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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
potent dopaminergics prolintane & amfonelic acid
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Nagelfar
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Why wouldn't a dopamine-direct-agonist not be considered a stimulant? Since they're used, can produce emesis when injected, the fact that they don't make you necessarily "restless" I think is just proof of their pure stimulating "smooth" direct-actionLast edited:
I see. Actually the rational behind making the DAT piperazines extremely lipophilic is the expectation that they'll tend to accumulate in fat tissues throughout the body and slowly released in general circulation from there. The steady-state concentration of the drug in the plasma would then be just enough to "stimulate" DAT without high peak plasma concentrations leading to the "rush"; the idea was they'll be less likely to be "abused" giving no "rush" so to speak. Not by providing stim effect similarly to the cocaine they're supposed to replace but by providing it in a controlled fashion. Plus drug fat depot might also lead to long T1/2 making dosing less frequent. It is the same idea behind development of methadone to treat heroin-addiction. But obviously doesn't work or rather it doesn't work with the diaryl piperazines..Simpler, less lipophilic piperazines act differently than GBRs both pharmacodinamically and pharmacokinetically.. like the benzylpiperazines far example, which the compound 3C-PEP is much closer to structurally.. but who knows??Last edited:
Yes, pramipexole and most dopamine direct agonists are potent aphrodisiacs. Prami or ropinirole or piribedil are quite potent sexual arousal inducing. But strangely, some people (Parkinson's patients since it is clinically used to treat them) experience INTENSIVE URGES OF COMPULSIVE GAMBLING (even people who never gamble would feel like heading to Vegas) instead of getting horny. A "good" proportion (data source ???)
It seems different dopamine receptors are responsible for each effect. Recently D4 were shown to be responsible for the prosexual effects of dopaminergics in general including dopamine agonists (non-selective) and reuptake inhibitors/releasers like methamphetamine cocaine..etc. Rats dosed on selective D4 agonists will hump until exhaustion
I am not sure if any of these D4s have reach the clinic (abbott lab was developing one), but yea if you're looking for the horniness-side of stims go for DA agonist D4 (if possible)
PS: another advantage of D4 selective agonists, they do not induce emesis like pramipexole and other non-selective DA agonists: their use as aphrodisiacs is limited because the dose necessary for sexual effect is in range of dose inducing emesis. kind of a balance
I've never heard of any of the DA agonists referred to as stimulants. I found that it often made me drowsy.
asecin
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scuzzy, i took mirapex in hope of enhanced sexual stimulation but all it did is made me drowsy as you mentioned in your last post. maybe i didnt it take it long enough, i just took it for few days and i didnt notice anything else but sleepyness and i did feel kind of comfortable generally not depressed but that wasnt the reason to take it in the first place so i dumped it. perhaps i was expecting quick noticeable results right away and i made a mistake? interesting idea to combine it with "mood enhancer" or PD5 inhibitor, what did you use for this combination, and how did you feel?
asecin
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as someone mentioned d4 agonists likely being nice dopaminergics i found this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxindole wow it has such nice things said and im surprised its still not on the market. most of the references are from the 90s, wtf
i can probably find some of this sold as powders online im very curious to try it but also surprised it never made it as a drug....One of the more memorable combinations was pramipexole, bk-mdma, cannabis, and phenibut. All inhibitions were lost with that combo. The pro-sexual effects of prami kinda sneak up on you, and it seems to affect women more than men, in my experience. I could not keep up with my wife when we both used it. No matter how much or what we did, she would spend hours finishing herself off again and again. Those were interesting months.
It will cause your sex drive to crash when you stop taking it.
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
MDMA does same, still considered a stim. (on flip-side opioids can produce wakefulness and restlessness)
As sero2A mentioned^
3C-PEP seems very close to vanoxerine:
However, 3C-PEP is selective in terms of NET/DAT ratio, it doesn't seem nearly as selective as vanoxerine: DAT Ki of 0.06 versus NET Ki of >20,000 making a NET/DAT of >333,333.3(!!!)
