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How many times should you forgive?

C

CloverC

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Hi

Not sure if this is the right home for this post, feel free to move if it's wrong.

My partner is a cocaine addict. He had relapsed 4 times in the 3 years we have been together. After the last time, I never thought it would happen again, he seemed so genuine and agreed to be tested at home whenever I wanted. He was in trouble with work - found collapsed - and they were testing him too. All his family found out, he seemed like he was at rock bottom. But over the past few weeks, his mood changed and he refused to be tested, saying it's about time he was trusted. Then a few nights ago, I caught a smell of it on him and realised he'd relapsed. After hours of angry denial, he admitted it.

I feel physically exhausted with all this effort that I put into forgiveness. I have tried to understand, been to meetings and counselling sessions with him, however every time I forgive him, after a few months he relapses.

I feel like he's made a choice to do what he does, and when he makes that choice he knows he's throwing away everything he's promised me. I feel like a fool for continually giving him a chance for him to relapse without a thought for what it does to me.

I know every situation is different so the question is probably unanswerable, but I just wanted to see what people think about forgiveness and when should you accept that it will be this way forever?
 
They say forgiveness is for you. But it is a 2 way street. I guess i would separate the acts from intention. On one hand, an apology is only as good as the honest desire to change. On the other hand, it's not that his intention is to lie and deceive, it's to get high. We don't run around saying "how can i deceive and lie to my wife and then get high", it's i want to get high, and the rest falls behind that.

I don't know what level he's at. How old you guys are, etc. Years ago, my wife and i did it together. I think the best thing to do is to separate the forgiveness part from the he wants to get high part. That might allow more breathing room to just be straight with it and clear things up. It's difficult because, it's cocaine. If it were weed i could go "oh, ler the dude smoke a little weed!", but this is of course different. If it was heroin I'd say "oh you don't understand, he NEEDS it, physically".

If it's not that bad, maybe talk about ways you can both fill the time better. Even "let's do something else", maybe treat him to something he likes that's rewarding and healthy. Tell him you like it when he's straight, tell him he looks more comfortable, talk about how you'd like to spend money on good things, maybe for your future?

If it's bad......some sort of program might be helpful? There could be a level of addiction or something that might require him to reach out. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe he chats with his doctor or sits in the back for an na meeting. It should be positive and not punishment.

I hope it gets better for you guys.
 
Its addiction.. He isn't doing this because he wants to hurt you or doesn't love you. I know its hard not to take this personal, but that might help.
 
You can always forgive someone and its easier to forgive someone you love and when they are genuinely sorry.

That doesnt mean you have to accept his behaviour though.

At some stage your partner will have a choice to use or not use and every time he chooses to use, is he beginning to just assume you will be angry a while then forgive and get over it or is he thinking he will use and if you find out hes fine with losing you?


Look. Addiction is hard. It takes so much mental energy to not use and maybe he wants to stop and hates himself when he uses.


Maybe it would be best he quit his job while he still has one and not get fired. Concentrate on getting help. You do what you can to support him. Commit 100% to cleaning up. He needs to forgive himself too.

If things keep going as they are and you dont see him keeping his promises then sure forgive him but leave. You need to worry about yourself too.
 
Thanks for the replies and advice.

He says he hates it when he uses, he doesn't even enjoy it, it makes him feels sick....yet he still does it.

He's been to CA, NA, private counselling. Nothing seems to work. I don't think he gels well with the whole "steps" thing but gets something out of speaking to others in the rooms and sharing experiences. Or that's how it seems anyway but it's obviously not enough to keep him clean.

We don't have joint finances with they exception of that he has a car in my name on finance because he can't get it himself. It makes me worry to think he's driving around in a car in my name when he could be high, but he needs it for work and never lets me down with paying for it.

I've sat there time and time again thinking that he doesn't mean it, it's a disease, he's obviously got issues and needs support....but then another part of me thinks that he must know what he's doing, and when I'm thinking life is good, we have trips booked, we have things to look forward too, I'm obviously deluded because if that was the case he wouldn't feel the need to use.

I'll never know what goes through his mind when he makes the choice to use, but I can see how desperate he is after he gets caught and how much hatred he has for himself...or is he just a good actor and tells me what I want to hear so he gets his comfort blanket back?

I'm tired, and I'm scared of what he'll do if I don't forgive him. He doesn't come across as mentally stable and it's horrible to see someone that you share your life with feeling like that. But does he think about what it does to me, how I feel? How I get physically sick with the pain of betrayal?

So many ifs and buts.
 
Neversickanymore - that's exactly what he says to me "please don't take it personal" yet it feels so personal! The feeling of betrayal, the broken promises, the lies, the deceit. It all feels so personal!!

