Opioids Kratom Mega Thread V.4

[Hammilton]

Ah I would kill for some kratom its not really popular down here in wisconsin. Haven't heard much about it sadly.

That's probably because it's Schedule I in Wisconsin now, also why the comment after yours about easy access with an internet connection is probably not true, good luck finding a vendor to send an order to WI.

 

[when I dream]

Your receptors are less saturated after a longer period of abstinence (e.g. over night). It's pretty much that simple.

I have to believe that the sleep itself helps to clear your receptors as well. I can abstain for 8-9 hours overnight and I'll get a bigger feeling than if I abstained for 12 hours but was awake the whole time. Maybe it's just me though.

 

[fallzdown]

Kratom is Schedule I in WI? Wow. I had no idea.
I've been using Kratom for 2 years. Roughly the exact same amount of time I've been sober from alcohol. Funny how that happens (not "haha" funny). I've used it daily in that time and have tried many, many stains from many, many vendors. The very first time I used it was 5g from a headshop and I swear it felt like 5mg of Percocet (which was a GREAT feeling way back then). So I kept using it. Got addicted. Tried to quit numerous times but the WD, at least for me, is absolutely unbearable.
SO, I've spent the past 3 nights reading the Lope Mega Thread hoping that will help.

I've had a script for K-pins for many years and have never found that it potentiates Kratom. Grapefruit Juice also never worked for me, or maybe it has but I didn't notice because of how often I take it and with varying doses.

Kratom is fantastic for opiate withdrawals and if you're opiate naive, it's a lot of fun by itself. But a daily habit can sneak up on you and it's hell to quit. Not surprised to hear about WI, but it's rather sad. I've known many H addicted acquaintances able to trade the needle for the tea and become much healthier, more productive people. Wish the medical community was more aware of how helpful the plant can.

 

[deruyityn]

Total opposite for me and Im usually the most sensitive person for drugs not letting me sleep.

Then again I take alot less than you from what ive read you take 7+ grams? I never go above 4 grams as I find it just makes me feel bad.

I can sleep even right after taking it. I took it once before going to a club and was home in a couple of hours and went to sleep normally. It has only helped me sleep. Usually it takes me 3+ hours to sleep but on krat Im asleep within an hour which is unheard of for me.

"An evening"?

You don't find it interferes with your sleep if you dose close to bedtime?

I find my last dose has to wear off like at least 5 hours before bedtime or I can't fall asleep.

I don't understand how anyone is able to fall asleep easily on Kratom.

It keeps me wide awake.

 

[Mycophile]

Can anyone confirm whether or not it is true that Kratom is 17 times stronger than Morphine??

Someone else claimed it was the case but I find that very hard to believe seeing as Morphine is a MUCH stronger pain killer than Kratom and though I've never indulged in it myself from what I have been told a strong dose of Morphine blows plain leaf Kratom out of the water in terms of Opiate euphoria, making this claim harder for me to believe.

Thanks.

 

[banana king 84]

That's probably because it's Schedule I in Wisconsin now, also why the comment after yours about easy access with an internet connection is probably not true, good luck finding a vendor to send an order to WI.

Yeah, it's been banned in 4 states, IN, TN, and Vermont are the others. In fact one of the early sellers of kratom, an ethnobotanical site, moved from Madison, WI to Illinois just for that reason.

 

[when I dream]

Can anyone confirm whether or not it is true that Kratom is 17 times stronger than Morphine??

Someone else claimed it was the case but I find that very hard to believe seeing as Morphine is a MUCH stronger pain killer than Kratom and though I've never indulged in it myself from what I have been told a strong dose of Morphine blows plain leaf Kratom out of the water in terms of Opiate euphoria, making this claim harder for me to believe.

Thanks.

I believe it is the 7-hydroxymitragynine that is 17x the potency of morphine. Since it is present in kratom is such small amounts though, even a large dose probably doesn't get you very much, hence why plain leaf doesn't seem nearly as potent as morphine.

 

[furryfreek]

I was thinking about starting a new thread about this, but I wanted to share a recent experience that demonstrates the commonly underestimated power of kratom.

First a really quick background; the last time I used an opioid other than kratom (at least until this experience) was November of 2010. I had a moderately high level opioid addiction then, using about 1/4-1/2 gram of ECP daily, although the whole addiction from beginning to end was only about 2 years (started with oxy, moved to opana and then to heroin). I lost my only connect to an arrest, and even though he wasn't jailed somehow, he refused to sell to me because he thought I ratted him out (I didn't). I decided to use heavy drinking to help me through my cold-turkey withdrawal, and although it was obviously still hellish, the alcohol did help a lot. I will say that from when I first started drinking, I almost never got hangovers, no matter how much I drank so unless that applies to you as well I wouldn't recommend it as I'm sure withdrawaling and being hungover at the same time would be unbearable.

