Kratom The Kratom Megathread

[when I dream]

I did actually consider benzos as an aid for tapering. Believe it or not, benzos are just about the only class of addictive drugs that I never got addicted to and never really particularly enjoyed all that much. I never seemed to get that euphoria people talk about. I've actually been prescribed alprazolam for sleep issues a few times and never abused it.

Obviously I can't say for sure that I wouldn't develop some new love of benzos if I were to use them to help me through withdrawal but I do feel like I could stop using them once the acute symptoms end. Though, I'm still not even sure I want to quit using kratom yet, it really has helped me a lot. But either way thank you for your response man, definitely good to know that benzos may be able to help.

 

[furryfreek]

Actually, if I had to choose one bit of advice for someone in a similar position to me around the time I quit kratom, it would be "less is more". I found kratom very beneficial (and still do now that I'm using it again after a six month break, though only two or three 4g doses per week) it has helped me, to an extent, with both depression and social anxiety, for which I rate it far more highly than its recreational value. The thing is, once my tolerance reached a certain point, the negatives caught up with the positives and its therapeutic index narrowed to a hairs width. From that point on, my habit was nothing but a burden with no reason to continue except to delay the withdrawal.

If you can manage to stick with the amount you're currently taking without loosing its benefits then fair enough, but otherwise it really is worth getting the W/D over and done with, taking a break and then sticking to moderate and, above all else, sustainable level of usage. Not that I mean to rush you or anything; my choice of timing was probably more significant than the use of benzos. I think it is possible to receive sustained benefits from kratom, but only if physical dependence is avoided. That may be easier said than done, but I think it should work out so long as you're properly determined to get the very most out of kratom by making it work for you rather than end up working for it. Maybe I'm a bit of a special case, but having actually experienced the negatives of a fairly heavy kratom habit and compared that with the benefits of moderate use, I actually feel like I'm now in a far better position to keep my use under control as I know just how ridiculous it would be to become a slave to the stuff again.

 

[CfZrx]

Hi, my name is CfZ and I am a slave to Kratom. I spend 100 plus dollars monthly and I'm sick of it. My habit is 6 teaspoons daily. Today I am starting my taper at 5.5 teaspoons with a goal of 3 teaspoons by tapers end. Anyone else in the same boat? Please join me as we share our taper tales peace

 

[fallzdown]

Hi, my name is CfZ and I am a slave to Kratom. I spend 100 plus dollars monthly and I'm sick of it. My habit is 6 teaspoons daily. Today I am starting my taper at 5.5 teaspoons with a goal of 3 teaspoons by tapers end. Anyone else in the same boat? Please join me as we share our taper tales peace

I've tried to quit many times before with no success. After a few months on the plant (plain leaf at about 16 grams a day) I would taper down until I'd get to around 6 grams a day. 3 grams twice daily. I could maintain that for a week or so but I'd get the shits something fierce and mad lethargy. I would deal with it though then jump off. Once I jump, it's HELL. Shivering, sweats, RLS, you name it. That's AFTER tapering down.

Right now I'm trying to quit an oxy and Kratom addiction using Loperamide and so far the results have been fantastic, but it can be dangerous. The best advice I could give you:
1- ABSOLUTELY MUST BUY A SCALE. Using a teaspoon isn't going to cut it my friend. You need to know the exact dose you're getting each and every time.
2- Find the lowest dose that you're comfortable with and stick with it for a week. NO MORE on any given day. Just that exact dose. Since you're using a teaspoon to measure, dump out whatever your normal "teaspoon dose" is onto the scale so you have a sense of how many grams you're taking. My guess is it's in the neighborhood of 10 grams but I could be wrong.
3- After a week on that same dose everyday and NO MORE than that dose, ever, cut it by 25% and see how that works. Should be fine, but you may need to cut it by less. The key is to go nice and slow. However, this is hard for those of us with poor self control. If you can manage, this is your best bet. Each week dose down again and stay at that level for 5-7 days before your next taper.
4- Once you get low enough you may notice diarrhea and lethargy. Imodium and caffeine will help, but if you have anxiety due to withdrawals, the caffeine will make it worse. Just keep that in mind.
5- The last few (2-4 grams a day) is the hardest. You may be tempted to jump but I find that I still have insomnia. Last time I tried this I was taking only 2 grams at night and that worked great but I still couldn't jump from there. If that happens, go to 1 gram a night.

I can not stress enough the importance of having a scale. Buy one immediately if you want to succeed.
I do not have the self control to taper effectively and I always get jammed up when jumping from 2 grams a day to 0. This time I'm trying the Loperamide method and am pleased with the results, but it's only the second day. Let me know if you have any other questions, I've been at this for 2 years.

 

[cojonu]

Nice to know I m not the only one, the restlessness can be anywhere, last time it happened Italy upper body
Z z

 

[pinpoint]

Today is two weeks kratom (and opioid) free after two years of daily use. Took phenibut for the first 5 days of withdrawal after tapering kratom from an ounce a day to 2 grams. I'm back to being 90% 'me' now.

So long kratom. Hello Summer!