Normally, he gets in a bad way and loses all his money gambling when high and I end up paying our way out of the mess. I've settled drug debts and loans etc for him previously but he's not that far in this time it seems. Maybe he got caught early and it could have easily escalated to that point again.
 
It sounds like your husband hasn't found the right approach to dealing will his drug use issues. It sounds like he has only explored formal addiction treatment (which sadly by and large is still a joke). Has he explored mental health issues? Bupropion is sometimes used with folks to help them manage their stimulant issues (it doesn't work for everyone, but it might be worth trying). Also working with a licenses clinical psychologist (I.e. Not some who is still doing their internship, not a drug and alcohol counselor, not even a specialist in addiction, just some licenses clinical psychologist who has been around for a while, ideally who has worked with other people to help them using cocaine).

Forgiveness isn't about people, not what they do. I'd have a feeling you'd benefit more from working with patience and acceptance as opposed to forgiveness. For one thing, it sounds like you strongly associate this individual with his drug use. I imagine it would be easy to forgive the person without necessarily forgiving what they were doing when it's so strongly associated in your minds eye with an imagine of how you see the person as an individual.

This kind of thing is super tough by all accounts though.
 
AnythingEverything - thank you so much for giving me a view from the other perspective. It's so hard to even get a glimpse of what the other side is thinking!

One of the most confusing things of this whole situation is that when we are good, we are really good. Like, no one else can come near us, he's my only thing and every thing and I cannot imagine being with anyone else.

He can be very jealous and controlling (which I think is a part of the addiction thing - deep down I think he feels as if he's done so much bad that he doesn't deserve someone who is with him 100%). But I am very close to him emotionally and I get why he can be so down on himself, even though he has been given a chance.

It's so hard to live through these emotions - forgiving someone who is torturing you emotionally by relapsing, being on top of the world with love and good feelings, for them to do it all over again and you be back to square one, thinking it was silly of yourself to ever believe you had "cracked it this time".

When angry, I do lash out and tell him that he should be grateful I stuck by him. But I suppose truthfully that's genuinely how I feel - most people, even his family, would have left him in the gutter, but I never want to see him that way because I love him.

He's gone to his parents for a few nights but phones me and messages me every few hours pleading for forgiveness and telling me how sorry he is.

I suppose I've got to decide if this is the life that I want - to experience this betrayal pain on a frequency basis and live my life like this forever or to cut ties altogether and end the relationship.

TPD - he referred to his doctor the last time and was sent for examination on his nasal cavities due to the heavy abuse over many years. His doctor put him on sertraline (100mg) and gave him some sick leave from work however he gets to a point where he thinks he's invincible and doesn't need it any more and comes off it. And it generally ends up spirilling out of control again.

I completely get what you mean about how you see a person - if I close my eyes tightly and think of him, I see the man who I love, who I know loves me, who I want nothing more to share my life with. I think if I did that and saw a drug addict, someone who was hopeless and let me down and I wanted rid of then I would probably not be in this dilemma about making the right choice.

If what everyone says about addiction is true, then I need to rid these thoughts of "he loves cocaine more than me". Because that is what is ruling my mind at the minute, that's the reason why I won't entertain a conversation with him.
 
You could join a support group for friends and family of drug addicts to get support for yourself. I dont know where you live so dont know the names of any.


I am an addict but have not had a serious relationship with someone sober so I honestly dont know what can help you besides somehow getting him to not sneak around and tell you when he uses. Its not condoning it but stopping the sneakiness.
 
If it's hurting you, you shouldn't tolerate it.
That's not the same as not forgiving though, you can forgive him and still tell him you need to take a step away for your own good while he works his problems out. That doesn't mean end the relationship, it just means putting yourself first for awhile.
 
The biggest step in winning the battle against cocaine addiction is when an addict is able to recognize the difference between the fantasy and reality of what active use feels like and is like.

Addiction wields many weapons. One of its most powerful is fantasy. An addict will be fed and buy into fantasies of what using the substance will feel like and be like.

You may consider suggesting to him that he journel at different times what he thinks or believes use will be like.

During a stint of use he will likely journal that he is pretty miserable. Paranoid, edgy, uptight, dirty, gross and spiritless might be things that come to mind. He likely feels guilty that he has slipped into use again and is deceiving the people he loves and doing this to himself again. There will be more, but he might feel some of these.

After a while of not using it will be different.

Then the fantasy will take hold and he will be invited to participate in it. If he journal's right before he relapses the picture will be dramatically different.. it will be a total fantasy. In an addicts mind it will be an amazing experience of great pleasure.

Addiction manipulates thought and memory and we go from avoiding something miserable to trying to resist something amazing.

If he able to see the fantasy for what it is and instead call his addiction on the delusion then he will be much more powerful against relapses. Regular meetings of NA or another fellowship can help battle the fantasy because it implants reality back into an addict on a regular basis.

If he able to see through the fantastical delusion then he is that much more powerful.