Anyways, as you can probably guess, that led me into nearly a four year alcohol addiction which ended promptly in January 2014 when I discovered kratom. Opiates will always be my DOC and the alcohol ended up just being a placeholder in between my first opioid addiction and my kratom addiction. Currently have been using about 20-30 grams of mostly Bali kratom daily.

Well, as it happens, Monday this week I acquired 8 oxy IR 15s for free. Against my better judgement, and after over 5 years of being clean from "hard" opioids I decided that I wanted to feel that way again. However, since I have only been using kratom, I really didn't know where my tolerance was in regards to painkillers. I started with one 15mg, and when it became clear that that wasn't nearly enough, I took 2 more about 45 minutes later. Got a nice feeling after that, but it wasn't even close to how high I had expected 45 mg to get me. Yesterday I decided to take the remaining 5 all in one dose (75mg). Felt very nice, but to be honest, I had truly hoped that that dose would have gotten me into nod territory. Wasn't even close though.

Now, you could make the argument that I still have tolerance from my first run of opioid addiction. I don't think this is the case however, as when I first began using kratom, 1-2 grams was all it took to get me as high as I wanted. If I had had a leftover tolerance, I doubt that small of a dose would have produced enjoyable effects.

To be honest, I am quite astounded as to my level of tolerance from using nothing but kratom (no extracts just plain leaf). 75mg of oxy certainly isn't a huge dose, but even back during my first addiction 75mg would have at least got me a semi-satisfying high. I have a new respect for the potency of kratom now, and I am seriously considering tapering down and quitting even though kratom has dramatically improved my quality of life compared to a year and a half ago. Up until yesterday I really didn't think kratom withdrawal would be too bad, especially since I have experienced heroin withdrawal, but now I'm not so sure.

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully my experience will help people make a more informed choice as to whether they want to begin/continue using kratom. Thanks for reading guys.

I worked up to a similar dose of ~24g per day over about six months (more like 12 if you include the prior period irregular use before I got hooked) until I eventually decided to cold turkey. It was quite grim for a few days, but with a week off work and a few* benzos it wasn't too bad. I felt pretty strung out the first day but not that bad (think I took 1mg of etizolam that evening). The next two days were mostly spent curled up in bed shivering and feeling sorry for myself (2mg etizolam both days; one at around 3pm and another at about 8pm). I was still feeling shit for a week or so following that, but I was able to go out and do stuff (think I managed to sting another 2.5mg of etizolam out over the rest of the week - oh and a co-codamol [5mg codeine?] was taken at some point) and it continued to linger slightly for another two or three weeks.

* Seriously, you don't want to trade a kratom habit for and addiction to benzo's, though they are far less toxic than alcohol which, for the sake of avoiding relapse, might be worth avoiding in your case, JC. The amount of etizolam I took during my CT is the absolute upper limit of what I would feel comfortable with taking in such a short space of time and only if followed by at least two or three weeks with no benzos at all. This is coming from someone with an above average level of self-discipline (sure, everyone likes to think that, but I do have a decent track record - my brief kratom and ongoing tobacco addictions being my only major drug-related cock-up's to date) so those of a more compulsive disposition would be advised to set their limits lower still in such circumstances..

 

[when I dream]

I did actually consider benzos as an aid for tapering. Believe it or not, benzos are just about the only class of addictive drugs that I never got addicted to and never really particularly enjoyed all that much. I never seemed to get that euphoria people talk about. I've actually been prescribed alprazolam for sleep issues a few times and never abused it.

Obviously I can't say for sure that I wouldn't develop some new love of benzos if I were to use them to help me through withdrawal but I do feel like I could stop using them once the acute symptoms end. Though, I'm still not even sure I want to quit using kratom yet, it really has helped me a lot. But either way thank you for your response man, definitely good to know that benzos may be able to help.

 

[furryfreek]

Actually, if I had to choose one bit of advice for someone in a similar position to me around the time I quit kratom, it would be "less is more". I found kratom very beneficial (and still do now that I'm using it again after a six month break, though only two or three 4g doses per week) it has helped me, to an extent, with both depression and social anxiety, for which I rate it far more highly than its recreational value. The thing is, once my tolerance reached a certain point, the negatives caught up with the positives and its therapeutic index narrowed to a hairs width. From that point on, my habit was nothing but a burden with no reason to continue except to delay the withdrawal.