 

[furryfreek]

Everyone's different, but tapering just didn't work out for me. It just seemed to drag out the pain for ages and the cravings were a real pain. I had much better luck with just C/Ting and getting the worst of it over and done with within a week or so.

 

[pbuilder]

I've tried to quit many times before with no success. After a few months on the plant (plain leaf at about 16 grams a day) I would taper down until I'd get to around 6 grams a day. 3 grams twice daily. I could maintain that for a week or so but I'd get the shits something fierce and mad lethargy. I would deal with it though then jump off. Once I jump, it's HELL. Shivering, sweats, RLS, you name it. That's AFTER tapering down.

Right now I'm trying to quit an oxy and Kratom addiction using Loperamide and so far the results have been fantastic, but it can be dangerous. The best advice I could give you:
1- ABSOLUTELY MUST BUY A SCALE. Using a teaspoon isn't going to cut it my friend. You need to know the exact dose you're getting each and every time.
2- Find the lowest dose that you're comfortable with and stick with it for a week. NO MORE on any given day. Just that exact dose. Since you're using a teaspoon to measure, dump out whatever your normal "teaspoon dose" is onto the scale so you have a sense of how many grams you're taking. My guess is it's in the neighborhood of 10 grams but I could be wrong.
3- After a week on that same dose everyday and NO MORE than that dose, ever, cut it by 25% and see how that works. Should be fine, but you may need to cut it by less. The key is to go nice and slow. However, this is hard for those of us with poor self control. If you can manage, this is your best bet. Each week dose down again and stay at that level for 5-7 days before your next taper.
4- Once you get low enough you may notice diarrhea and lethargy. Imodium and caffeine will help, but if you have anxiety due to withdrawals, the caffeine will make it worse. Just keep that in mind.
5- The last few (2-4 grams a day) is the hardest. You may be tempted to jump but I find that I still have insomnia. Last time I tried this I was taking only 2 grams at night and that worked great but I still couldn't jump from there. If that happens, go to 1 gram a night.

I can not stress enough the importance of having a scale. Buy one immediately if you want to succeed.
I do not have the self control to taper effectively and I always get jammed up when jumping from 2 grams a day to 0. This time I'm trying the Loperamide method and am pleased with the results, but it's only the second day. Let me know if you have any other questions, I've been at this for 2 years.

Loperamide in high doses is very cardiotoxic so don't trade habits and remember, loperamide is just another opiate, if you use it to cover withdrawals you are only postponing them. Do some research on high dose loperamide and cardiac arythmia's and decide if it's worth the risk to come off kratom. If you do use it, please keep it short term.

 

[CfZrx]

Great to hear your stories! I'll buy a scale. Today I had a half teaspoon in the early morn to go back to sleep, now I'll take 1 teaspoon. I think that 1 tsp equals about 3 grams because that is the weight of a tsp of flour. But that is just a guess, you are right abou the scale. Today my goal is 5.5 tsp again (Day2 Kratom Taper).

 

[fallzdown]

Loperamide in high doses is very cardiotoxic so don't trade habits and remember, loperamide is just another opiate, if you use it to cover withdrawals you are only postponing them. Do some research on high dose loperamide and cardiac arythmia's and decide if it's worth the risk to come off kratom. If you do use it, please keep it short term.

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I've read about the dangers of high Loperamide dosing and am aware that it's just precipitating the WDs. Thankfully, it seems to be working well with no ill effects so far. My plan is to only use it very short term and taper fast and hard. I'm also coming off an oxy addiction and this has been the only thing that has worked for me. In an hour I take another 30mg dose, then drop to 24mg tomorrow and drop another 4mg a day every day after that until I'm down to zero. Using Lope seems worth the risk. After spending hours researching it it appears that most, maybe all cases of nasty side effects were related to much higher does that were potentiated or folks that were opiate naive to begin with trying to catch a high. 30mg-50mg/daily, by all accounts, seems to be safe(ish) in those with high opiate tolerance that aren't potentiating it.

If you, or anyone else, feels this is still a very unwise decision and has real risks at the doses I'm taking (about 30mg daily for 4 days, then less each day), I would like to know. Thanks again for your comments.

 

[fallzdown]

Today is two weeks kratom (and opioid) free after two years of daily use. Took phenibut for the first 5 days of withdrawal after tapering kratom from an ounce a day to 2 grams. I'm back to being 90% 'me' now.

So long kratom. Hello Summer!

Congratulations! That is a HUGE achievement!!!! I'm looking forward to being Kratom free as well. I'm hoping today is my last day of taking it- if I even have to. I'm so glad to hear you were able to get off of it. Most people don't know how truly hard this can be.

CfZ- Really glad to hear you're getting the scale. It will be instrumental to your success. Update us each day if you can so we can follow your taper. It'll be helpful to those of us who are also trying to quit and if you run into any issues, there will be plenty of people here to offer ideas and support.

 

[CfZrx]

I have recently drank my 3rd teaspoon of the day. That was about 1pm. I was feeling kinda fevery and uneasy before. Now with the 3rd teaspoon and a puff of chron I am feeling optimistic and going to go for a run for circulations sake.

