Lysergamides - Why haven't they hit the RC market?

[Docta]

The mob are lining up trumpeting Lysergamides as a possible next-gen RC and there entitled and opinion. Trouble is that researchers have been there done that and formed unexpected total interruption of hallucinogenic activity from very small modification and substitution. Along with promising increases in dopaminergic potency that could be developed for medical applications.

The tetracyclic framework no a aromatic two-ring indole nucleus along with its carboxy at 8-position present several locations given to modified that will effect structure-activity. Unfortunately more often then not the results were poor.

(Brimblecombe and Pinder 1975).
Substitution @ N(1) Steep attenuation or abolishes hallucinogenic activity.
Substitution @ C(2) With halogens (Bromine, Iodine, etc.) abolishes hallucinogenic activity coupled with antagonize effect of LSD.
(Pffaf et al., not submitted for peer revue).
Substitution @ C(12) or 13 or 14 is a formidable task. Unperturbed 12-hydroxy prepared years earlier proved a disablement, a 20 percent reduction in LSD potency.
Reduction @ 9, 10-double bond abolishes hallucinogenic activity.


Stereochemistry was found to be the mast critical for the lysergic acid molecule.
(R)Stereochemistry inversion @ C(5) and C(8) abolishes hallucinogenic activity. [C(5) inversion product: l-lysergic acid] [C(8) Epimerisation product: isolysergic acid]

You'll notice I haven't mentioned substitution @ N(6) nitrogen, this is because I'm still waiting on a translation of (Nakahara and Niwaguchi 1971; Niwaguchi et al. 1976) there papers are needed to make companionship with the paper (Hoffman 1987).

When I've researched to by comfort Hoffman's ummarized paper we'll leave the EFFECTS OF N(6) SUBSTITUTION alone for now.

 

[poopstation]

Concerning its legality and synthesis, does anyone know how legal/economically feasible this might be relative to the production/distribution of AL-LAD or LSZ? I'm assuming the conditions shouldn't be too different (though my chemistry knowledge needs a ton of patching up, admittedly). Considering how quickly AL-LAD was snatched up out of the market, I think it's clear that even despite the massive price gap between the designer lysergamides and other street blotter drugs, the demand is still there and the market is hungry for it. Anyone else think this might be a promising route to explore?

per the route Shulgin used to AL-LAD in TIHKAL.... AL-LAD was 3 additional steps past LSD, he used LSD as the starting material:
LSD->6-cyano-nor-LSD
6-cyano-nor-LSD->nor-LSD
nor-LSD->AL-LAD

so from a legal perspective, even if AL-LAD didn't fall under the analog act then you'd have an ALD-52 sort of situation where the synthesis of the compound is illegal because you use a schedule 1 compound as the starting material. so either way, you're screwed for having to handle LSD to even get to the analog. there are some countries in eastern europe where ergoloids can be obtained, however importing them over to the west would be a big problem.

one thing that i've been very interested in is the fact that AL-LAD must be made one of two ways that i can think of:
1) it's being made clandestine, illegally, because of the need of having to handle LSD in order to make it an analog.
2) it's being made through a more obscure route that doesn't involve LSD directly. if such a route exists then this route would still require the use of heavily watched ergoloids and for legal reasons, would probably be most fitting for the AL-LAD synthesis to carry out in the eastern european country in which the ergoloids aren't heavily watched. that way they're not actually doing anything illegal, assuming that country doesn't have analog laws (any country that slack on precursors probably doesn't have analog laws but who knows).

has anybody seen any routes to go from whatever ergoloid to AL-LAD without it using LSD as an intermediary?

 

[FunctionalOlfactio]

This speculation on novel lysergamide effects is interesting. The idea of having something similar to LSD is sweet. I have to remind myself of my experiences with other research chemicals so I don't find myself getting to excited while drinking and attempt to order one. Other research chemicals taught me even very thorough research on pharmacokinetics and pharmacology isn't sufficient to determine the therapeutic value of a chemical. The only certain way to know effects is repeated human experimentation in a variety of physiological settings.
There is to much uncertainty in regards to effects and the clear-net research chemical seen has a substantial risk of getting busted in the English speaking world. I also have noticed the end user level of interest in research chemicals has declined* while governmental interest has increased (based on the amount or research chemical related legislation being introduced in the UK and USA). These reasons keep me away from attempting to mail order analogues. I think demand is low due the potential consequences outweighing the likelihood of successfully obtaining them.
They wouldn't become available during this time of the year through clear-net mail order in the northern hemisphere anyway, there would be mail problems.