If you can manage to stick with the amount you're currently taking without loosing its benefits then fair enough, but otherwise it really is worth getting the W/D over and done with, taking a break and then sticking to moderate and, above all else, sustainable level of usage. Not that I mean to rush you or anything; my choice of timing was probably more significant than the use of benzos. I think it is possible to receive sustained benefits from kratom, but only if physical dependence is avoided. That may be easier said than done, but I think it should work out so long as you're properly determined to get the very most out of kratom by making it work for you rather than end up working for it. Maybe I'm a bit of a special case, but having actually experienced the negatives of a fairly heavy kratom habit and compared that with the benefits of moderate use, I actually feel like I'm now in a far better position to keep my use under control as I know just how ridiculous it would be to become a slave to the stuff again.

 

[CfZrx]

Hi, my name is CfZ and I am a slave to Kratom. I spend 100 plus dollars monthly and I'm sick of it. My habit is 6 teaspoons daily. Today I am starting my taper at 5.5 teaspoons with a goal of 3 teaspoons by tapers end. Anyone else in the same boat? Please join me as we share our taper tales peace

 

[fallzdown]

Hi, my name is CfZ and I am a slave to Kratom. I spend 100 plus dollars monthly and I'm sick of it. My habit is 6 teaspoons daily. Today I am starting my taper at 5.5 teaspoons with a goal of 3 teaspoons by tapers end. Anyone else in the same boat? Please join me as we share our taper tales peace

I've tried to quit many times before with no success. After a few months on the plant (plain leaf at about 16 grams a day) I would taper down until I'd get to around 6 grams a day. 3 grams twice daily. I could maintain that for a week or so but I'd get the shits something fierce and mad lethargy. I would deal with it though then jump off. Once I jump, it's HELL. Shivering, sweats, RLS, you name it. That's AFTER tapering down.

Right now I'm trying to quit an oxy and Kratom addiction using Loperamide and so far the results have been fantastic, but it can be dangerous. The best advice I could give you:
1- ABSOLUTELY MUST BUY A SCALE. Using a teaspoon isn't going to cut it my friend. You need to know the exact dose you're getting each and every time.
2- Find the lowest dose that you're comfortable with and stick with it for a week. NO MORE on any given day. Just that exact dose. Since you're using a teaspoon to measure, dump out whatever your normal "teaspoon dose" is onto the scale so you have a sense of how many grams you're taking. My guess is it's in the neighborhood of 10 grams but I could be wrong.
3- After a week on that same dose everyday and NO MORE than that dose, ever, cut it by 25% and see how that works. Should be fine, but you may need to cut it by less. The key is to go nice and slow. However, this is hard for those of us with poor self control. If you can manage, this is your best bet. Each week dose down again and stay at that level for 5-7 days before your next taper.
4- Once you get low enough you may notice diarrhea and lethargy. Imodium and caffeine will help, but if you have anxiety due to withdrawals, the caffeine will make it worse. Just keep that in mind.
5- The last few (2-4 grams a day) is the hardest. You may be tempted to jump but I find that I still have insomnia. Last time I tried this I was taking only 2 grams at night and that worked great but I still couldn't jump from there. If that happens, go to 1 gram a night.

I can not stress enough the importance of having a scale. Buy one immediately if you want to succeed.
I do not have the self control to taper effectively and I always get jammed up when jumping from 2 grams a day to 0. This time I'm trying the Loperamide method and am pleased with the results, but it's only the second day. Let me know if you have any other questions, I've been at this for 2 years.

 

[cojonu]

Nice to know I m not the only one, the restlessness can be anywhere, last time it happened Italy upper body
Z z

 

[pinpoint]

Today is two weeks kratom (and opioid) free after two years of daily use. Took phenibut for the first 5 days of withdrawal after tapering kratom from an ounce a day to 2 grams. I'm back to being 90% 'me' now.

So long kratom. Hello Summer!

 

[furryfreek]

Everyone's different, but tapering just didn't work out for me. It just seemed to drag out the pain for ages and the cravings were a real pain. I had much better luck with just C/Ting and getting the worst of it over and done with within a week or so.

 

[pbuilder]

I've tried to quit many times before with no success. After a few months on the plant (plain leaf at about 16 grams a day) I would taper down until I'd get to around 6 grams a day. 3 grams twice daily. I could maintain that for a week or so but I'd get the shits something fierce and mad lethargy. I would deal with it though then jump off. Once I jump, it's HELL. Shivering, sweats, RLS, you name it. That's AFTER tapering down.