He needs to learn how addiction works. Learn to recognize its weapons and live a recovery plan that disarms the addiction.
 
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Awesome post NSA.

My own 0.02...like an earlier poster, I am/was the addicted one in my marriage. The single worst thing about my addiction was the toll it took on my wife. I hated myself for that and hated mysel when I used. I imagine your husband feels similarly.

But the truth is that addiction brings collateral damage, and unfortunately that often comes down on our loved ones. I'm not advocating leaving him per se. But I always hoped that my wife was protecting herself. I think putting some thought into how you can lessen the damage (emotional and otherwise ) his addiction does to you would be worthwhile. That might be checking out something like nar-anon or simply getting together often with friends or family you trust so you've got support outside the marriage.

Best luck!
 
My feeling is that forgiveness and what you need to do for yourself are two completely different things.

In all likelihood, he is sincere and he does mean all of it and unfortunately that has nothing to do with whether he will relapse again.

I totally get that you are trying to understand if he controls his addiction and why, but the important thing is that you don't. So part of life with him is living with the unexpected. If you accept him, you have to accept that.

And of course you want him to stop doing cocaine and gambling (read "change"). Just ask yourself how realistic it is. He collapsed at his job where they were testing him (best salesperson ever???), his family knows and you're separated.

Many of the things left between him and rock bottom (e.g. arrest, OD, a felony record, unemployment, prison, extensive hospitalization, permanent heart damage, "debt collectors", etc.) are quite ugly.

You might take some time alone (without the daily pleading) to figure out what you are willing to deal with, because he definitely believes that you're sticking with him until the bitter end. And you aren't there yet.

Please take care of yourself.
Best, CD

I just read the part about you bailing him out for drugs and gambling. Think on it and I sincerely hope you are okay and stay strong.
 
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Thanks everyone, I really appreciate you taking time to reply.

NSA - what you have said in your post about journaling sounds like a good suggestion.

He describes the drug as not being a social drug, even though most people who I know have taken it previously have done it recreationally. He takes it when he's alone, he calls it "party for one" because he cannot bear to be in anyone else's company due to paranoia.

I work away from time to time, sometimes out of the country, and he's told me that when he's been on a binge, he literally stands frozen to the spot at the window for hours, looking through the blinds because he thinks I've got a plane home early and I'm coming home.

I just can't comprehend why anyone would repeat that behaviour when they know what it's done to them in the past. But that's where your explanation about fantasy resonates. He's expecting something amazing, forgetting that it never turns out that way.

Cduggles - you said something that I have been mulling over the last few days -

So part of life with him is living with the unexpected. If you accept him, you have to accept that.

That's what I need to figure out I guess.

The current situation is that he's at his mum's and I've asked him to leave me alone for a week to allow me space to gather my thoughts. He's gone crazy though, saying that if he doesn't contact me then I'll begin to realise what a piece of shit he is (his words) and that I'll leave him for good. But I need to take this time to figure out what I want from my life, and if I want to spend it with someone who I'll never be able to 100% trust.

TPD - that's for the links, I'll have a good read now.

People are so great on here - thank you all.
 
Hes not a piece of shit. He just has a substance use problem that is trying its best to continue its grip and it takes time and hard work but it can be overcome. Its hard to see the wood for the trees though .


It sounds like he needs to be in patient for a while so professionals step in and give you a break. Also the dealer contacts have to go. Maybe even just moving away. Who knows?

It will be hard but getting your partner back could be worth it.

You will be ok either way. You seem really cool and fun and it would be good to just spend some time on you.
 
The good news is that couples who can get through something like this, a challenge to their relationship this difficult, often have deeper, more meaningful relationship with their SO.
 
I would also tell him that no matter how you feal about him your not bailing him out of drug or gambling debt.

Standing at the window "peaking" is really typical behavior for cocaine addicts in late stage use.

It usually works off one of the addicts worse fears. So one of his worse fears is getting caught by you and having you see him in that miserable state.

Some peoples worst fears are getting busted, killed by criminals, their significant other cheating on them. His seams to be letting you down and you seeing him in that way.
 
My fear was always the shadow monsters... Hated when they finally showed on a bad binge.

neversickanymore said:
I would also tell him that no matter how you feal about him your not bailing him out of drug or gambling debt.

Standing at the window "peaking" is really typical behavior for cocaine addicts in late stage use.

It usually works off one of the addicts worse fears. So one of his worse fears is getting caught by you and having you see him in that miserable state.

Some peoples worst fears are getting busted, killed by criminals, their significant other cheating on them. His seams to be letting you down and you seeing him in that way.
Click to expand...
 
I think you've shown tremendous patience, I would have gotten out of dodge a lot earlier.

I didn't read anything about you having kids... if you want to start a family, could you make it happen with him long term?
 
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