RCs MPA-Methiopropamine has been a life saver but hand tremors are a threat to my job

[Marauder]

I take bupropion which helps with the MPA comedown (there isn't one) but it also limits how high MPA can take me. I also take a lot of vitamin C and other antioxidants. There is a study that shows 5-10 grams of vitamin C 30 minutes before ingestion of meth stops most of the neurotoxicity. Anyway, I have a real problem on my hands (pun.)

To keep it short, MPA has been the best productivity drug I have ever used. I have been using it heavily in July and then started again mid August and since my day begins with insufflation of about 40 mg. I'm sad there is no information about its long term use. It completely destroys adderall, meth, Ritalin and PV, not as a "stimulant (recreation implied) but as a performance enhancing drug. The only thing that comes close is Modafinil but this chemical has a weird habit of only working the first 1-2 times you try it. After that it has zero noticeable effects. Same with Adrafinil (analogue.)

I have been working on and off for the past 3 years. I have been unable to hold down a job for more than 7 months, and these are *good* fucking jobs. 6 figures, non-corporate, a lot of telecommuting, etc. Anyway, the medication (bupropion and ssris) stopped working way back and the only way I can get out of bed is with a stimulant.

So the day starts 9 AM with 40 mg total (2 lines) and I insufflate 40-60 mg at work maybe ~1-2 PM. I usually don't dose again after that except when I'm going home (7 PM.) I feel great that the day is over and insufflate maybe 60 mg. When I get home I don't redose for hours or may take a small line to ward off the mental fog if I need to concentrate. On weekends I insufflate 25 - 50 mg lines almost every 2 - 3 hours. Sometimes I stay up all of Friday and Saturday.

During this entire period I've had no side effects except when I tried much higher doses (150 mg built up over 30 mins.) During these periods a thought flashes in my head: "This is like PV's cousin. Wow." This happens especially if I'm sleep deprived.

The past 3 days I've been noticing hand tremors. They come on very subtly over a long period (unlike 30 mins after a big PV dose) and I kind of ignored them, knowing that I was depleting my dopamine reserves and the only real solution is time away from stims. I can't do this right now however. We are working on important projects and I need to be there everyday at 10 AM both mentally and physically. The MPA doesn't just make me feel awake and laser focused on productive things, it helps a lot with confidence, without the jitteriness of most stims. I just feel happy, normal and more importantly, being communicative and social is a part of the job. It's as important as the work I do.

I failed many interviews when I went in depressed and quiet. "He knows his shit, but we don't think we will jive with the team. We rely on teams working side by side and cohesion matters as much as his talent." That's what they tell my recruiter.

I absolutely love my current job and the MPA is a trade off. I will not keep taking it forever but I'm only on a trial period. So far they love my work but next month they decide whether I'm permanent or not.

Today I was giving a presentation and noticed my hand tremors stronger than usual. I had to hold onto something or keep gesturing to avoid bringing attention to this. I don't know if anyone else noticed and I know that if I begin thinking that, it's just paranoia from the stim itself. However, I need something for the tremors, ASAP. Once that's under control I will begin tapering off (started already actually.) If there's a drug test I can pass it. I never had a job that gave drug tests, but I can only pass a urine test at this point. A blood or hair sample will unveil my secret weapon and who I really am. Ironically, if I'm working my ass off and the test sounds an alarm at the amount of methamphetamine found in my system, you'd think the company would want to hire more of us. The functional junkies. It's half a joke .. let's not get into it and back on topic:

What commonly prescribed meds would help with tremors?

What OTC supps help?

I'm out of muscle relaxers (Rx ones) but the Indian pharmacies take a month. I need something in 2-3 days.

Benzatropine is readily available but I'm not sure how effective it is for stimulant induced tremors, nor what reaction it will have with MPA.

Like Benzatropine (and wellbutrin) I can give other anticholinergic drugs a try. Dramamine?

Nicotine and caffeine counter the drugs above, so I know to stay away from them.


What common conditions can cause acute hand tremors? What excuses would be valid besides: we stop in the halls and they notice, I say: "I had too much coffee, it's one of those days, hahaha (coworkers: I know that feeling, hahaha) and we all move along" Overtime they will pick up on it. This dude goes to the bathroom and comes back fresh and clean and suddenly becomes hard to distract. He sniffles a lot. A cold? perhaps? For months? Patterns. It's all about picking up information to form patterns and see trends.

