Hallucinogens that lower blood pressure?

[Zandra]

Hey everyone. I have a couple questions about something I don't see discussed very often, and I was wondering if anyone here would know anything about this. I don't exactly have hypertension or anything but my blood pressure is normally above a healthy level because I used to be anxious all the time and also fairly sedentary and not really paying attention to my diet, though I'm currently working on all of these things. However I worry still because I used to get panic attacks and a lot of them would center around my blood pressure being too high (and obviously it shoots up during a panic attack anyway) or other similar issues. Compound that to the fact that I'm currently at a heightened risk of developing blood clots (not going to go into it, but it's not really threatening right now but still requires caution) and you'll probably understand why I have an aversion to drugs that raise blood pressure these days. I used to use a lot of stimulants, empathogens, and psychedelics before I developed these issues but now they just make me really anxious and uncomfortable and often give me tremors until I come down.

So that leaves me with this question: Does anybody know some good hallucinogens that lower or at least don't significantly change blood pressure? Maybe any psychedelics in particular that manage to lower it somehow? I really don't want to stop tripping just because of this, but it seems like the number of hallucinogens that don't raise blood pressure is remarkably small. So far I'm left with THC, synthetic cannabinoids (don't really have any interest there, the high incidence of anxiety cancels out what I'm looking for), salvinorin A, muscimol, nitrous oxide, and the hallucinogenic nonbenzodiazepines... and I don't really want to use and GABAergics anymore (besides muscimol) as they just make my anxiety worse, so those don't really count either. All in all, four useful drugs, and only two of them are known for being very fun.

Not that I'm questioning the potential of these four drugs, but I really would like to be able to expand my horizons a little bit. Can anybody help me out, or I'm pretty much just out of luck here?

Oh, and just for the record... I know psilocin and LSD won't change blood pressure much. With actual psychedelics I'd probably prefer something that legitimately lower it instead of just not raising it much though.

Thanks!

 

[daytryptr]

i dont think theres many (if any) out there that lower bp, but a general rule of thumb would be to stay away from phenethylamines if you have hypertension. That means no mescaline, 2c-x's, dox's, etc. I think ergolines like lsd are prob a bad idea as well as they are vasoconstrictive and affect adrenic receptors which is one of the main reasons psychedelics raise bp. Perhaps research into the binding affinity and affect psychedelics that are available/interest you have on those receptors.

I've never heard of any psychs that lower bp, but perhaps some kind of beta-blocker (beta adregenic receptor) with a tryptamine (no phens as it can have a paradoxical hypertensive affect) might be worthwhile. They're not too psychoactive, and i know shulgin used them on occasion with some psychedelics to help with the hypertension. Magnesium also can lower BP, and is not really psychoactive at all ime. I think your best bet is finding a psychedelic that doesn't raise BP in the first place, or not by much, and having anti-hypertensives on hand in case you notice a rise in BP. Finding a BP lowering drug that plays nice (& is safe) with the psychedelic and is not too psychoactive in its own right is the tricky part.

Really though, hypertension and psychedelics don't play well together unfortunately. I have to be careful since I'm a bit hypertensive as well, and really the only psych's i've tried that are the most benign in that regard are 4-substituted tryptamines. IE psilocin, metocin (4-ho-met), acetylpsilocin (4-aco-dmt), miprocin (4-ho-mipt), etc. The rise in BP is negligible with that family of compounds ime. All the phenethylamines i've tasted including the 2c-x's and mescaline will raise BP. 5-meo tryptamines will raise BP, any psychedelic amphetamine will raise BP. Most ergolines will raise BP by being adrenic, or indirectly though vasoconstriction. I think hydergine/nicergoline are a few exceptions, but they are nootropics and not psychedelics.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Ayahuasca might lower BP, or at least remain neutral. DMT is a bit hypertensive, but the harmala alkaloids in b. caapi are fairly hypotensive IIRC, so they might cancel each other out.

