pce and 2brdck

Have I already mentioned I want to try all the three compounds in the title?

3-MeO-2'-oxo-PCPr
3-HO-2'-oxo-PCE
2-Bromo-Deschloroketamine

Besides that, I would like to try Deschloroketamine again. And I will order 2'-oxo-PCE again soon... ;)

Further wishlist:
2-Iodo-Deschloroketamine
2'-oxo-PCP
2'-oxo-PCE
2'-oxo-PCPy
2'-oxo-PCPr
3-MeO-2'-oxo-PCP
3-MeO-2'-oxo-PCE (oh no, that is Methoxetamine! ;))
3-MeO-2'-oxo-PCPy
3-HO-2'-oxo-PCP
3-HO-2'-oxo-PCPy
3-HO-2'-oxo-PCPr
 
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3-meo-pcpy

3-ho-pcpy

mxm

3-meo-pcm

Are the ones with a ring (PCP/PCPy analogs) + 2'oxo possible but hard to make or impossible?

I know the ring and 2'oxo want to be in the same space which is problematic. But afaik I never got a full answer if that just makes the synth hard or impossible...
 
white55 said:
mxm

3-meo-pcm
Click to expand...
Yes, please!


Are the ones with a ring (PCP/PCPy analogs) + 2'oxo possible but hard to make or impossible?

I know the ring and 2'oxo want to be in the same space which is problematic. But afaik I never got a full answer if that just makes the synth hard or impossible...
Click to expand...

From a really, really cursory search I was unable to find any information on anyone ever having synthed them. Although PubChem has a CID for 2'-oxo-PCP, somehow. I swore there was a thread about this somewhere on here but I can't find it.

An Iranian group has synthesized 2'-Me-PCP and 2'-MeO-PCP, though. 2'-MeO-PCP was faster onset for anaesthesia in animals than ketamine, and one of the isomers of 2'-Me-PCP had 5x increased affinity over PCP.
 
I talked with a few chemists involved in the rc industry. All of them said that 2'oxo + ring = not viable economically but none said if it was or wasn't possible to make.
 
white55 said:
I talked with a few chemists involved in the rc industry. All of them said that 2'oxo + ring = not viable economically but none said if it was or wasn't possible to make.
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Obviously another guy who doesn't realize that "is" is not equal to "equal". Homework: please explain to the forum why the sentence "not viable economically = 2'oxo + ring" does not make any sense.

Also, please explain to us why there are several 2'-oxo-substitutes ARCs:

Methoxetamine
Methoxmetamine
2'-oxo-PCE
Deschloroketamine
2-Fluoro-Deschloroketamine
2-MeO-Deschloroketamine
N-Ethyl-Norketamine

have i missed one? I don't hope so!
 
I think he's just saying that PCP has an additional ring which makes it different from PCE and PCM, which all of the above ones you listed are based off of. And that synthesizing the 2'-oxo onto PCP is very difficult and not worth it economically, likely due to poor yields or expensive precursors or something.
 
ungelesene_bettlek said:
Obviously another guy who doesn't realize that "is" is not equal to "equal". Homework: please explain to the forum why the sentence "not viable economically = 2'oxo + ring" does not make any sense.


Also, please explain to us why there are several 2'-oxo-substitutes ARCs:


Methoxetamine
Methoxmetamine
2'-oxo-PCE
Deschloroketamine
2-Fluoro-Deschloroketamine
2-MeO-Deschloroketamine
N-Ethyl-Norketamine


have i missed one? I don't hope so!
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Not viable economically = production costs x eur/usd/.. per dose, people willing to pay y eur/usd/... per dose which makes y < x. So anyone making it either has to sell at a loss or doesn't sell enough to cover the production/development/profit. That's one of the things that killed eth and al-lad (and other R6 subbed lysergamides which were never even made in substantial amounts). So if you are rich and don't care about some loss and want the product available you can do it. But if you actually want to make money you want something where y > x.