Right now I'm trying to quit an oxy and Kratom addiction using Loperamide and so far the results have been fantastic, but it can be dangerous. The best advice I could give you:
1- ABSOLUTELY MUST BUY A SCALE. Using a teaspoon isn't going to cut it my friend. You need to know the exact dose you're getting each and every time.
2- Find the lowest dose that you're comfortable with and stick with it for a week. NO MORE on any given day. Just that exact dose. Since you're using a teaspoon to measure, dump out whatever your normal "teaspoon dose" is onto the scale so you have a sense of how many grams you're taking. My guess is it's in the neighborhood of 10 grams but I could be wrong.
3- After a week on that same dose everyday and NO MORE than that dose, ever, cut it by 25% and see how that works. Should be fine, but you may need to cut it by less. The key is to go nice and slow. However, this is hard for those of us with poor self control. If you can manage, this is your best bet. Each week dose down again and stay at that level for 5-7 days before your next taper.
4- Once you get low enough you may notice diarrhea and lethargy. Imodium and caffeine will help, but if you have anxiety due to withdrawals, the caffeine will make it worse. Just keep that in mind.
5- The last few (2-4 grams a day) is the hardest. You may be tempted to jump but I find that I still have insomnia. Last time I tried this I was taking only 2 grams at night and that worked great but I still couldn't jump from there. If that happens, go to 1 gram a night.

I can not stress enough the importance of having a scale. Buy one immediately if you want to succeed.
I do not have the self control to taper effectively and I always get jammed up when jumping from 2 grams a day to 0. This time I'm trying the Loperamide method and am pleased with the results, but it's only the second day. Let me know if you have any other questions, I've been at this for 2 years.

Loperamide in high doses is very cardiotoxic so don't trade habits and remember, loperamide is just another opiate, if you use it to cover withdrawals you are only postponing them. Do some research on high dose loperamide and cardiac arythmia's and decide if it's worth the risk to come off kratom. If you do use it, please keep it short term.

 

[CfZrx]

Great to hear your stories! I'll buy a scale. Today I had a half teaspoon in the early morn to go back to sleep, now I'll take 1 teaspoon. I think that 1 tsp equals about 3 grams because that is the weight of a tsp of flour. But that is just a guess, you are right abou the scale. Today my goal is 5.5 tsp again (Day2 Kratom Taper).

 

[fallzdown]

Loperamide in high doses is very cardiotoxic so don't trade habits and remember, loperamide is just another opiate, if you use it to cover withdrawals you are only postponing them. Do some research on high dose loperamide and cardiac arythmia's and decide if it's worth the risk to come off kratom. If you do use it, please keep it short term.

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I've read about the dangers of high Loperamide dosing and am aware that it's just precipitating the WDs. Thankfully, it seems to be working well with no ill effects so far. My plan is to only use it very short term and taper fast and hard. I'm also coming off an oxy addiction and this has been the only thing that has worked for me. In an hour I take another 30mg dose, then drop to 24mg tomorrow and drop another 4mg a day every day after that until I'm down to zero. Using Lope seems worth the risk. After spending hours researching it it appears that most, maybe all cases of nasty side effects were related to much higher does that were potentiated or folks that were opiate naive to begin with trying to catch a high. 30mg-50mg/daily, by all accounts, seems to be safe(ish) in those with high opiate tolerance that aren't potentiating it.

If you, or anyone else, feels this is still a very unwise decision and has real risks at the doses I'm taking (about 30mg daily for 4 days, then less each day), I would like to know. Thanks again for your comments.

 

[fallzdown]

Today is two weeks kratom (and opioid) free after two years of daily use. Took phenibut for the first 5 days of withdrawal after tapering kratom from an ounce a day to 2 grams. I'm back to being 90% 'me' now.

So long kratom. Hello Summer!

Congratulations! That is a HUGE achievement!!!! I'm looking forward to being Kratom free as well. I'm hoping today is my last day of taking it- if I even have to. I'm so glad to hear you were able to get off of it. Most people don't know how truly hard this can be.

CfZ- Really glad to hear you're getting the scale. It will be instrumental to your success. Update us each day if you can so we can follow your taper. It'll be helpful to those of us who are also trying to quit and if you run into any issues, there will be plenty of people here to offer ideas and support.

 

[CfZrx]

I have recently drank my 3rd teaspoon of the day. That was about 1pm. I was feeling kinda fevery and uneasy before. Now with the 3rd teaspoon and a puff of chron I am feeling optimistic and going to go for a run for circulations sake.