 

[bennyZA]

I have hand tremors from my neurological meds that sometimes blow people away. I can sometimes barely hold a cup without spilling. I sometimes have trouble writing. It's very, very embarrassing. This is one of the things in my life that has been hardest to deal with. For me at least, there's nothing you can do. It sucks. I've tried everything too. My neurologist also told me that there is not a lot of research into cause it's not considered a major medical issue. I did try beta-blockers, but that didn't help, at all. Muscle relaxers and benzo's don't help either.

Def don't smoke cigarettes, caffeine isn't too bad, but omg. Nicotine makes it so much worse.

The thing that really makes this hard for me is that the more motor control I need, the more I shake. People try not to say anything, but I notice.

 

[spork]

This thread will be better suited in Other Drugs. OD mods, feel free to move if you feel another forum would be a better fit.

 

[Ozekat]

I wish I could answer some of your questions, but I just feel worried in general with this post. I have recently dabbled in meth for the first time (that is what you are referring to when you say MPA, right?) and it is some nasty stuff! Yeah sure, maybe a lot of the stuff about it is pure scare tactics and urban myths, but man meth is no joke and I would tread very, very lightly. I know I will.

Are you prescribed stims, btw?

I'm not pointing fingers, trust me on that. But a lot of little clues in your post point to how you yourself seem concerned with your MPA usage. Such as defending your use of it for motivational reasons, then countering it yourself by saying you're not going to do it forever.....I'm in the same boat to a degree, but sometimes hard drugs are simply hard drugs. I mean there has been strange benefits I have derived from using meth recently such as somehow it has been helping me expel tonsilliths, which for the life of me I do not understand lol and kind of gross anyway, but those things can become a real problem and I love getting them the hell out of my mouth. I know it is a normal phenomenon for humans, and I'm not embarassed about it or anything, but its interesting that snorted meth (all I've done with it besides eat small amounts) really has helped clean this area of my mouth out. Kind of the reverse of meth mouth, lol!

I'm rambling and high (not on meth %)) sorry about that, lol......I'm just not too into stims and I am relieved whenever the crash comes and I'm getting tired of this up and down, crazy fucking drug at this point......

Anyway, please be safe and don't take my words for some random asshole who wants to tell you how to live or whatever, I'm just a bit concerned.

Peace!

Btw thanks for the bit of info on vitamin C reducing neurotoxicity----my favorite vitamin and if I ever do mainline anything it will be massive, MASSIVE amounts of vitamin C.

 

[Tom1234]

can somebody please tell me how to start a newpost/ thread?

 

[Ozekat]

You may have to have bluelighter status first. Reached at 50 posts.

 

[stardust.hero]

can somebody please tell me how to start a newpost/ thread?

Click this:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=58

It will start a new thread for you.

 

[Marauder]

... meth ... (that is what you are referring to when you say MPA, right?) and it is some nasty stuff! Yeah sure, maybe a lot of the stuff about it is pure scare tactics and urban myths, but man meth is no joke and I would tread very, very lightly. I know I will.
Peace!

Hey, no I am not referring to Methamphetamine. I'm referring to an analogue of it called Methiopropamine. I suppose it shares many qualities with meth, but MPA is not popular because it's not euphoric whatsoever. I am not prescribed stims, else I would take them instead. I'm very concerned about my MPA usage, but I'm also concerned about other areas in my life falling apart if I don't use it at least as needed. Unfortunately that's nearly every work day.

I have tried most stims except for the newer ones that came out in the past few months. Euphoria and mania are serious side effects for me, as they cause me to constantly redose, go on binges, and make decisions I end up regretting, whether financial or otherwise. After trying a drug with stimulation but no euphoria, I saw a major improvement in my quality of life. MPA does not make me manic and does not feel fun. I don't feel like redosing unless I have to, usually if I'm staying late at work or I'm doing something I would otherwise avoid due to disinterest.

I'm not suggesting drug use nor am I saying MPA is safe. It's much more dangerous than meth, as far as I'm concerned. We've studied meth, we know what it does to the brain and now to the rest of the body. It's not pretty but MPA lacks any research and will probably never be researched because it's not popular like MDPV or Mephedrone. It's not going to cause an epidemic and gain support from any community.

 

[sekio]

You are acting like you think you're invincible and nothing bad is going to come of this...