 

[sekio]

Serotonin (as its name implies) has quite a bit of influence on blood pressure. And most phenethylamines also have activity at the alpha/beta adrenoreceptors.

Selective chemicals like LSD, 25X-NBOMe, etc are probably best. Any wide spectrum serotonin agonist (all the tryptamines, phenethylamines etc) are liable to fuck with blood pressure in vague and nonspecific but dose-related ways.

 

[immad]

Since when is LSD a selective chemical?

 

[cannibalsnail]

It has a lot of other pharmacological activity but it is still very selective for 2A.

No psychedelic will lower blood pressure. Vasoconstriction is intrinsic to their mechanism.

 

[Zandra]

i dont think theres many (if any) out there that lower bp, but a general rule of thumb would be to stay away from phenethylamines if you have hypertension. That means no mescaline, 2c-x's, dox's, etc. I think ergolines like lsd are prob a bad idea as well as they are vasoconstrictive and affect adrenic receptors which is one of the main reasons psychedelics raise bp. Perhaps research into the binding affinity and affect psychedelics that are available/interest you have on those receptors.

I've never heard of any psychs that lower bp, but perhaps some kind of beta-blocker (beta adregenic receptor) with a tryptamine (no phens as it can have a paradoxical hypertensive affect) might be worthwhile. They're not too psychoactive, and i know shulgin used them on occasion with some psychedelics to help with the hypertension. Magnesium also can lower BP, and is not really psychoactive at all ime. I think your best bet is finding a psychedelic that doesn't raise BP in the first place, or not by much, and having anti-hypertensives on hand in case you notice a rise in BP. Finding a BP lowering drug that plays nice (& is safe) with the psychedelic and is not too psychoactive in its own right is the tricky part.

Really though, hypertension and psychedelics don't play well together unfortunately. I have to be careful since I'm a bit hypertensive as well, and really the only psych's i've tried that are the most benign in that regard are 4-substituted tryptamines. IE psilocin, metocin (4-ho-met), acetylpsilocin (4-aco-dmt), miprocin (4-ho-mipt), etc. The rise in BP is negligible with that family of compounds ime. All the phenethylamines i've tasted including the 2c-x's and mescaline will raise BP. 5-meo tryptamines will raise BP, any psychedelic amphetamine will raise BP. Most ergolines will raise BP by being adrenic, or indirectly though vasoconstriction. I think hydergine/nicergoline are a few exceptions, but they are nootropics and not psychedelics.

I never thought about beta blockers.... I may actually be able to get one on a consistent basis. Thanks for the advice! I'll keep it in mind. I may just end up sticking with the 4-substituted tryptamines and beta blockers then, if I have to. It certainly wouldn't be the end of the world to have to limit myself to only that class of psychedelics, I have overdone the lysergamides and phenethylamines a bit.

Ayahuasca might lower BP, or at least remain neutral. DMT is a bit hypertensive, but the harmala alkaloids in b. caapi are fairly hypotensive IIRC, so they might cancel each other out.

Oh, I forgot about the harmalas.... I could use those even without the DMT, though of course together would be nice too. The problem is that I can't use MAOIs right now, but that won't last forever. Thanks for the advice.

Serotonin (as its name implies) has quite a bit of influence on blood pressure. And most phenethylamines also have activity at the alpha/beta adrenoreceptors.

Selective chemicals like LSD, 25X-NBOMe, etc are probably best. Any wide spectrum serotonin agonist (all the tryptamines, phenethylamines etc) are liable to fuck with blood pressure in vague and nonspecific but dose-related ways.

Serotonin's name implies that? :O *research* Hmm... you learn something new every day lol. Don't the NBOMes have the potential to cause convulsions and stuff in overdose though? I always assumed they likely considerably raised blood pressure....

No psychedelic will lower blood pressure. Vasoconstriction is intrinsic to their mechanism.

I know that none will through 5-HT2A receptors, but I was thinking it's possible that some other random receptor affinity might reverse it. I can see how it wouldn't be likely, though.