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Nebuliser for administration of psychedelic salts?

Blue Druid

Blue Druid

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Joined
Feb 4, 2012
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134
Not a lot of info on this ROA here - only http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/565045-Drug-delivery-with-Nebulizer - but it mainly deals with opiods.

I was in a store the other day and saw a cheap refillable ahsmah style nebuliser & my thinking was that it'd be an effective way to deliver to the lungs certain hcl or fumarate salts that's can't be readily vaporised. Especially for substances that aren't that active orally I thought it might be better ROA. Just dissolve in water, or other liquid, fill the nebuliser & inhale. Possibly also a handy way to moderate dosage too.

So my question is has anyone tried this and is it effective. I'm theorising that as it'd be inhaled into the lungs so give a similar efficacy to smoking/vaporising but get around the issue of drugs being burned up or denatured by the heat. Also I'd expect better bio-availability than taking orally as its going via the lungs rather than being metabolised in the stomach first.
I may be missing something though - possibly wasteage - and there's relatively little info on this ROA that I can see. Though what there is is generally positive.

Nebuliser was only about 40 bucks so I'm considering giving it a go anyway, but thought I'd see if there's any experience, or medical knowledge on this before I do.
 
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I think it is always right to see a path or mission first so I ask you: what compounds do you see yourself nebulizing?
If you can't think of good examples that are also within your reach it would spare us a hassle...

The answer you might give also suggests viability for this ROA, in other words please narrow it down as there are many factors and we cannot be expected to consider all of 'em.
 
My guess is 4-subbed tryptamines that likely wouldn't stand up well to heat or to basicity. 4-AcO-XXT and such. Maybe some non-ring-substituted tryptamines too.
 
My first thought was for its use with DPT as the hcl is available to me and it's reported to be less effective orally & it's a real nose-clogger to snort. Beyond that I've no specific substances in mind at the present but I guess 4 substituted tryptamines are something that springs to mind easily 4-AcO-DET, 4-HO-DPT, etc & MET now I think of it.
I've a few things available so I really wanted a general view of feasibility & effectiveness, but fair enough these substances vary so much I guess I can't expect a generic one-size fits all answer.

Actually another good candidate is 4-AcO-DMT due to it's tendency to degrade into a black gooey mass in solid form, liquid's the best medium for it I've found so far so nebulising it might be a good idea, certainly convenient.
 
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Well, 4-AcO drugs are particularly good candidates because, not only are they susceptible to degrade at temperature, but the ester group is likely to be cleaved during any attempted freebasing. I wouldn't particularly want to go from 0-60 on 4-AcO-DiPT in a heartbeat, but to each their own. In terms of some of the other drugs, though, they may either be supplied as the base (DMT and AMT or others), or converted simply (as in, with less expense and hassle than this nebuliser business). Have you tried/considered plugging? Offputting for some, but a less elaborate and costly, and very effective, way to use.
 
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I imagine it will work quite well. I'm surprised nebulizers aren't more popular in the recreational drug community given that, anecdotally, they work well to increase potency over most other ROAs for stuff like hydromorphone and cocaine and they get past the problems heating has with destroying some compounds and/or creating undesirable byproducts. There was a thread about a guy using a nebulizer with MXE a while back and he said it didn't work well, which surprised me since I figured the lungs would absorb drugs dissolved in water. I asked more at the end of that thread but nobody ever replied. Considering how well vaporizing works with freebase DMT and DPT I imagine nebulizing would work well with tryptamines. I'd personally not go much higher than an IV or IM dose for anything since it'll probably get into the blood rapidly. Also, keep the amount of water you dissolve it in minimal or it'll take forever to breathe in all that vapor. You might want to shorten the hose length too in order to keep much from being deposited along the length and "lost."

In any event, like you said, they're not that expensive, so it's not that much of a risk just to give it a shot. Post back if you try it out please.
 
Nebulizers work on either heat or ultrasonic sound, right? Are all water-dissolved compounds nebulized together with the water or does the ultrasonic vibration affect those compounds differently making them harder to nebulize together with the water? I mean: microwave ovens mostly heat the water in food, is that not similar?

Oh no never mind, the water remains sort of liquid, but just in extremely small droplets like in mist. There is no real change in chemical physics.
 
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When I saw this thread title my mind jumped to DPT as it sucks to snort, & the freebase is a mess to deal with. I'm considering revisting dpt via this ROA now. Do tell how the experiment goes I'm quite curious. And definitely start out at a lowish dose!
 
Yeah dose is going to be difficult to judge I think so better to start out low, particularly with DPT.

Solipsis, my understanding is that they're ultrasonic, like some humidifiers, so it's just a matter of turning the liquid into ultrafine vapor particles that're breathed in. I'm fairly sure there's no heat involved as they're intended for medical/pharmaceutical use anyway.