 

[fallzdown]

I have recently drank my 3rd teaspoon of the day. That was about 1pm. I was feeling kinda fevery and uneasy before. Now with the 3rd teaspoon and a puff of chron I am feeling optimistic and going to go for a run for circulations sake.

Yup. Fever and "uneasy" are classic first signs of withdrawal symptoms. They begin there and get much worse. Not trying to scare you, but now that you've had a minor taste of WD, you know how long before it begins and can tweak your taper if need be. Exercise is a key component in recovery, glad to hear you're going for a run. It'll get your endocrine system which is helpful during this period. Keep it up man!

 

[pinpoint]

Exercise is a key component in recovery

Bingo. The easiest times I've had quitting opioids have been when I'm in the midst of an exercise regimen. It's like the last thing you want to do but when you're done you feel so alive.

If anyone has any ?s about Kratom for me just PM because I'm retiring from this megathread.

 

[when I dream]

Does anyone who has tried the "extracts" (UEI,FST,OEB, etc) know if they produce respiratory depression? I have a heard a few times on here of people nodding on the extracts but it doesn't sound like hypoventilation is present.

 

[fallzdown]

Does anyone who has tried the "extracts" (UEI,FST,OEB, etc) know if they produce respiratory depression? I have a heard a few times on here of people nodding on the extracts but it doesn't sound like hypoventilation is present.

I'll allow someone more educated on the matter than myself to provide a specific answer. However, in the meantime, I would hazard to guess anything that acts as a CNS depressant, such as Kratom and especially the extracts due to their concentration of the active alkaloids, could lead to respiratory depression. I certainly would NOT take any extract and drink alcohol or mix with a benzo. That's asking for trouble.

 

[Mycophile]

Does anyone who has tried the "extracts" (UEI,FST,OEB, etc) know if they produce respiratory depression? I have a heard a few times on here of people nodding on the extracts but it doesn't sound like hypoventilation is present.

Well, although this is not a scientific answer...when I bought UEI I figured that since plain leaf extract does not really cause CNS depression that therefore UEI wouldn't either (NOT a good way to guess because UEI probably has lots of stuff in it plain leaf doesn't and is stronger)....and so I decided to drink a bottle and a half of red wine on it which I would NOT do on a serious CNS depressant or Opiate like Percocet.

Long story short...I felt AMAZING...got really drunk AND really high on the UEI all at the same time, then popped 3 benadryls and 4 milligrams of melatonin to put myself to sleep on all of it as I do that every night....and I never experienced even the SLIGHTEST hint of respiratory depression or shallow breathing and the hang over the next day was no worse than usual from drinking alone.

That being said...what I did is NOT any kind of solid proof that UEI doesn't produce respiratory depression at all, it is nothing more than my anecdotal story and I could try the same thing again and die, or end up doing it again and be fine but someone else might die...or maybe even everyone might be fine on the combo and it still wouldn't be real PROOF that UEI doesn't produce respiratory depression.


But as being perhaps a bit of an idiot, I wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing all over again as it was a lot of fun and felt great and TO ME it felt safe but I wouldn't drink more than I did most likely...and I have a MASSIVE tolerance so I could have drank 3 times the amount but I wouldn't venture to do so.

But just because I feel safe doing it doesn't make it safe and it's probably not...but I can still say that I am pretty damn sure if I'd had that wine on Percocet or Vicodin I would have experienced more respiratory depression than I did.

I think that it MIGHT be a safe bet that things like Perc or Vic MIGHT be stronger CNS depressants than UEI...but still none of it is proof.

Best to be safe and not follow my example...

 

[Mycophile]

I'll allow someone more educated on the matter than myself to provide a specific answer. However, in the meantime, I would hazard to guess anything that acts as a CNS depressant, such as Kratom and especially the extracts due to their concentration of the active alkaloids, could lead to respiratory depression. I certainly would NOT take any extract and drink alcohol or mix with a benzo. That's asking for trouble.

While I think your answer here is certainly the very smart one, I just want to pass along that most people around here usually agree that PLAIN LEAF kratom (not extracts which are a whole other ball game) is not usually a very strong CNS depressant in the way that pharm opiates are.

That doesn't mean it doesn't suppress respiration at all, just that it is PROBABLY not AS strong a CNS depressant as other opioids/opiates/downers.

 

[when I dream]

If those extracts don't produce significant hypoventilation and still have high painkilling properties it's ludicrous to me that the medical community isn't doing more research into them. It would seem we have at least the basis for a potent painkiller with a much smaller chance of overdose. Am I missing something here?

I am considering trying some of the OEB out, a legal attainable drug that can cause nodding is just too tempting not to try once. I plan to get 5 grams, try 1 gram to start with and be done with it once those 5 grams are gone - back to plain leaf. Hopefully those don't become my famous last words.

Edit: p.s. I don't plan on mixing anything with it but weed.

 

[Hammilton]

I doubt you'll be nodding from the oxindole enhanced product, it's very stimulating, in a way not too dissimilar to amphetamine.