All of the ones you listed don't have a a ring on the nitrogen but a chain (they are secondary amines), the chain is free to rotate so it's not trying to occupy the same position. Tertiary amines aka ones with a ring aka PCP/PCPy analogs have the ring and 2'oxo oxygen trying to occupy the same space. Which either makes them much harder to produce or makes their existence impossible. You've probably noticed that there is and never was 3-meo-2'oxo-pcp or 3-meo-2'oxo-pcpy and so on.

You missed ketamine, tiletamine, 3-ho-dck (should be here soon), mxpr aka 3-meo-2'oxo-pcpr (should be around soon), 3-ho-2'oxo-pce aka HXE (should also be around soon), 2br-dck (supposed to be here soon and was supposedly around before too), 2i-dck (supposedly around before), tfm-dck (if it was ever made, the large scale synth didn't work out, but it's possible smaller batches were made) and probably more (especially potential ones like o-pcpr). But you got the main ones that actually exist or have existed. And if you look closely all are pce, pcm or pcpr analogs aka no ring.

There are some sources saying that 4'oxo behaves similar to 2'oxo and that wouldn't try to occupy the same position as the ring so maybe 4'oxo-pcp, 3-meo-4'oxo-pcp, ... are what we'll get sooner or later.

@Shadowmeister, yes that's basically the tl;dr version.
 
Shadowmeister said:
I think he's just saying that PCP has an additional ring which makes it different from PCE and PCM, which all of the above ones you listed are based off of. And that synthesizing the 2'-oxo onto PCP is very difficult and not worth it economically, likely due to poor yields or expensive precursors or something.
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Aha, I see! And the same would be also true for addingg a 2'-oxo-funktion to other three-ring structures like PCPy, PCPr and TCP? Because that would reduce my "further wish list" to one compound: 2-Iodo-Deschloroketamine. Nope, also 2-Bromo-Deschloroketamine would be possible then.

white55 said:
You missed ketamine, tiletamine, 3-ho-dck (should be here soon), mxpr aka 3-meo-2'oxo-pcpr (should be around soon), 3-ho-2'oxo-pce aka HXE (should also be around soon), 2br-dck (supposed to be here soon and was supposedly around before too), 2i-dck (supposedly around before), tfm-dck (if it was ever made, the large scale synth didn't work out, but it's possible smaller batches were made) and probably more (especially potential ones like o-pcpr). But you got the main ones that actually exist or have existed.
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No, I didn't list ketamine and tiletamine because they are already on the medical drug market.

And I really hope that 3-HO-Deschloroketamine, 3-MeO-2'-oxo-PCPr and 3-HO-2-'oxo-PCE aka HXE will be on the RC market soon!

2-Iodo-Deschloroketamine and 2-Bromo-Deschloroketamine, I have already mentioned above. 2-TFM-Deschloroketamine, I have forgotten yet.
 
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My vendor said he'd have MXPr and 3-ho-dck sometime this March, no word on HXE and 2br-dck. But supposedly the Chinese labs made all 4 at the same time so if that's true they should all become available at roughly the same time.

tfm-dck is apparently really hard to make so we're unlikely to ever see it available commercially (unless you want to pay a lot for what should be pretty close to ketamine)

2i-dck will probably get made sooner or later, but there's no point in making it now seeing how 2f-dck and 2br-dck are both still legal.

MXM, 3-meo-pcm/3-meo-dck, 3-meo-pcpy, 3-meo-pcpr and many others should also become available eventually but again there's no point in making them now seeing how there's already a bunch of good and legal achs.