I'm going to try picking one up over the weekend & probably test with 4-AcO-DMT as a fairly forgiving substance to trial it with. Will report back & let you know how it goes.
 
^I don't think any drug is at its most gentle when inhaled. Have fun, but tread with caution.
 
This is an absolutely facinating idea! Will likely attempt this myself at some point, but don't have the time or resources to do so at the moment. Anyways, please keep us posted regardless of the results.
 
Will do, I got the nebuliser today and I'm planning to run it the next day or so just with water in it to get a feel for how to use it, then try it with 4-AcO-DMT when I have a convenient time.
 
Blue Druid said:
Yeah dose is going to be difficult to judge I think so better to start out low, particularly with DPT.
Click to expand...
Theoretically, one of the beautiful things about nebulizing most recreational psychedelics is that it takes about 7 minutes for most machines to nebulize 2.5mL of a drug solution, allowing for a lot of flexibility in modulating the rate of dosage. Given the rapid onset of vaporized freebase DPT, if you for instance dissolved a dose in 2.5 mL (check the exact rate for your machine) you would probably start feeling it in about 3 minutes and have a good idea if it's going to be intense by 4 or 5, which would be fast enough to spare yourself quite a bit of whatever dose you loaded up if you were worried about it. Assuming a bioavailabilty similar to intramuscular administration, whether a nebulized psychedelic is more comparable to an IM experience or an IV experience will depend on the active dose and its water solubility. Something active in micrograms like 25C could be dissolved in 0.1 mL or less, and could be inhaled in about 30 seconds if you wanted to, and would presumably be very much like an IV experience (not recommended!). Of course, you could also slow down the rate of ingestion as much as you wanted to just by adding more water.
 
Ok so I've tested out the nebuliser with water & it's quite easy to use. I have found myself getting a bit lightheaded just using water in it though.
Don't quite know the reason why but thought I'd better mention it.

I'm now preparing to use the nebuliser with 4-AcO-DMT which I've got pre-prepared dissolved in Rum. I don't know an exact dosage as it had degraded into black goo & was hard to weigh when I came to put it into solution but my best estimate is 7.5-10mg per ml. I'm trying to get roughly in the ballpark of an intermuscular dose and the only reports here I've seen of IM injections of 4-AcO-DMT/4-HO-DMT have been with 8mg & 10mg (apart from one insane trip report on 35mg which I'm not about to replicate), so I'm going with one ml of solution. I'm mixing that in with another 2ml of distiled water to increase volume enough for the nebuliser & make it a bit more fluid & easier to atomise.
I reckon it'll take a minute or 2 to inhale so I expect quite quick penetration to the lungs & brain.

Will let you know how it turns out.
 
Be very careful inhaling alcohol.

People have described that they experience the effects of the alcohol vapors almost immediately. However, the danger and risks are much more significant. Individuals who smoke alcohol are at a much higher risk of an alcohol overdose, referred to as “alcohol poisoning”. In the normal course of drinking, as people become more intoxicated, they generally vomit. Vomiting is the actually your body’s way of preventing an overdose. However, when alcohol bypasses the stomach– as in “smoking” alcohol– there is no effective way to get rid of it.

More concerning with this method is that there is no effective way to measure how much alcohol you are consuming. As an example, if a single cup of alcohol is poured into a container and then vaporized, the drinker can’t discern if they are inhaling the entire cup or a few sips, as residual alcohol remains in the bottle, often obscured by lingering vapors.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2013/06/21/the-dangers-of-smoking-alcohol/
Click to expand...

I snipped out the part about inhaling alcohol bypassing your liver, because it doesn't.
 
So parenteral administration of alcohol doesn't bypass first past administration? That's really interesting, ever other drug enters the bloodstream directly when inhaled, how come ethanol behaves so very, very differently? Obviously drugs in the GI tract are passed through the liver before they enter the blood, but our lungs function as huge, giant osmotic membranes to draw chemicals directly into blood that subsequently enters the heart and then the rest of the body. You're saying, though, that if one inhales alcohol, this blood instead is directed to the liver? Can you help me to understand this mechanism?
 
You're right, it's not technically a parenteral route of administration, though it is frequently referred to as one in informal circles, precisely because it is analogous to them in that it allows a drug to enter the blood before the liver,by people like myself Alexander Shulgin. Mea culpa, I suppose. Still, indulge me, if you would- how come inhaled alcohol undergoes first-pass hepatic metabolism, when cocaine, heroin, DMT, cannabis, and in fact any other commonly inhaled drug does not? Of course most drugs in the blood will eventually be metabolised by the liver, alcohol included, and perhaps the article is vague, but it's written as a popsci piece, I think it's a bit uncharitable to interpret him as intending to do anything other than contrast the metabolic differences between the oral route and inhalation.
 
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