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Lysergamides - Why haven't they hit the RC market?

Lightning-Nl

Lightning-Nl

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Nov 11, 2012
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I'm curious as to why the lysergamide derivatives have never hit the RC market? From my understanding it might be due to the fact that synthesizing lysergamide derivatives is incredibly difficult. But so are the Quaalude analogues, so why not the ergolines?

I guess, I'm trying to understand what makes these chemicals so difficult to synthesize. Are precursors hard to get? Is synthesizing LSD more profitable/easier anyways?
 
Methaqualone analogues are an order of magnitude easier than lysergamides and they have easily accessible precursors. Lysergamides have heavily watched and controlled precursors.

However, there have been a few to be sold, LSZ for instance.
 
Why would somebody synth AL-LAD or LSZ when the synth is more complex than good ol' LSD?
Or am I misinformed?
 
I forget other countries don't have analogue acts. I assume the precursors are still illegal though, not to mention the synth. If all the other processes are illegal why care if the product is illegal?

There are many lude analogues (see here) the most popular being Methylmethaqualone and Etaqualone afaik.
 
LSZ has been seen recently, and some other rumored lysergamides with questionable identity.

I really, really really hope these do not turn into another 25x-nbome or 2C-x situation. The lysergamides are so much more sacred.
 
LSZ and AL-LAD have hit the rc market and a third one is supposed to be coming.

Why aren't they more common? Harder synth, harder to get the precursors, lsd is known to be good, sell well and the synth has been worked on for years so lots of chemist just prefer making that, ...
Just makes more sense to do the trypts/2cs which any lab can make without a problem. Maybe with AL-LADs success they'll become more popular.
 
lsdinstability.png


PsychedelicHaze said:
There's analogues for quaaludes?
Click to expand...

Yeah, but quaaludes were discontinued for a reason -- they have a significantly lower margin of safety than similar drugs like benzodiazepines and even some barbiturates. People who use *aqualone chemicals like they're Xanax run the risk of respiratory failure or seizures. Etaqualone is infamously dangerous, but methaqualone itself was too.
 
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I've seen LSZ, and was intrigued, but failed to get my hands on some.

Why aren't they more common? Harder synth, harder to get the precursors, lsd is known to be good, sell well and the synth has been worked on for years so lots of chemist just prefer making that
Click to expand...

Is there anywhere in the world where the precursors would be unregulated, surely someone would set up a lab there, synth it and ship it out to bypass laws.
 
As others have said, they have a few now. Presumably, it has something to do with the difficulty of producing lysergamides vs phenethylamines.

I would hope that the love of lucy would prevail, and it appears as though in some sectors it is :)
 
I always wondered why the 2 position was never played with, it seems that metabolisation would form a ring around this area so an addition of a methoxy similar to this: http://imgur.com/IUxALsw
IUxALsw


; would create a much more potent form of LSD. Maybe a methyl or hydroxy would be better, I am unsure, but this position has been forgotten for some reason, is it possible or am I barking up the wrong tree?
 
Because RCs only seem to succeed when they are less expensive then their similar counterparts. I have seen LSZ but it is more expensive than LSD, while NBOME compounds are VERY cheap and very widespread.
 
0Tp4coV.png

Based on the numbers found in this figure (source: http://youtu.be/BXBysH125KM?t=45m40s), I have reason to believe that the piperidide substituted analog of LSD -- LSD-Pip -- holds a lot of promise as a potential new RC lysergamide for future development and research, hopefully in the same successful vein that the producers of the recent batch of AL-LAD and LSZ have thus far enjoyed. I say this on account of a few of its binding affinity values relative to those of LSD, principally a similar binding affinity as LSD's for the 5HT-2a, 5HT-2c, 5HT-7, D3 and D4 receptors; increased binding affinity for the 5HT-1a and 5HT-1b receptors; and, importantly, a substantial decrease in 5HT-2b affinity. All of these are good indicators that this compound should play nicely with our neurons much in the manner of LSD and just may come to find good use in the research community.