Thing is, vanoxerine is an atypical ligand (doesn't produce euphoria; the technical reasoning is it binds to DAT in an "closed-to-out" conformation and not "open to out", inverse agonism is theory but the former are facts), however that doesn't mean 3C-PEP doesn't produce euphoria either; check out benztropines, they do not and their only difference from cocaine is a di-aryl (albeit, differing orientation @ C3); in this case, the GBR-esque di-aryl is removed in the case of 3C-PEP; might make it interesting. Wonder what it would also take to the get NET/DAT discrimination of vanoxerine, however, hmmm:
i.e. here's a benztropine variant with ββ configuration (but the values are incred. low, compared to the α-oriented, interestingly):
As compared to the re-enforcing prototypical phenyltropane, troparil:
Last edited:re: Dopamine agonists sexual stims : the recommended doses of Pramipexole for PD patients is 4.5 mg or less in a 24 hours period. But because of nausea and vomiting induced by dopamine agonists (D2/D3), dose is spaced (2-3 times/day) but I guess if you're stim tolerant should be able to handle higher doses without pucking
Some people report "very satisfactory sex" after single 0.125 mg dose of Prami ("very unsatisfactory" is medical code-word for "extremely horny") for 8-10 hours especially females ( I'll have to dig references on that! So prepare ahead for 8-10h of
horniness
You can also try some other DA agonists like ropinirole (Requip). Used to treat PD and restless syndrome. Same sexual "side-effect" as Pramipexole. recommended max dose is 24mg or less over 24h period. half-life 5-6hours
nb: because technically direct dopamine agonists (especially selective ones) are not stim, their effect is not like non-selective stims such as coke amph..etc(correct me if I am wrong). So don't expect a stim effect like coke or meth.. Just carefully watch how your sex drive goes to the roof (compulsive masturbation among Parkinson's disease patients is common side-effects of dopamine D2/D3 agonists. (google: parkinson dopamine agonist hypersexuality.. good read
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
Some people report "very satisfactory sex" after single 0.125 mg dose of Prami ("very unsatisfactory" is medical code-word for "extremely horny") for 8-10 hours especially females ( I'll have to dig references on that! So prepare ahead for 8-10h of horniness
Das ist sehr geil. (how gut ist your German, .chem? apparently not too i.e. my name rendering on the random mole. thread. ;-P - in German the word for "cool", as in 'awesome' slang-term, instead of meaning, in English as 'cool' means a 'lower temperature', "Geil" means "horny".... organic chemistry is very horny, don't you agree, Dot? Jawohl? ;-P)
asecin
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re: Dopamine agonists sexual stims : the recommended doses of Pramipexole for PD patients is 4.5 mg or less in a 24 hours period. But because of nausea and vomiting induced by dopamine agonists (D2/D3), dose is spaced (2-3 times/day) but I guess if you're stim tolerant should be able to handle higher doses without pucking
Some people report "very satisfactory sex" after single 0.125 mg dose of Prami ("very unsatisfactory" is medical code-word for "extremely horny") for 8-10 hours especially females ( I'll have to dig references on that! So prepare ahead for 8-10h ofhorniness
You can also try some other DA agonists like ropinirole (Requip). Used to treat PD and restless syndrome. Same sexual "side-effect" as Pramipexole. recommended max dose is 24mg or less over 24h period. half-life 5-6hours
nb: because technically direct dopamine agonists (especially selective ones) are not stim, their effect is not like non-selective stims such as coke amph..etc(correct me if I am wrong). So don't expect a stim effect like coke or meth.. Just carefully watch how your sex drive goes to the roof (compulsive masturbation among Parkinson's disease patients is common side-effects of dopamine D2/D3 agonists. (google: parkinson dopamine agonist hypersexuality.. good read
why oh why reading about these D2 agonists has been turning me on for such, the greatest time! and yet ive tried it, i tried to work with one, made me dizzy and confused as much as D2 antagonist. i just dont fucking get it and it pisses me off!!! how does one even get those "novelty seeking" behaviors on those d2 agonists, i want that sex drive and gambling passion, where the fuck is it? its a fucking MYTH! thats what this is. i still need a lot more reliable noncomercial reports on them to ignite that fire i had back in the days for them, so far so not good...
I have several theories as to why this is.
I think that if you're expecting to engage in novelty-seeking behavior, it will not happen because you consciously and unconsciously prepare for the effect and your ego does everything in its power to keep the drug from changing who you are. It seems like most of the accounts of people becoming sex addicts or gambling addicts, were of people who took the drug for some other purpose without expecting it to make them more impulsive. As such, the drives feel like they are coming from your own will, and not that of a chemical ligand. In this scenario, we are more likely to follow them, thinking that we are "going with our gut."
I believe this to be my problem at least, and you sound a little like me. In I find that most drugs do nothing for me anymore - even chemicals I used to find mind-blowing or profound just riddle me with annoying side effects. No period of abstinence changes this - I think that I just understand them too well, and whatever high is sabotaged before it can even develop.
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
Novely is novelty. Most people OD in "new" & "unfamiliar" environs and situations. Make sure your circumstance taking a drug relating to incentive salience has an actual degree of true novelty, otherwise its quickly dampened.
asecin
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scuzzy you sound about right. also same as well i dont feel anything anymore from any of the past crap that i did and enjoyed so much, but i think nagelfar might be up to something here by completely changing the situations, environment to having new unfamiliar sense perhaps it might work a bit but overall im kind of thinking the body has adapted to such a way it views everything done in the past as toxins and that is its vaccine
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
And by "most people OD" I should word that more accurately by saying that many over-doses are in fact related to when people use in environments they're not used to. Using alone in your room; despite the fact that it's "safer" to not be alone, per capita it seems that a lot of overdoses are among people found in places they don't normally use. It's strange; reminds me of autism; some "low functioning" autistics have to re-learn everything according to circumstance (i.e. they may know how to 'tie their shoes @ home', but they have to learn to "tie their shoes @ school" like its an entirely different action) perhaps the unconscious of the general neurotypical individual functions in much the same way when it comes to subconscious response curves to drugs. e.g. a drug isn't construed by the body the same if its in an entirely unusual place/time/situation from where you've been using usually.
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
New environment may not be enough to elicit "novelty", but whole new situation; perhaps not having to prep it yourself in the morning while feeling groggy (trust me, was quite the rush to have someone wake me by handing me a loaded rig one time. ;-p), going through the same "routine" is likely to dampen true 'novelty' to any degree.