*http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=research+chemical&=

 

[Joker11789]

This speculation on novel lysergamide effects is interesting. The idea of having something similar to LSD is sweet. I have to remind myself of my experiences with other research chemicals so I don't find myself getting to excited while drinking and attempt to order one. Other research chemicals taught me even very thorough research on pharmacokinetics and pharmacology isn't sufficient to determine the therapeutic value of a chemical. The only certain way to know effects is repeated human experimentation in a variety of physiological settings.
There is to much uncertainty in regards to effects and the clear-net research chemical seen has a substantial risk of getting busted in the English speaking world. I also have noticed the end user level of interest in research chemicals has declined* while governmental interest has increased (based on the amount or research chemical related legislation being introduced in the UK and USA). These reasons keep me away from attempting to mail order analogues. I think demand is low due the potential consequences outweighing the likelihood of successfully obtaining them.
They wouldn't become available during this time of the year through clear-net mail order in the northern hemisphere anyway, there would be mail problems.

*http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=research+chemical&=

You killed my dream lol Afro man promised we could sell crack on the internet but not yet back in like 2004 so by now we should be able to move other stuff easily and have people know and trust sites ..without the cop problems .

 

[Lightning-Nl]

Hate to bump an old thread, but I came across an interesting study claiming that LSZ is more potent as a psychedelic than LSD.

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/azetidine-lsd.pdf

 

[sekio]

At least one isomer is. That PLoS ONE study measured Ki of LSD and the 4 (or was it 3) isomeric azetizines at the serotonin receptors.

 

[blueberries]

I have information that ETH-LAD, ALD-52, LSD-Pip and another unknown lysergide will be hitting the markets soon. I, for one, cannot wait for this and we should expect to see them in the next coming months.

 

[:DNA]

I have information that ETH-LAD, ALD-52, LSD-Pip and another unknown lysergide will be hitting the markets soon. I, for one, cannot wait for this and we should expect to see them in the next coming months.

Looks like Christmas is coming early this year, boys. Let the acid analogues rain softly, with hope!

 

[borega]

I know that at least one lysergide is beeing held back until the UK Law has reacted on AL-LAD and LSZ. They already announced that they would do so, so lets hope for the best!

 

[black53]

I have information that ETH-LAD, ALD-52, LSD-Pip and another unknown lysergide will be hitting the markets soon. I, for one, cannot wait for this and we should expect to see them in the next coming months.

hope you are right especially about the eth-lad

 

[Dresden]

300 mcg of LSZ was a big disappointment for me. It was nowhere nearly as strong as 300 mcg of LSD would have been. I don't think the LSD molecule is very amenable to chemical substitution.

 

[black53]

AL-LAD is the better of the two for most people.

 

[blueberries]

I found LSZ to be very emotional, slightly dark and quite deep. Looking at the receptor affinities of LSD-Pip I reckon it'll be similar, perhaps a little more euphoric. ETH-LAD and ALD-52 should be the real winners though. I really wouldn't mind if the ALD was put into microdots, I know there's a lot of rumours about it's instability but I figure just to be sure it should be sealed.

Also I found AL-LAD to be lacking a bit. Then again I only tried it twice and the second time was with some 2C-B too. I started to get those generic visuals that NBOMe's give and figured it was the AL-LAD rather than the 2C-B as 2C-B is always very mescaline like to me. However a lot of people have been disagreeing with me so I think I need to try it again.

Also I /think/ the mystery analogue could be N-methylfluoro, N-ethyl-Lysergide but I can't be sure.

 

[ebola?]

I have information that ETH-LAD, ALD-52, LSD-Pip and another unknown lysergide will be hitting the markets soon.

We tend to discourage people from stoking the rumor mill like this. . .

ebola

 

[black53]

I actually hope these rumors are wrong because the ones I heard are novel never before tested compounds (and no, not giving names).