Only the 2'oxo tertiary amines are problematic, if they can be made but the synth is too hard, someone will probably figure out a simpler one (remember how before lsz and al-lad rc lysergamides were thought to be something that will never happen?). If they can't exist then there isn't much that can be done.
 
white55 said:
remember how before lsz and al-lad rc lysergamides were thought to be something that will never happen?
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It was basically thought to never happen only before one vendor with lots of experience and a license to handle illegal lysergic acid amines has done it. ;)
 
Yes, and a bit later another did it. So it's clearly doable if not simple. That's why most Chinese labs make random caths and only a few labs make the more interesting substances. But I'm sure that sooner or later more labs will figure out how to make lysergamides. Perhaps the one making them now is too hard to compete with so others make other substances that make them more money. But if that lab were to stop making lysergamides I think that sooner or later another would start. Especially the ones which are apparently cheaper to make and sell well (aka 1p-lsd and ald-52), R6 subs are apparently harder (from what they told me eth-lad was quite problematic and some synths failed for no apparent reason and even the successful ones had quite bad yields and they tried making a certain derivative of eth-lad (2fluoroeth-lad (the fluorine being at the end of the ethyl chain)) that would have been useful for scientific research since it could have been radio labelled but all the synths failed and they stopped trying) to make but you still can't charge a lot more for them so overall they aren't as profitable.


Also afaik (and I hope this isn't going too far towards synth talk) the R1 subs are currently made without going trough lsd like they used to be (and so is MIPLA apparently)... but the R6 subs are made via intermediate products that aren't legal to make without a special license (which is another reason for them not being made any more - the lab working with the vendor that makes them didn't want to any more.
 
and no-one mentioned HMXE, 3-hydroxy-2-oxo-pcm ? sounds like a gem to me.

I'm low on funds but I'll try to get some as soon as I am back from "vacation"...
 
Aeon Psyche said:
and no-one mentioned HMXE, 3-hydroxy-2-oxo-pcm ? sounds like a gem to me.

I'm low on funds but I'll try to get some as soon as I am back from "vacation"...
Click to expand...

Actually it should be 3-HO-2-oxo-PCE. I would love to try it. It's already out in the wild? I hadn't heard.

And someone mentioned it like 2 posts above yours. ;)
 
only place where i saw this never made contact on any enquiry. not by email or skype. no answer. maybe it is out there. don't know..
 
lol this thread gives me a depression. I wanna collect all these figures as if they were pokemon and eat 3-meo-pika-oxo-chu-pce it's head off and just blame it on psychosis from having to little funds and sources : /
 
I like keeping tabs on threads like these, but I'll allow others to play canary in the coal mine first and judge the reviews. I'm just so done going through new chems and being let down. I know it's cliche, but I can't help but use MXE as the reference material by which all other materials are judged. Nothing has come remotely close. There have been so many great dissociative hypes in the last few years but each one always fizzles out (again, just my own opinion) and never leads to any holy grail experience ala MXE. Even MXM, aka marshmallow MXE (which surprisingly seems to be experiencing a bit of a hype resurgence here lately), would be a welcome return. But yeah, hope I don't sound like I'm peeing in everyone's corn flakes. I hope any of the aforementioned chems in this thread turn out to have some kind of magic to them.. but these days my hope tank is running on empty.
 
I agree that MXE is the holy grail, nothing else is as perfect. One of the top drugs there is of any class. So weird that it's totally vanished for so long.
 
Tbh, mxe is overrated imo. You can get it at certain dnms but the prices are way too high. It's good, but not that good. Imo 3-ho-pcp and o-pce are better (obviously this is totally subjective).

I wonder when these new analogs are going to show up they have been promising them for March or February but still no sign of any of them. Imo 3-meo-2'oxo-pcpr will be the best one since 3-meo-pcpr and 3-meo-pce are extremely similar, 3-meo-pcpr is just slightly weaker. 3-ho-2'oxo-pce probably wont be that good since 3-ho-pce isn't either (or at least the first batches weren't, the new ones are apparently better).

3-ho-dck should be interesting too.

2br-dck probably wont be that different vs 2f-dck vs ketamine.

Now they just need to make 3-meo-pcpy, 3-ho-pcpy, o-pcpr, mxm and find another country to synth o-pce in.
 
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