MPA is very, very similar to methamphetamine both in terms of structure and effects. The one major difference is methiopropamine is typically sold as a racemic mixture, while methamphetamine is almost always pure dextro-methamphetamine. (This explains why MPA is less euphoric.) By the way, MPA (and to a lesser extent thienylamphetamine) have been researched a long time ago - they aren't new at all, it's just not been widely prescribed as a stimulant because it has a worse side effects profile (more peripheral stimulation, greater effects on blood pressure) than meth/amphetamine. Which is saying something!

Tremor starts to become common with higher-dose amphetamine type drugs. It's also exacerbated by stress, low blood sugar, lack of sleep and the like. It's caused by excessive dopamine/norepinephrine/adrenaline release or outright dysfunction of nerves in the motor cothex. The best option is to make sure you are well-rested, well-fed, and take only the minimum possible dose needed to be functional. Some people say that magnesium supplementation helps twitching and muscle tension, too. If tremor remains, you should abandon the idea of using MPA on a regular basis, before it ends up really bad.

Overuse of methamphetamine, or drugs closely related to methamphetamine, nearly doubles the risk of developing Parkinson's disease, a disorder of the movement system caused by destruction of dopamine-producing cells in the motor pathways. Given that you are developing a tremor, this is a sign you are playing with fire.

If you can't do your job without dosing up, you are dependent and have a problem... especially if you are getting high on MPA in your free time, too No matter how euphoric or not-euphoric you feel, it is roughly the same as being bent on meth all the time, which is not good for cerebral health. The long and short of it is, you should not be on stimulants all day and all night while regularly pulling all-nighters.

Nobody should be taking take 150 mg of meth a day. That is well above the neurotoxic level. Even considering MPA is racemic, that is still 75 mg of dextro-MPA a day. And it's safe to assume MPA is equally as toxic as meth, given its structure.

Don't fool yourself into thinking Vitamin C is going to save your brain, because at that kind of dose levels the meth (even d-amphetamine at that daily level would be toxic) is going to cook your goose regardless.

You can't act like this forever. You will end up either with a serious stimulant habit, getting caught out getting high at work, or something will happen to your heart or brain. You're burning out. Eat better, sleep better, reduce your dose. The tremor you are seeing is a sign you are damaging your body.

ref1:Increased Risk of Parkinson's Disease in Methamphetamine Users, Study Finds

Aug. 1, 2011 — People who abused methamphetamine or other amphetamine-like stimulants were more likely to develop Parkinson's disease than those who did not, in a new study from the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH).

The researchers examined almost 300,000 hospital records from California covering 16 years. Patients admitted to hospital for methamphetamine or amphetamine-use disorders had a 76 per cent higher risk of developing Parkinson's disease compared to those with no disorder.

ref2:Review Article: Methamphetamine and Parkinson's Disease

In experimental animals, exposure to methamphetamine damages dopaminergic fibres in the striatum and their cell bodies in the substantia nigra, echoing the degeneration pattern observed in human patients with PD. Selective damage to dopaminergic terminals in the striatum has also been observed in human methamphetamine users, although there is no evidence so far that methamphetamine damages dopaminergic cell bodies in the human SNpc. Given these results, it is reasonable to think that methamphetamine use may predispose consumers to future development of PD. This hypothesis has been supported by recent epidemiological work indicating that methamphetamine users have an increased risk of developing PD. This is consistent with the persistent neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine in experimental animals and suggests that methamphetamine use may also produce irreversible loss of dopaminergic neurons in the SNpc of human abusers.

 

[dankplantgrower]

Im consistently taken aback by sekios thorough posts and disposition. Thank you for being a knowledgeable and tempered contributor.

OP, if you keep using youre probably going to give yourself the tremors so hard you wont be able to land a job anyway, MPA or not. Then youll really be up the creek. Turn around now man, youre just digging yourself a deeper hole the longer you allow this to continue.

 

[Dev0r]

have you tried 2-fma?'


but if you're developing parkinsons, taking more stims might not be the best idea.

 

[Shamanism]

Try getting a script for dexamphetamine (for add) from your doc or some 2-fa and combine this with some propranolol, but watch your doses, keep them therapeutic, like 2x 20 mg dex or 1x 70mg 2-fa when you take it with a beta blocker.

Also you could look into nootropics, I have a slight tremor myself and since im using a source of choline like DMAE, combined with Picamilon and Noopept, my tremor is greatly reduced and the Picamilon prevents headaches and noopept geves a subtile mental edge, you could try other racetams aswell. Adrenergics can worsen tremor, so don't drink too much coffee at work.