Concerning its legality and synthesis, does anyone know how legal/economically feasible this might be relative to the production/distribution of AL-LAD or LSZ? I'm assuming the conditions shouldn't be too different (though my chemistry knowledge needs a ton of patching up, admittedly). Considering how quickly AL-LAD was snatched up out of the market, I think it's clear that even despite the massive price gap between the designer lysergamides and other street blotter drugs, the demand is still there and the market is hungry for it. Anyone else think this might be a promising route to explore?
 
:DNA said:
I have reason to believe that the piperidide substituted analog of LSD -- LSD-Pip -- holds a lot of promise as a potential new RC lysergamide for future development and research, hopefully in the same successful vein that the producers of the recent batch of AL-LAD and LSZ have thus far enjoyed. I say this on account of a few of its binding affinity values relative to those of LSD, principally a similar binding affinity as LSD's for the 5HT-2a, 5HT-2c, 5HT-7, D3 and D4 receptors; increased binding affinity for the 5HT-1a and 5HT-1b receptors; and, importantly, a substantial decrease in 5HT-2b affinity. All of these are good indicators that this compound should play nicely with our neurons much in the manner of LSD and just may come to find good use in the research community.
Click to expand...

I agree strongly, in fact that was the first thing I noticed due to it's similar affinity at HT7 (a strong indicator for lack of body load) however it's high affinity for HT6 has me a little worried/excited as agonists at 6 such as the compound EMDT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMDT inhibit short and long term memory formation, but this could also mean it has GABA-ergic activity (don't quote me on this), resulting in a more anxiolytic compound and overall a more recreational drug. The increase in D2 action is also quite interesting and of course it's much higher HT1a content.

Also notable is it's affinity for HT1D, which would increase dopamine release, so a much more euphoric and stimulating compound would be seen. The whole thing would be very interesting and similar to LSZ but with much higher potential for recreation than with either LSZ or LSD, which in my mind is not such a good thing but I'm a fan of those deep, meaningful trips. My view is not that of the overall majority though, so I would expect to see a much higher sales rate than with the former analogues and a feeling perhaps similar to 25C-NBOMe (which for me was very stimulating and euphoric but I don't have the binding affinities to hand so I couldn't comment completely).
Thank you for this data, but again does anyone have info as to what impact a 2-substitution would have on the compound?
 
blueberries said:
Also notable is it's affinity for HT1D, which would increase dopamine release, so a much more euphoric and stimulating compound would be seen. The whole thing would be very interesting and similar to LSZ but with much higher potential for recreation than with either LSZ or LSD, which in my mind is not such a good thing but I'm a fan of those deep, meaningful trips. My view is not that of the overall majority though, so I would expect to see a much higher sales rate than with the former analogues and a feeling perhaps similar to 25C-NBOMe (which for me was very stimulating and euphoric but I don't have the binding affinities to hand so I couldn't comment completely).
Thank you for this data, but again does anyone have info as to what impact a 2-substitution would have on the compound?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, some people experience a second phase in their LSD trips... The first phase being pure psychedelia for about 4 hours and the second a 4-6 hours trip of introspective thoughts. Some people enjoy this phase and for some people it's uncomfortable, they get paranoid and even mildly psychotic. According to David Nichols this might be because some people form a metabolite of LSD that is more potent DA agonist which causes the (for some) mentally unpleasant effects. He explains this more in depth in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJtdZUy1LYE around 47 minutes into or so.
 
As pointed out earlier in this thread, research chemical lysergamides (namely, AL-LAD and LSZ) have hit the market. The catch is, they just suck compared to the real thing.
 
I don't know if they suck. Real LSD isn't too great either, honestly. I'd take 25D over the best "fluff", "needlepoint", whatever, any day.

Real LSD lasts like 3 hours too long, and makes it hard for me to communicate. *shrugs*

@blueberries, you got a ref for that 5-HT7 claim?

And that chart only lists affinities guys. Efficacy is something we have to keep at the forefront of our minds when selecting new compounds for the market. LSD-PIP could end up being an antagonist at all those sites...
 
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