Also to clarify things dopaminergics like cocaine (or to a lesser extent stims with a profile similar to meth-amp I have no experience with 2-fma) greatly induce tremors, so it is important to look for a pure 'functional' stim like d-amp or 2-fa.

 

[Dannlixi]

You should try Selegiline its an maoi-b inhibitor, I'm normally quite shy, but on Selegiline I could talk to anyone anywhere had tons of motivation and it turned Caffeine into Cocaine, unfortunately after 4 months of use it pooped out and now does nothing, I even took a long break and tried again without success.

I'm on Dexamp with DXM now which has been working well.

Oh and also its not a stimulant, its a anti-Parkinson medication which is sound like you need ahah, in all seriousness it might give your dopamine receptors a break, if you are going to try it don't take any other stims for the first two months, then start adding caffeine, that way it will work for longer, I abused caffeine from day one and I got completely tolerant fast.

 

[Lopez]

give your dopamine receptors a break

this...

 

[Dev0r]

Also to clarify things dopaminergics like cocaine (or to a lesser extent stims with a profile similar to meth-amp I have no experience with 2-fma) greatly induce tremors, so it is important to look for a pure 'functional' stim like d-amp or 2-fa.

2-FA is rougher and more intense/euphoric/dopamine-releasing than 2-fma.
2-fma is almost cleaner than dexamp

2-fa is the main metabolite from it that causes the pronounced dopaminergic lift and euphoria.

I'm on Dexamp with DXM now which has been working well.

FFS

DXM and AMPHETAMINES are a huge no-no to combines.

 

[sekio]

The answer is not to take more drugs (beta blockers, benzos)to cover up the tremor! Switching amphetamines won't do you any favours, either. All of the amphetamines, esp. the methamphetamines, are neurotoxic at high doses. MAOIs are npt the solution either, they will only exacerbate your issues in the long term.

To people who suggest 2-FMA because its "smoother": 2-fluoromethamphetamine and 2-fluoroamphetamine are every bit as bad for you as d,l-methamphetamine and d,l-amphetamine (because they are racemic). There is no evidence to suggest otherwise. And 2-FMA is active all on its own, its activity is not mostly from its metabolite.

70mg of fluoroamphetamine is far above a "theraputic" dose. (Equivalent to 70mg of racemic amphetamine, or ~50mg Adderall) Even 40mg of dexamphetamine is pushing the line.

DXM and amphetamines is a great way to end up with a hypertensive crisis. Use caution.

 

[ebola?]

2-FA is rougher and more intense/euphoric/dopamine-releasing than 2-fma.

No. SAR suggests that 2fma is more selective for dopamine than 2fa. NE/DA releasers mostly selective for NE can be pretty "intense".

2-fa is the main metabolite from it that causes the pronounced dopaminergic lift and euphoria.

n-demethylation is not prolific enough to explain much of the effects. As an analogy, notice that we don't apply this type of argument regarding meth.

And it's safe to assume MPA is equally as toxic as meth, given its structure.

Is it? It's a great deal more selective for peripheral effects, and way less potent. Wouldn't we also expect reduced BBB penetration?

ebola

 

[sekio]

I think the logP of thienylamphetamine is similar to that of regular amphetamine.

 

[ebola?]

okay. so that can't be part of its lack of potency. so reduced binding affinity has to be part of it.

ebola

 

[Dev0r]

Yeah i was going to say. 70mg is a large dose for the fluoroamphetamines.
Please be more cautious that's a skeet-skeet dose, not a therapeutic dose.


I was under the impression 2-fa was a major active metabolite of 2fma and accounted for the main part of the high considering 2fa lasts like 2-3 hours and 2fma lasts 10-12 hours. The high from the chemical would obviously be a combination of both 2fma and 2fa peaking in plasma levels at different times (or at the same time, but i feels like the 2fa kicks in harder once it metabolizes?) I mean I could be wrong, this is just what I notice from experiments and from things I have read. I also don't have too much experience with just regular ole' 2-fa. just the n-methylated version.

I honestly hate Methamphetamine, and am a fan of Dextroamphetamine and 2-FMA is much more similar to Dextro than Meth.
But as Sekio said, don't cover up your dopamine problems with more dopaminergics. but switching to safer ones is definately something that should be considered.



edit: also: I would think the possible maoi abilities of MPA, along with some of it's funky metabolites might be the cause? just a guess though.